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Posted: 2/15/2009 6:52:18 AM EDT
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I see quite a few folks using the several hundred dollar "name brand" rails and optics, and such.
How are these "name brands" any better? It's like COLT vs anything else. Name brand recognition. Right? |
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I'm a pretty cheap guy... strictly because I don't have that much money, but in the AR world I have found that there are very few exceptions to the "you get what you pay for" rule. I would say that if you can't afford the better one it's not really worth it. Some of the really nice stuff isn't worth it to me though, but I leave the gun in original (do without) vs putting junk on it.
There are a lot of products that are absolute JUNK out there but I will give you some decent shortcuts I have found Just don't put rails on your rifles... the number of rifles I see on this site with a $200 dollar set of free float forearm rails with nothing but $50 worth of rail covers amazes me, nothing wrong with a standard pair of handguards You can have a decent light for home defense for about $50-$100 (surefire G2/G2L + FOBUS mount + small piece of rail attached somewhere) The small red dots in the $100-$150 range in a normal pair of rings lock-tighted on, are fine for a range plinker I wouldn't want them on a gun my life depended on. Stay well clear of red dots cheaper than that A "decent variable scope" in a Armalite or Model 1 single mount can be OK vs a $1000 scope in a Larue mount, but you do lose some nice features like mil dots, CQB reticles the ability to take it off and retain zero the IDF sling for $18 is really freaking sweet I put every add on to my rifle to the "is it worth the equivalent amount of ammo" test. I can't believe the number of people on this site that have over $1000 worth of shit attached to there rifles that have less than $1000 dollars worth of ammo through them. |
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Its no different than anything else. You can walk around the mall just as well with a cheap pair of sneakers from Payless as you can with top of the line running shoes.
Of course, the guy running a marathon who is trying to beat his best time understands why the good shoes are more expensive, and they are certainly worth it to him. It just boils down to what you plan on using your gun for. If you just want an AR because you think they look cool, and you arent going to practice much or be a very good shot anyways, you may as well save your money and buy a cheap parts kit. If you are going to use your gun for competition, on patrol, etc. then you obviously are going to be looking for something else. I guess for most people, if you have to ask why brand XXX is better, then you probably dont need it, but that doesnt mean someone else doesnt. |
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To be as honest and as nice as possible with this subject;
I think that the "average" guy may be fine with cheapy YHM rails over DD or LT rails costing 3 times as much. Average guy might go to the range once a month and blast off a couple hundred rounds and head home. I actually think that is more than most of the average AR owners do and definitely more than most here. So some higher dollar rail is not needed. If you were shooting competition or doing Mil/LEA training or training like them, then you MAY see the advantages of a better made rail. Sights are a different matter to me. Cheap China junk may break on you if you accidentally drop the rifle or may break for no reason. Good stuff has a record of working and if they DO break the manufacturers take care of you. Buy once and forget junk optics or learn to shoot irons. |
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The typical “My XXX brand AR / Accessory is better than your XXX brand AR / Accessory ” thread. This discussion has been brought up many, many times, and usually ends up getting locked. Play nice boys..........I'll be watching.  I actually wasn't looking for an argument, or bragging rights, Mr Quib. I just find that I can have good results from moderately priced equipment. I , like Curahee, am a pretty cheap guy. I like to maximize performance with minimum investment. |
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I actually wasn't looking for an argument, or bragging rights, Mr Quib. I’m well aware of that. If I thought you were trying to stir up shit I would have deleted the thread from the beginning. I'm actually try to do you a favor.......... What I’m doing is simply letting folks know that I will not tolerate the bickering that these threads usually end up generating. |
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If you buy cheap and dont use it, you will never know how cheap it is.. R This is one of those topics where people get easily offended. And I will not ridicule a man for his choice in weapons or accessories, we all have different personal requirements. And we all use our weapons for different purposes. But your comment is very true. If you do not test your gear, then you will never know if it can be counted on to function when you need it most. |
Probably the area MOST likely to show a difference between "cheap" and "high end" is optics.You don't have to be a pro or bounce it off a wall to tell the diff when you look thru cheap optics.My advice would be to go for the BEST optics you can afford from the start, then save up and buy the other goodies later as you think you'll need them; such as rails, grips,lights,iron sights, etc. That and MUCHO practice ( key: buy ammo) will give you the highest value in any firearm, no matter what the intended purpose.They may be toys or tools depending on how you use them/ look at them, but bottom line is they're fun or most of us would be in another hobby if we didn't like them.That said, welcome to this site, tons of good people here and LOADS of info.Read, shoot, build and you'll surprise yourself with what can be gained....
