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Posted: 3/31/2009 3:44:28 PM EDT
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First of all, it's my first post, and I'm glad to be part of the forum. From what I've seen, it looks to be a great resource. Now, on to the meat...
I've wanted an M-4 for a while, and recently have begun planning out building one. Here's a parts list that I've made from looking at prices and quality reviews here and elsewhere. Basically the goal is to replicate this: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a7/M4A1_ACOG.jpg The sight is a little out of my price range for now, so I'm going with a bolt-on handle with rear sight to hold its place on the flat-top upper receiver until I can afford one. The list: JTD 14.5" SBR Kit............................$688...http://jtdistributing.net/store/more_k_c16k.html#181 ...1x7 Chrome-lined barrel ...6-Pos. DS-4 Stock ...No Bipod ...Flattop Upper ...Forged front sight base ...CAR Handguard ...Chrome Bolt Carrier Assy ...Standard Charging Handle ...Standard Lower Kit ...Ergo Grip ...Black ...A-2 Flash Hider Grip Vertical Foregrip AAC Swiss............$25.....http://jtdistributing.net/store/more_aac101.html DSC 30rnd and 20rnd mags: ................$33.....http://jtdistributing.net/store/magazines.html UTG Detachable Carry Handle w/ sight:...$40......http://www.botachtactical.com/mosyarcaha1.html UTG Quad Rail Handguard...................$50......http://www.botachtactical.com/msquraha.html Essential Arms TC Lower Receiver..........$105....http://www.essentialarms.com/LOWERSANDPARTS.HTML TOTAL: $941 (plus $200 SBR tax  )
I know the UTG stuff gets bashed a lot on here, but from what I've seen, it will work perfectly for what I will use the rifle for, and fits my budget. I'm not putting my life in the hands of this gun, it's just for plinking. So, any suggestions on different parts, or a different place to get them? Thanks for the help guys. I don't want to break the bank on this one, but at the same time I want a quality firearm that I won't be disappointed with, and one that shoots well. 
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I would consider a 1:9 twist barrel unless you plan on shooting 68 or 75 grain HPBT exclusively through a 1:7 twist. With a 1:7 twist you will not get great accuracy out of 50-62 grain bullets and you will not be able to Save $ by buying surplus whether you reload or not.
JT Distributing and Doublestar are subsidiaries and I'm not fond of Doublestar after buying my first LPK . IMO I would go with Stag, Bushmaster or DPMS even Armalite or Olympic Arms before Doublestar/JT. Get a good parts kit from the list of Manufacturers above. Consider buying some parts off the Equipment Exchange-I would purchase the carry handle(get a brand name Cardinal Forge etc) and a used or like new two piece 4 rail picatinny handguard (Yanke Hill, MI, Etc) off the EE as well. Forget UTG it's not milspec or even close. Consider going with a standard rather than a chrome BCG and buy more mags like 15-20 at the cheapest price you can find them. Also continue to look on the EE for a complete upper at a great price and save some more money for mags and ammo. I would get the LOWER and start building that ASAP. Next Step get a complete upper. Last step Accessorize( you can always get the hanguard and VFG later, but maybe not the rifle or hi capacity mags). 
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I have used several J&T kits, they worked just fine, I did restake one of the carriers though. It wasn't loose, it just looked like it needed a heavier staking. The biggest complaint I had about the kit was the selector on the LPK was pretty roughly cut. Otherwise, everything worked fine.
