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Posted: 12/15/2008 3:34:46 PM EDT
| I met a guy who asked if i could build him a AR 15 my best friend is a ffl so transfer wont be a problem. My question is i told him i would use all del ton parts what would be a fair price to charge him or how do i go about doing this. Am i legally aloud to do this im not a bussiness owner and i dont know the guy personally so basically what do i have to look out for. |
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If you know what you're doing and feel confident building an AR, the best way to approach this from both an ATF and tort viewpoint would be to have your friend buy the receiver himself, then bring it over for you to help him finish. Have him there when the work is performed and let him do as much as he's comfortable with. This will avoid any FFL related issues, and having him actively involved in the build should help you avoid any issues related to function later on, as your friend helped do the build. After the receiver is done, you're out of danger, assembly-wise; putting in the parts and mating it to an upper isn't building a firearm as far as the ATF is concerned, because only the receiver is the regulated part.
[ETA] I just re-read your post and saw the phrase "met a guy." If you don't know this person yourself, or he isn't vouched for by a close trusted firend, I'd probably pass, not because it's a high risk activity, but because you don't know his agenda (trying to entrap you?) and even if it's on the level, you just never know what the hell people are going to to after the fact. You might find yourself taking a lot of crap because the function or appearance isn't perfect or what was expected, etc. because people have unrealistic expectations. As far as what to charge, you can be reimbursed for time and materials, but I'd be careful about doing this kind of thing on a regular basis. The profit thing is what the ATF looks at to see if you're selling or manufacturing firearms as a business. If I were you, I'd ask him to reimburse you for the cost of parts (provide receipts and keep copies) and a generous allowance for your time and trouble - but don't "charge" him for your services. You won't need an FFL to transfer the finished receiver because it's his; you're just helping him finish it. And even if you do all the work, it's a private transaction (check state law to make sure) so no FFL is required. |
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Quoted:
You cannot build rifles for other people, particularly not for money, without the proper ffl. Doing it for "some guy" would be a particularly bad idea. But if the lower receiver is already in his name? My friend has 4 co-workers (who he trusts - 2 are doctors) who want EBRs, and they want my help in deciding what to get, and to put the LPK and stock on the lower receiver. I stated that they will have to buy the receiver and keep it in their name, and they'll have to provide a letter to me stating that they want me to assemble the parts on it for them while the lower is in my possession. Any compensation for my help might be cash, but would probably be in the manner of AR parts (stock, grip, new gas block, etc.). I won't be messing with the upper. I will consult them to help them determine what they want and to suggest what to get, then it will be ordered as they want it. |
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Quoted:
You cannot build rifles for other people, particularly not for money, without the proper ffl. Doing it for "some guy" would be a particularly bad idea. Yes and no. You're absolutely right to be paranoid about doing this kind of work for someone you don't know. You absolutely shouldn't be doing this kind of work for people (plural) and deriving substantial profit from that work; that's the very definition of the "engaging in the business" that the ATF will bust your ass for. However, if you aren't doing it for compensation, you can give away all the work and materials you want. Just as you don't need an FFL for a private sale, you wouldn't need an FFL to transfer a lower you built for someone at no profit. Still, it would be best if you let the other guy buy his lower and bring it over so you can help him finish it. If he gives you a few bucks for your time and for the wear and tear on your milling machine, that's fair. If the guy picks up his lower and leaves, and you later find a stack of twenties on the bench, well, that's between you, your lawyer, and the JBTs. Here's the deal, plain and simple, to lay all this BS to rest. You may not engage in the business of selling or manufacturing (and selling) firearms without a license. If you understand what "being in the business of" means, you will get 90% of what the law is about. And if you understand the difference between that and a hobby that is not a business, how the sale of private property differs from that, and what agency is, you will understand all you need to know about this whole scenario. If this paragraph doesn't make sense to you, you need to either research it until you do understand it or just pass on the whole enterprise. The odds of being caught are slim, but the consequences can be severe. |
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Quoted: Is your impression of the BATF that they are reasonable people not looking to cause others unnecessary harm? Is risking your freedom something that should be done based on information obtained from anonymous people on the internet?Quoted: You cannot build rifles for other people, particularly not for money, without the proper ffl. Doing it for "some guy" would be a particularly bad idea. But if the lower receiver is already in his name? My friend has 4 co-workers (who he trusts - 2 are doctors) who want EBRs, and they want my help in deciding what to get, and to put the LPK and stock on the lower receiver. I stated that they will have to buy the receiver and keep it in their name, and they'll have to provide a letter to me stating that they want me to assemble the parts on it for them while the lower is in my possession. Any compensation for my help might be cash, but would probably be in the manner of AR parts (stock, grip, new gas block, etc.). I won't be messing with the upper. I will consult them to help them determine what they want and to suggest what to get, then it will be ordered as they want it. |
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Quoted:
You cannot build rifles for other people, particularly not for money, without the proper ffl. Doing it for "some guy" would be a particularly bad idea. I totally agree with Aimless. Only if 'the guy' buys his own lower, upper, and other parts and you instruct/assist in the build would I feel comfortable. He purchased the parts and you only helped him with 'his build'. 
If he compensates you in some manner, be sure it can't be tracked back to you directly. Leave no traces. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Is your impression of the BATF that they are reasonable people not looking to cause others unnecessary harm? Is risking your freedom something that should be done based on information obtained from anonymous people on the internet?
Quoted:
You cannot build rifles for other people, particularly not for money, without the proper ffl. Doing it for "some guy" would be a particularly bad idea. But if the lower receiver is already in his name? My friend has 4 co-workers (who he trusts - 2 are doctors) who want EBRs, and they want my help in deciding what to get, and to put the LPK and stock on the lower receiver. I stated that they will have to buy the receiver and keep it in their name, and they'll have to provide a letter to me stating that they want me to assemble the parts on it for them while the lower is in my possession. Any compensation for my help might be cash, but would probably be in the manner of AR parts (stock, grip, new gas block, etc.). I won't be messing with the upper. I will consult them to help them determine what they want and to suggest what to get, then it will be ordered as they want it. so basically you're saying that no one can help anyone else put a lower together and receive a thank you gift for their time and effort? That doing that (certainly not on a long term basis) for a few people my friend knows, is a crime? |
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