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I've spent a horrendous amount of money in this arena in the past few years.
I've bought everything from cheap ChiCom airsoft knockoff stuff to extreme high end and/or one-off parts made for me by major manufacturers. I no longer buy the cheap stuff, and it really has nothing to do with cost any more. I am working on my masters degree, work part time making $10.50 an hour. I will save up and wait to buy quality parts and I advise others to do the same. |
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My question was "how" or "why" are the name brands better? Simple as that. Tell me why a $300 dollar rail is better for optics, VFG's, lasers, or bi-pods or whatever. I mean, a picatinny rail is a picatinny rail, right? So I'm asking is it workmanship? Materials? Quality control? Milling tolerances? Is a La Rue or Daniel Defense rail actually better than a YHM? If so, why?
I don't give a hoot what people have on their rifles. I don't give a hoot how much someone paid for a piece of gear. I WANT TO KNOW WHY IT IS BETTER. In someone's best opinion. I totally agree that optics is no place to scrimp. I have a cheap NC STAR scope and it doesn't compare to the much nicer Burris I have. but what about other stuff. rails, bi-pods, scope mounts, etc.? |
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I have Knight Armament rails that I actually had on my M-4 in Iraq. They were issued to me. The cost about 150 or so bucks to buy. Not to mention the rail covers and handle. I found that they were wiggly and loose all the time. All though they had the name on them. Other than that, weren't that great. Since then, I built my own AR and ended up buying UTG rails from cheaper than dirt. Now, they actually fit better and have four screws two at each end that tighten the rails onto your barrel. That way there is no turning, twisting, or pulling back against your delta ring. Now, I admit I would love to have some Larue stuff and it all looks nice. But, when it gets right down to it, the UTG rails work just as good (if not better than most) and only cost about 70 bucks . So, I saved 200 bucks I can use on something more important such as trigger or sights. So, yes I do believe that some of the generic stuff has it's place. And, would acutally be dependable on a service (life depends on it) weapon. Other things, I would deffinitely use the name brand more dependable stuff such as LPK's, Triggers, sights. The rest is exactly what it says "Furniture" and should be regarded as such. Optics on the other hand. As long as they stayed zero'd and let you hit the bull. Who cares what the name is. I have high end and I have cheap Optics. Both have proven reliable. But hell yes I want an Aimpoint on my AR. I just can't afford one. But, the 65 dollar mil dot illuminated scope that I bought at Walmart has worked flawlessly on my Remington 700 , 7mm Magnum (terrible recoil) for well over two years now, has held it's zero and happens to be my favorite scope over all the others. I have seen other scopes that have the same options and cost as much as 700 dollars. Now really. Does spending 600 more bucks make that zero any tighter?
Mutt |
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My question was "how" or "why" are the name brands better? Simple as that. Tell me why a $300 dollar rail is better for optics, VFG's, lasers, or bi-pods or whatever. I mean, a picatinny rail is a picatinny rail, right? So I'm asking is it workmanship? Materials? Quality control? Milling tolerances? Is a La Rue or Daniel Defense rail actually better than a YHM? If so, why? I don't give a hoot what people have on their rifles. I don't give a hoot how much someone paid for a piece of gear. I WANT TO KNOW WHY IT IS BETTER. In someone's best opinion. I totally agree that optics is no place to scrimp. I have a cheap NC STAR scope and it doesn't compare to the much nicer Burris I have. but what about other stuff. rails, bi-pods, scope mounts, etc.? Materials used (7075 vs 6061 or 2024 or unknown) Rail dimensions - there is a spec for exact dimensions to the thousandth of an inch - this is not always followed Quality of finish - type III anodize vs ??? YHM rails, for example, are "short". The distance between the rail and the handguard is too small and some items will not fit. There is an exact dimension for this and YHM does not follow it. |
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My question was "how" or "why" are the name brands better? Simple as that. Tell me why a $300 dollar rail is better for optics, VFG's, lasers, or bi-pods or whatever. I mean, a picatinny rail is a picatinny rail, right? So I'm asking is it workmanship? Materials? Quality control? Milling tolerances? Is a La Rue or Daniel Defense rail actually better than a YHM? If so, why? I don't give a hoot what people have on their rifles. I don't give a hoot how much someone paid for a piece of gear. I WANT TO KNOW WHY IT IS BETTER. In someone's best opinion. I totally agree that optics is no place to scrimp. I have a cheap NC STAR scope and it doesn't compare to the much nicer Burris I have. but what about other stuff. rails, bi-pods, scope mounts, etc.? You answered your own question in red, devil. |
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Can I add my $0.02 worth without being stomped on. I have personal expereince of a friend whose son was in the reserves and over in the sand box. The son wrote home asking dad to get him Ai-point scope as they weren't issued to his unit and everyone else was getting them from home as they really needed them to feel safe?? Dad sold his coin collection which was for grandson to buy and ship scope. I might understand why when the free tactical magazines telling them you can't defend themself without (a––point, e-tec etc) as anything else will safe-destructare and get them killed and all the regular units have them and he needs one or won't make it back. My friend damn sure wants his son back and is afraid needed or not his son think's he needs it.