I have also used a DelTon kit and the LPK looked nicer, though the upper colors were more closely matched when comparing the anodized reciever to the parkerized dust cover. It does work well though. Delton is heavily back ordered so they probably won't be available for awhile. I'm not sure of J&T's status though. Make sure you have your paperwork back for the SBR lower before you get the 14.5" upper. You dont need a charge for constructive intent on your record. I would definately skip the UTG rail. Spend a few bucks extra to get something nicer. If your looking to save some money you don't have to have a chrome lined barrel. You aren't in the jungles of africa and the barrels work fine without the chrome lining. I don't bother with it on mine because I feel the non chrome lined barrels are a little more accurate. Besides the $50 you'll save could be put towards a nicer rail. |
| Thanks for the comments guys. Since the J&T kit comes with a handguard, I think I'll just nix the entire front rail and foregrip for now. Later on I can get a quality piece when I both have more money and more knowledge on what I want to get, and what I want out of the rifle. For the handle, I really like the look of the handle. I would just get one built into the upper receiver, but I want the option of going with a BUIS and red dot sight in the future. Anyway, the flattop receiver with a bolt-on handle is a $85 option from J&T. If the quality difference between that and the same thing from UTG is really that great, it would be a good use of $45 in the build. |
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Quoted:
Thanks for the comments guys. Since the J&T kit comes with a handguard, I think I'll just nix the entire front rail and foregrip for now. Later on I can get a quality piece when I both have more money and more knowledge on what I want to get, and what I want out of the rifle. For the handle, I really like the look of the handle. I would just get one built into the upper receiver, but I want the option of going with a BUIS and red dot sight in the future. Anyway, the flattop receiver with a bolt-on handle is a $85 option from J&T. If the quality difference between that and the same thing from UTG is really that great, it would be a good use of $45 in the build. I would skip all UTG stuff and youve got the right idea about making this process slow. Keep the rifle pretty standard until you can afford the real stuff. You will not regret it. |
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Quoted:
I would consider a 1:9 twist barrel unless you plan on shooting 68 or 75 grain HPBT exclusively through a 1:7 twist. With a 1:7 twist you will not get great accuracy out of 50-62 grain bullets and you will not be able to Save $ by buying surplus whether you reload or not. JT Distributing and Doublestar are subsidiaries and I'm not fond of Doublestar after buying my first LPK . IMO I would go with Stag, Bushmaster or DPMS even Armalite or Olympic Arms before Doublestar/JT. Get a good parts kit from the list of Manufacturers above. Consider buying some parts off the Equipment Exchange-I would purchase the carry handle(get a brand name Cardinal Forge etc) and a used or like new two piece 4 rail picatinny handguard (Yanke Hill, MI, Etc) off the EE as well. Forget UTG it's not milspec or even close. Consider going with a standard rather than a chrome BCG and buy more mags like 15-20 at the cheapest price you can find them. Also continue to look on the EE for a complete upper at a great price and save some more money for mags and ammo. I would get the LOWER and start building that ASAP. Next Step get a complete upper. Last step Accessorize( you can always get the hanguard and VFG later, but maybe not the rifle or hi capacity mags).
If you had a problem with JT/Doublestar, then call them. They will eagerly fix any problem you had with your LPK. |
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Jtd are great people to deal with, and I've never had a problem with any of their items.
The utg stuff, not my cup of tea, but a freind has their handguard rails, double liners, no noise, that gun has been beat around in his truck, and the handguards are still fine. |
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From what I've read in my lurking here, it seems like everyone who owns UTG parts is happy with them, but everyone who has top-dollar accessories bashes them. Whatever, I'm not going to start a debate thread, and I'm going to hold off on any accessorizing for now. My main hobby is modifying my car, so I definitely know how frustrating cheaply made parts can be. I saw a good saying in someone's signature here, and it really is true: Buy nice parts, cry once. Buy cheap parts, cry twice.
As far as the barrel goes, I guess I got confused. I thought 1x7 would shoot anything, but 1x9 was more accurate for the ammo it does shoot, but you're limited in selection. I definitely want the more versatile one, which I guess is the 1x9 if I got them backwards. With the whole SBR thing, can I order the J&T parts kit before doing the paperwork if I don't have a lower receiver? It can't be intent to construct if I don't own a lower receiver, right? Maybe that's just me trying to make laws make sense, silly me! Again, thanks for the input guys. I love forums. |
Well after much soul searching and AR15.com searching  , I placed the order with J&T today. Basic 16" CAR kit. Only upgrades were a flattop receiver with handle and an ERGO RH grip. Decided to go with the 16" to save about $250 off of a 14.5" version (including $200 fee), as well as being able to buy it NOW instead of waiting for the paperwork to go through. I'll order the stripped lower from Essential Arms as soon as I find a FFL to ship it to, Total spent should be around $750 Thanks for the advice guys.
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just for plinking?
