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Posted: 3/14/2009 6:07:11 AM EDT
| Can someone explain the advantages of a FF handguard (whether mid-lenth or CAR) on a carbine length rifle? I understand the advantages on longer barrels as they pertain to accuracy, but I'm not certain I can see big payoff on shorter battle rifles. What am I missing? |
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Repeat after me, "Barrel length has nothing to do with accuracy."  Do it 100 more times. So, the advantages of a FF tube on a long barrel all apply on a shorter barrel too. Also, FF tubes/rails tend to be pretty solid. The standard HG's are loose and rattly.Got it! However, my point was not that a 16" is somehow less inherently accurate. My question might have been better put: Since a carbine length rifle is not typically used for attempting to reduce group sizes by another ¼”; and, if it is my intention to build a CQB rifle; does it make sense to invest in a FF? Your other point about eliminating rattles and the loose nature of standard handguards is well taken and makes a lot of sense. |
Oh, in that case, how much do you have to spend and how tactocool do you want to be?  I would say that in 90% of the guns here the FF or rails are strictly for appearances sake. If all you want on your fore end is a small light such as the M3 or X300 a small bolt on rail is perfectly adequate. Once you start mounting VFG's, lasers, or heavier lights you'll want a real rail system. IMHO non-free float rails are weak. You're already spending the money, so you may as well get the benefits of FF as well.
A light contour 14.5" middy with a pinned Phantom, standard HG's with an X300 on a small rail section, and an Aimpoint or good irons would make a super sweet CQB setup. |
| I went through the same thing. All I'd ever put on it would be a small light, so I bought a set of standard handguards (Cav Arms that sold for $10) . I like them just fine and am mounting the light with a GG&G slic thing on the front sight base. I don't care for a VFG at all, so mine is GTG. I am not sure that free floating handguards is really an accuracy enhancer unless you are hanging a lot of stuff on the barrel. Then it might have an effect on changing point of impact. Mine will do 1 MOA as is with good handloads. Haven't shot any factory ammo through it yet. |
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Quoted:
Repeat after me, "Barrel length has nothing to do with accuracy." Do it 100 more times. So, the advantages of a FF tube on a long barrel all apply on a shorter barrel too. Also, FF tubes/rails tend to be pretty solid. The standard HG's are loose and rattly.I thought barrel length has a lot to do with accuracy? Am I missing something? |
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Repeat after me, "Barrel length has nothing to do with accuracy." Do it 100 more times. So, the advantages of a FF tube on a long barrel all apply on a shorter barrel too. Also, FF tubes/rails tend to be pretty solid. The standard HG's are loose and rattly.I thought barrel length has a lot to do with accuracy? Am I missing something? It does have at least some to do with it. All things being equal, a longer barrel is less accurate than a shorter one. Chew on that 
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Repeat after me, "Barrel length has nothing to do with accuracy." Do it 100 more times. So, the advantages of a FF tube on a long barrel all apply on a shorter barrel too. Also, FF tubes/rails tend to be pretty solid. The standard HG's are loose and rattly.I thought barrel length has a lot to do with accuracy? Am I missing something? It does have at least some to do with it. All things being equal, a longer barrel is less accurate than a shorter one. Chew on that OK, I'm going to make a guess here, a longer barrel means the bullet spends more time in the barrel. More time in the barrel means the burning propellant has more time to accelerate the bullet up to a higher muzzle velocity. A higher muzzle velocity means a flatter trajectory. A flatter trajectory does NOT mean more accurate. BUT, a novice with bad sights, improperly zeroed sights OR no trajectory correction on the sights will hit closer to the target than using a rifle with a more parabolic trajectory. How well a barrel is made, usually how uniform the bore/rifling is, as well as the bullets and primer/propellant, especially how uniform those are, will determine how CONSISTENT the trajectory will be. A CONSISTENT trajectory means more REPEATABLE and REPEATABLE means being able to sight in the rifle to hit a target and REPEAT that more often. More muzzle velocity/flatter trajectory CAN mean just missing the target faster. A longer poor quality barrel can be shamed by a higher quality short barrel in the hands of a marksmen that knows how to use it. A higher quality Barrel and Rounds, means CONSISTENT and REPEATABLE trajectories, that a good MARKSMAN prefers because he knows how set up his sights for the trajectory. To SUM UP: *A longer barrel means more muzzle velocity/flatter trajectory. *A flatter trajectory has it advantages, one of many being the ability to give someone that has no idea what they are doing and NOT correcting for wind/range the ability to hit closer to the target even though he may have huge groups, THAT is NOT MORE ACCURACY. *The Quality of the barrel and rounds, determine how consistent and repeatable the trajectories will be, i.e. how small or big the groups will be. *Once you have consistent/repeatable tracjectories, i.e. small groups, someone that know what they are doing can setup their sights for wind/range to correct for the trajectory and hit the target consistently, THAT IS ACCURACY. *Picking a barrel length would probably have more to do with the desired trajectory for the type or range of shooting someone is doing. I'm a newb, that is very mechanically inclined and good with science, SO please take the word of an expert over my somewhat scientific guesses. BTW, is it just me, BUT, do Pistol AR's (7in barrels) seem to waste half the propellant for a shot in a fireworks show of a huge flash, because the bullet has left the barrel before the propellant has finished burning? NOT judging pistol AR owners, heck I have a golf ball launcher, which I'm sure some people would say is GAY; I'm just wondering. |
