AR Sponsor
Posted: 3/9/2011 5:21:50 PM EDT
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I have a Professional Ordinance Carbon 15 rifle that although it functions fine, isn't giving me the accuracy I'm looking for. I'm getting from 1" to 3" groups at 50 yards with it, and there doesnot appear to be parts available for the rifle.
I'm considering either building another AR 15 or buying one. I like the S&W M&P 15 MOE and can get one for around $1000 and after adding up parts, there doesn't seem to be much if any cost savings by building my own. I have a few specific ideas. I would like to have a 223 that will shoot under an inch at 100 yards, maybe even 1/2". Is that a realistic expectation for an off the shelf rifle? I am assuming a heavier barrel would help as well as a free floating handguard. Maybe a longer barrel as well? Does going from a carbine size handguard to a mid size help by moving the gas block closer to the muzzle therefore helping accuracy? Is there part tolerance benifits to buying the same brand upper and lower receivers? Been reading and learning, but haven't decided which way to go yet. Assembling a rifle doesn't apear to be anything I can't handle with a few additional tools. Thanks for you help. Shane |
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Quoted:
<snip> I have a few specific ideas. I would like to have a 223 that will shoot under an inch at 100 yards, maybe even 1/2". Is that a realistic expectation for an off the shelf rifle? Not unless it's top end like a LaRue. I am assuming a heavier barrel would help as well as a free floating handguard. True. Maybe a longer barrel as well? True to a degree. Does going from a carbine size handguard to a mid size help by moving the gas block closer to the muzzle therefore helping accuracy? I think you mean gas system, not handguard and the answer is no. Is there part tolerance benifits to buying the same brand upper and lower receivers? In theory, no but I keep everything same:same when I can. Been reading and learning, but haven't decided which way to go yet. Assembling a rifle doesn't apear to be anything I can't handle with a few additional tools. Building is amazingly easy but there are some deals out there right now (BCM and Smartgunner come to mind) that are hard to beat...unless you want an unusual configuration they don't offer. Thanks for you help. Shane |
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Are you capable of shooting sub MOA? What type of glass do you have on there? What type of trigger? What type of rest setup are you using?
There are very few people out there who are actually capable of shooting sub MOA without a specific benchrest set up... regardless of what they say online. I vote more practice. |
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Quoted:
Are you capable of shooting sub MOA? What type of glass do you have on there? What type of trigger? What type of rest setup are you using? There are very few people out there who are actually capable of shooting sub MOA without a specific benchrest set up... regardless of what they say online. I vote more practice. Lighten up, Francis! 
It was his (her?) first post; s/he doesn't even have the rifle, yet. Besides, all those things you said are givens. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Are you capable of shooting sub MOA? What type of glass do you have on there? What type of trigger? What type of rest setup are you using? There are very few people out there who are actually capable of shooting sub MOA without a specific benchrest set up... regardless of what they say online. I vote more practice. Lighten up, Francis!
It was his (her?) first post; s/he doesn't even have the rifle, yet. Besides, all those things you said are givens. No, he said he HAS a rifle, and it is not giving him the accuracy he WANTS. I merely am saying that it is silly to buy/build a new rifle to gain "accuracy" when 9 times out of ten the shooter is the weak link in the equation. Without gaining the level of certainty that the rifle he already has IS the weak link... then he is going to spend all of that money on another rifle... and still be shooting lousy. A great rifle won't make a weak shooter better... And im not saying he is a weak shooter... but the possibility should be considered. |
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Heh,you're right about few ppl being capable of sub MOA,I do it off a bench when the rifle can though.
I had a mini14 that would shoot about MOA,just shoot it once,then let it sit for 15 minutes and shoot it again,it took forever,but it would do it... I'm interested in what you folks have to say about accuracy,being new to AR15 type rifles myself. -Lee |
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I agree completely about the shooter factor. I am not new to shooting and have several rifles that I have shot some 3/8"-1/2" groups with at 100 yards. With my Carbon AR, I am having trouble holding 3" groups at 50 yards from a solid rest. I have tried several different ammo, letting the barrel completely cool, different scope, and shooting w/o the muzzle brake w/ only minimal gains in accuracy. The trigger was #10, but now is down to 3.5#'s and very nice, just like some of my bolt guns. I haven't ruled out the other rifle, but have been thinking about building one. Just wondered what to expect from an off the shelf rifle such as the S&W M&P15. I would very much like to build one, but won't be for awhile yet.
Thanks for the reply's. One more question, is it reasonable to expect (By taking my time and assembling things carefully and buying quality components) a first time built rifle to be accurate and reliable? I realize that is a broad question. Some suggestions are I'd be better off buying a complete rifles. For some reason, I've been more interested in the AR15's as lately. Shane |
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I'd recommend a 'practice' build, but it's not mandatory. AR build is not rocket science, but not paint by numbers either - especially for the accuracy OP seeks. I am assuming a heavier barrel would help as well as a free floating handguard. Maybe a longer barrel as well? Yeah, both are supposed to help. Does going from a carbine size handguard to a mid size help by moving the gas block closer to the muzzle therefore helping accuracy? Actually, it just increases the sight picture - further apart sights are technically the better the alignment when aiming. Or something like that : ) I use Eotech, can't shoot AR irons for jack. Nothing aided my AR accuracy more that that little thing. Is there part tolerance benifits to buying the same brand upper and lower receivers? Yes. Mega makes a nice stripped matched pair but totally up to you. Go for the build, take your time and get to really know / understand the AR15 - the money is a wash at best. Custom builds are not worth what they cost to build, but you're not going to sell it so it's worth it. Use the right tools, practice, hand tighten, check your work, etc, etc, etc before locking things down. Don't just start wrenching and pounding.  |
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Good ideas. Guess I worded my question wrong. What I was thinking of with the gas block question was if moving the gas escape hole closer to the end of the barrel would let the bullet be on it's way alitle sooner before the action starts to move, therefore affecting the shot. Thought I read that but maybe it was for the design of the M1 Garand. I didn't do the best wording with that question, sorry.
Resale isn't really a concern since I've never sold a gun before. At this point, I'm thinking 18" heavy barrel, mid length system, and a free floated handguard w/ rail mounts. The MOE buttstock and grip in flat dark earth color. I would like both open sights and a scope on the rifle. Don't have a real need or use in mind, it just bothers me that my current AR doesn't shoot as good as I think it should. Target shooting and varmit hunting I would think. Thanks again |
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That is also true of the middy, I had one once. They do cycle smooth, not really sure it actually helped anything though. Can't say anything bad except for back then MOE hand guards only came in carbine. Picture may be better - rifle on right was a build. Very accurate with 55 - 62gr. 16" Colt Hbar 1/9 turned down to .650, left .750 under FSB on Mega U/L and Colt BCG, AR Stoner all stainless LPK. Left is my Colt 6520 (can't shoot irons for dick but my rifle is A2 carbine) - has 1/7 and works best with 64gr. Very accurate w/ Eotech. Tried a 16" middy, 20", 24" Bull - but these 2 proved to be the best (to me). Have a pistol setup with carbon fiber free float, very nice. Pondering dropping one on my custom. Astigmatism really prevents me from getting the most out of magnified scopes - so my experience will likely be different. Long story short, there is no single answer. Building an AR that satisfies the builder can be a lengthy and expensive process*. Lot's of fun though, and educational. Best I can say is start with the lower *ETA - which is really no different than trying to buy one.  |
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