1:9 twist. forget the chrome bcg. you will wait a long time for a complete upper. Piece your gun together. it is easy and gives you a sense of accomplishment and you will not regret the cost savings. Forget all the awsome "name brands". I also am building the same thing in 16.5" currently. Essential arms is an excellent choice, although i don,t know if the tc is necessary. Save your hard earned money on the carry handle and get a rear flip up sight. bravo company will send an assembled upper in about 5 days. ive already ordered 2. use your funds on milspec mags and ammo. my ea lower and bravo company upper finishes match perfectly. 4 position stock is all that is necessary. I will have about 720 in mine. just my 2 cent worth. |
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just for plinking? 1:9 twist. forget the chrome bcg. you will wait a long time for a complete upper. Piece your gun together. it is easy and gives you a sense of accomplishment and you will not regret the cost savings. Forget all the awsome "name brands". I also am building the same thing in 16.5" currently. Essential arms is an excellent choice, although i don,t know if the tc is necessary. Save your hard earned money on the carry handle and get a rear flip up sight. bravo company will send an assembled upper in about 5 days. ive already ordered 2. use your funds on milspec mags and ammo. my ea lower and bravo company upper finishes match perfectly. 4 position stock is all that is necessary. I will have about 720 in mine. just my 2 cent worth. That's basically what I'm doing; build is updated on my last post. And yes, just for plinking. I've spent many hours searching out the best prices on individual parts and parts kits, and I can't get a full-gun price below about $850. The kit from J&T with identical components, combined with 3 mags and the EA receiver, is $755. So unless I'm just getting the worst prices ever, the kit looks like the best deal. I have no problem assembling everything myself; actually, I would prefer it. I would enjoy getting to know the weapon that much better. Also, as far as the handle goes, that's just an aesthetic choice on my part. Ideally I'd like a full M4gery, but I'm going with the 16" barrel to avoid the whole SBR PITA. Concerning the TC on the lower receiver, it's $5 extra on a $100 part, so I figure it can't hurt. Here's the full build now: J&T 16" CAR Kit......................................................$605........http://jtdistributing.net/store/more_k_c16k.html 6-Pos. DS-4 Stock No Bipod Flat-top Upper w/ Carry-handle Forged front sight base CAR Handguard Standard Bolt Carrier Assy Standard Charging Handle Standard Lower Kit Ergo RH Sure Grip Black A-2 Flash Hider Lightweight barrel DSC 30rnd mag x3..................................................$45..........http://jtdistributing.net/store/magazines.html Essential Arms TC Lower Receiver................................$105........http://www.essentialarms.com/LOWERSANDPARTS.HTML TOTAL: $755 And here's my latest attempt at a parts build: Stripped flat-top upper receiver.............................$94......http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/Upper-Receiver-Flat-Top-Stripped-p/flat%20top%20upper1%20strip.htm Ejection port cover assembly.................................$10......http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/AR15-Ejection-Port-Cover-Assembly-p/ejection%20port%20cover%20assembly.htm Forward assist assembly......................................$13......http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/AR15-Forward-Assist-Assembly-p/fwd%20assist%20assembly.htm J&T Bolt Assembly..............................................$50......http://www.jtdistributing.net/store/more_ar110.html J&T Carrier Assembly..........................................$55......http://www.jtdistributing.net/store/more_accy_bc.html BCM charging handle...........................................$24......http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/AR15-Charging-Handle-BCM-p/bcm%20charging%20handle%20ar15.htm J&T 16" M4 barrel 1/9.........................................$190......http://www.jtdistributing.net/store/more_ar550.html J&T Lower parts kit.............................................$60......http://www.jtdistributing.net/store/more_ar270.html ERGO suregrip...................................................$20......http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/Ergo-SureGrip-Black-p/pistol%20grip%20ergo%20sg%20black.htm BCM M4 Handguard.............................................$23......http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/M4-Handguards-Black-p/bcm%20handguards%20m4%20black.htm BCM M4 stock kit.................................................$75......http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/M4-Stock-Milspec-p/stock%20m4%20milspec%20black.htm D&H 30rnd mag x3..............................................$42......http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/AR-15-Magazines-p/magazines%20dh%20bt30mf.htm Essential Arms TC Lower Receiver...........................$105......http://www.essentialarms.com/LOWERSANDPARTS.HTML Detachable carrying handle....................................$95......http://jtdistributing.net/store/more_ar783.html TOTAL: $856 |
| yea, i couldnt tell ya how the tc will match the upper finish, thats what i was thinkin. You can get it all at EA, except for the barrel, good product, ive heard great reviews. Also check on the assembled a3 upper with m4 feedramps at bravocompany -$109. cheaper than you building it. you better start ordering now, although things seem to be getting easier to get, ya never know. I'm just waiting on my barrel and handguards from model 1 sales, ordered about two weeks ago and they told me 6-8 weeks. Kits will take forever right now. buy parts when possible, they ship sooner. good luck. |
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