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Repeat after me, "Barrel length has nothing to do with accuracy." Do it 100 more times. So, the advantages of a FF tube on a long barrel all apply on a shorter barrel too. Also, FF tubes/rails tend to be pretty solid. The standard HG's are loose and rattly.I thought barrel length has a lot to do with accuracy? Am I missing something? It does have at least some to do with it. All things being equal, a longer barrel is less accurate than a shorter one. Chew on that OK, I'm going to make a guess here, a longer barrel means the bullet spends more time in the barrel. More time in the barrel means the burning propellant has more time to accelerate the bullet up to a higher muzzle velocity. A higher muzzle velocity means a flatter trajectory. A flatter trajectory does NOT mean more accurate. BUT, a novice with bad sights, improperly zeroed sights OR no trajectory correction on the sights will hit closer to the target than using a rifle with a more parabolic trajectory. How well a barrel is made, usually how uniform the bore/rifling is, as well as the bullets and primer/propellant, especially how uniform those are, will determine how CONSISTENT the trajectory will be. A CONSISTENT trajectory means more REPEATABLE and REPEATABLE means being able to sight in the rifle to hit a target and REPEAT that more often. More muzzle velocity/flatter trajectory CAN mean just missing the target faster. A longer poor quality barrel can be shamed by a higher quality short barrel in the hands of a marksmen that knows how to use it. A higher quality Barrel and Rounds, means CONSISTENT and REPEATABLE trajectories, that a good MARKSMAN prefers because he knows how set up his sights for the trajectory. To SUM UP: *A longer barrel means more muzzle velocity/flatter trajectory. *A flatter trajectory has it advantages, one of many being the ability to give someone that has no idea what they are doing and NOT correcting for wind/range the ability to hit closer to the target even though he may have huge groups, THAT is NOT MORE ACCURACY. *The Quality of the barrel and rounds, determine how consistent and repeatable the trajectories will be, i.e. how small or big the groups will be. *Once you have consistent/repeatable tracjectories, i.e. small groups, someone that know what they are doing can setup their sights for wind/range to correct for the trajectory and hit the target consistently, THAT IS ACCURACY. *Picking a barrel length would probably have more to do with the desired trajectory for the type or range of shooting someone is doing. I'm a newb, that is very mechanically inclined and good with science, SO please take the word of an expert over my somewhat scientific guesses. BTW, is it just me, BUT, do Pistol AR's (7in barrels) seem to waste half the propellant for a shot in a fireworks show of a huge flash, because the bullet has left the barrel before the propellant has finished burning? NOT judging pistol AR owners, heck I have a golf ball launcher, which I'm sure some people would say is GAY; I'm just wondering. I will make the explanation short and sweet. Here is why: As you increase diameter, barrel rigidity rises to the 4th power of the increase. But if you lengthen a barrel, stiffness declines in proportion to the cube of the length. What that means, if you distill them fancy terms, is that a barrel that weighs say...4# and is 18" long would end up weighing a whole lot more to be just as rigid at 24" Also, the more rigid/thicker the barrel is, the less it is going to ring like a bell when that bullet hits the rifling, which normally induces a oval/circular whipping motion of the barrel, if seen in slow-motion and in detail. Also, common sense...A "perfect" 18" hole drilled in a piece of steel is easier to accomplish than a perfect 24" deep hole. Those 6" are just 6 more inches for a mistake to be made in or an imperfection to occur. |
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[NOT judging pistol AR owners, heck I have a golf ball launcher, which I'm sure some people would say is GAY; I'm just wondering. Can you im me the plans for this?!? 
I'm just enough of a newb to think for a moment you weren't being sarcastic. I haven't used it yet, still haven't gotten any blanks. Well,  I also haven't put my rifle together either, that might be more important than having blanks on hand, I'm still waiting for my Troy TRX Battle Rail to come in.
12_gauge, I see what you were getting at now, makes perfect sense to me. I am correct though, unless the barrel gets too long, usually a longer barrel means a higher muzzle velocity. Flatter trajectories I'm sure is case of beer debate or more on the virtues and the effects on accuracy. |
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