That's one point of possible need but that's in the sand box. Why on my AR's, my last combat was in 1967 and unless the political situation goes critical I probably will never have to kill again.????? OBTW son's weapon was M-16A2 not M4 |
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My question was "how" or "why" are the name brands better? Simple as that. Tell me why a $300 dollar rail is better for optics, VFG's, lasers, or bi-pods or whatever. I mean, a picatinny rail is a picatinny rail, right? So I'm asking is it workmanship? Materials? Quality control? Milling tolerances? Its all those things. Sometimes the raw material are out of spec. Sometimes parts are technically in spec, but then there is some problem with it and has to be corrected. Other times, a part is made and seems correct, but parts of it are slightly out of tolerance. Some companies will say, close enough, and ship that out to the customers, and other companies will scrap it because its not good enough to put their name on. It all probably comes down to quality control. At least thats who seems to get blamed by the higher ups at every factory I have ever worked. |
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I see quite a few folks using the several hundred dollar "name brand" rails and optics, and such. How are these "name brands" any better? It's like COLT vs anything else. Name brand recognition. Right? In some cases, the difference is negligible compared to a huge price difference. Also for consideration, is your expected use. Not just # of rounds, but whether match shooting, police/swat, etc. Even if the shit hits the fan and you are taking out zombies from the fighting hole dug in your front yard, you may be fine with "less than" the high priced gear, as long as your sector doesn't get too hot with zombies. 
With optics, the analysis is a bit different, and it does seem like every incremental $75-$100 increase in price results in better and more reliable optics. Every AR owner is different, so obviously preferences are too. Some people are shitting money; some people's AR is their sole "project" and beneficiary of their discretionary income; some people shoot competitively; and, of course, some people are just condescending assholes. I'm not sure if that was a ramble, a vent , or informative... |
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My life or the life of someone else may depend on my gear. Because of that I am willing to pay more if it ensures I am getting the highest quality in materials and workmanship. I look for reviews of gear by people who have used those items under harsh conditions. If the item in question has met their needs and the rail/optic/BUIS/whatever appears to fit my need, then I'm willing to let price be a secondary consideration. If, when I buy it, the item still doesn't work for me, then I sell it and chalk it up to a lesson learned. The cost of the item is not the determining factor when evaluating its suitability to a given mission.
Never let the process (or the price) dictate the mission. |
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My life or the life of someone else may depend on my gear. Because of that I am willing to pay more if it ensures I am getting the highest quality in materials and workmanship. I look for reviews of gear by people who have used those items under harsh conditions. If the item in question has met their needs and the rail/optic/BUIS/whatever appears to fit my need, then I'm willing to let price be a secondary consideration. If, when I buy it, the item still doesn't work for me, then I sell it and chalk it up to a lesson learned. The cost of the item is not the determining factor when evaluating its suitability to a given mission. Never let the process (or the price) dictate the mission. Well said. 
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My life or the life of someone else may depend on my gear. Because of that I am willing to pay more if it ensures I am getting the highest quality in materials and workmanship. I look for reviews of gear by people who have used those items under harsh conditions. If the item in question has met their needs and the rail/optic/BUIS/whatever appears to fit my need, then I'm willing to let price be a secondary consideration. If, when I buy it, the item still doesn't work for me, then I sell it and chalk it up to a lesson learned. The cost of the item is not the determining factor when evaluating its suitability to a given mission. Never let the process (or the price) dictate the mission. Well said. Yes. Well said. Thanks for the last 6-7 answers everyone. They were helpful. |
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