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Posted: 11/27/2008 3:16:05 PM EDT
| My form is at the ATF, I dont have any reasons to be rejected other than form formalities. Can I get on a upper waiting list by placing an order now before my form is approved? I fully understand the legal ramifications and would store the upper at a friends 20 miles away. |
| As long as you have a virgin receiver and don't yet have the buttstock then you can have the SBR upper. If anyone asks just tell them it's for a pistol build. If you have a receiver with a buttstock on it and the SBR upper without any virgin receiver then the BATF would consider you in constructive possession of an unregistered SBR. |
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Quoted:
As long as you have a virgin receiver and don't yet have the buttstock then you can have the SBR upper. If anyone asks just tell them it's for a pistol build. If you have a receiver with a buttstock on it and the SBR upper without any virgin receiver then the BATF would consider you in constructive possession of an unregistered SBR. Quoted:
...sounds about right THIS IS WRONG. You do not decide if your lower is rifle or pistol. You can not just take a "virgin receiver" and get a short upper. The lower would have to be 4473 as a pistol. If you have a rifle receiver even if it is stripped then you can't have a sub 16" barrel. |
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Quoted:
As long as you have a virgin receiver and don't yet have the buttstock then you can have the SBR upper. If anyone asks just tell them it's for a pistol build. If you have a receiver with a buttstock on it and the SBR upper without any virgin receiver then the BATF would consider you in constructive possession of an unregistered SBR. Quoted:
...sounds about right THIS IS WRONG. You do not decide if your lower is rifle or pistol. You can not just take a "virgin receiver" and get a short upper. The lower would have to be 4473 as a pistol. If you have a rifle receiver even if it is stripped then you can't have a sub 16" barrel. This is only wrong if your FFL is dumb enough to put "rifle" on the 4473. Most simply put "lower receiver", which DOES leave it to you to decide. There are some FFLs and vendors who insist on putting "rifle" and charge significantly more for writing "pistol" - these are the ones to avoid doing business with. |
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The problem with what your saying is the you could have to prove that that lower was never built into a rifle because if it was your in deep shit. It is better to just buy a pistol lower and cover your ass. The ATF is not something you want to screw with.
I buy my pistol lowers for the same price as my rifle lowers. I agree people that charge more should be avoided. ETA: the 4473's I have seen have a check box, you have to pick one. |
| So I already own a complete bushy rifle. I bought a stripped receiver a few weeks ago. its does not have a stock attached yet. So it sounds like I am good to order. IF the ATF was absolutely bored and wanted to waste tax dollars looking into some trivial matter then I could show them my stripped lower any time they wanted to look. Looks like I am placing an order unless anyone has any info that would show conclusively that it would be a bad idea. Would having a stripped lower in my name and an upper constitute constructive intent? What about stored in two different locations? |
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Ask Tony_k over in the class III forums. He has been doing this stuff longer than any of us and he is the mod over there. I would take whatever he says as the best answer you are going to get.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/forum.html?b=6&f=17 |
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Quoted:
My form is at the ATF, I dont have any reasons to be rejected other than form formalities. Can I get on a upper waiting list by placing an order now before my form is approved? I fully understand the legal ramifications and would store the upper at a friends 20 miles away. Go ahead & place the order. Chances are good that you won't have the upper before your forms are approved anyway. If you do receive the upper prior to approval then possess it at your own risk. |
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Per the BATF it does not matter what the 4473 says, only what the manufacturer logged it out of their books as or whether it has had a buttstock on it.
Having a virgin lower and short barreled upper is not construrctive possession of a SBR per the BATF unless you actually have a spare stock to go on it in your possession. |
| Ok, I have read about 1000 posts to every 1 submitted. In all the stuff I have read I have a question. Has anyone ever heard of anyone EVER getting questioned by an official ATF officer for this type of thing? I could see people not having the discipline and assembling a rifle illegally and getting hammered at a range or getting pulled over and having a LEO find it. They should be punished. But if the manufactures dont require copies of the form in hand before you order then it seems the ATF has the opinion of we have better things to do than police the internet and spend hours trying to put two and two together on some poor smuck, who has an application sitting at their office. |
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Quoted:
Ok, I have read about 1000 posts to every 1 submitted. In all the stuff I have read I have a question. Has anyone ever heard of anyone EVER getting questioned by an official ATF officer for this type of thing? I could see people not having the discipline and assembling a rifle illegally and getting hammered at a range or getting pulled over and having a LEO find it. They should be punished. But if the manufactures dont require copies of the form in hand before you order then it seems the ATF has the opinion of we have better things to do than police the internet and spend hours trying to put two and two together on some poor smuck, who has an application sitting at their office. Just because they may not be actively pursuing those folks that assemble their SBR before they're approved 99% of the time doesn't mean you should be the next test case. If something is law & is not being enforced doesn't mean someone should be breaking that law because they may get away with it. Integrity & great character is what I used to tell my recruits. |
| Oh I agree 100% on the integrity factor. I am a Fire dept captain and believe that law is law. I have never read anything anywhere that you cannot order the parts. Just make sure you do not have a constructive intent and assemble only after the form is in hand. Interpretation of said laws can make alot of grey area. Thanks for your input |
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My situation is a little simpler than yours. I can't afford to buy an upper yet. My paperwork WILL be complete and I will have my tax stamp before I've saved enough to buy a complete SBR upper, and it'll be a while before I can even buy a barrel. I think that was quite clever on my part. No I dont. It would be nice if the ATF made things a little more clear. How hard would it be to post some information on thier website? I am waiting till the forms in hand before I order. 
In reality, if I hadn't had a recent cash crunch (as in having to buy a new car), I'd have put money down on a complete upper with one or another dealer in my area, so that when I got the stamp, the second thing I'd do (first is making copies of the paperwork and locking up the original!) would be to go pick up my almost-paid-for short upper. |
Kind of a O.T. quick question - I live in WA state where SBR's aren't legal ( )
I have 1 pistol lower currently, and 1 10.5" upper on order (about 2 months out), can I put in another order for a 7.5" upper and hold out on another pistol lower? I have 5 other rifle lowers.....which of course would never meet up with my pistol uppers. Just wondering if I can have 2 pistol uppers, and only 1 pistol lower? Thanks! |
I am not sure what to believe really, I have heard different things from many posts. All good information mind you but just different opinions. In your situation if you have in your possession a SBR upper that can physically mate to ANY lower I think your in this gray area. I could be wrong and probably am, but thats another opinion to sift. 
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