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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Lower with full auto switch (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 9/9/2008 6:50:05 AM EDT
Full auto is banned in my state, but I want to purchase this lower with a full auto switch. Can this be used as SEMI ONLY? .jpg)
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That's not a full auto lower. It only has the markings. As the post above states, don't use any full auto parts. |
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A lower with an "AUTO" mark is no more a machine gun than my Henry pump-action .22 with a sticky note on it is. Full-auto on an AR is determined by the parts in the receiver, not the receiver itself. Hell, adding an extra engravings at six o'clock for the "Plasma Bolt" function ain't gonna make it so :-) |
You might want to review the differences between a FA and SA receiver; it's not just the parts inside.  I believe that in some states it IS illegal to have full-auto markings on a semi-auto receiver, unless it is a host for a RDIAS.
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| I would stay away from that lower, even in my state. If its not a legal FA gun, why be a poser? Jus saying. While it would be a stretch, there is always the infamous bad word of INTENT TO MAKE. Why tempt fate, all you need to do is go to the range, have a range nazi wig out and then your in for a ride of your life, even if 100% innocent. Do what you want, but why tempt it. If you like those markings, im sure someone like SPIKES or any of the other makers could do it on a SA. |
Dude. This lower is NOT drilled for an auto sear. That hole in the back is the takedown pin hole. If it was drilled for a sear, it'd be a problem to own it. |
nvm..I got confused. The extra hole would be above the SEMI engraving. If it had the extra hole, I would certainly stay away from it. Personally I feel a FA marked SEMI lower is just as bad as fake suppresors, jus lame and screams POSER IMO. |
Well, yeah, if it was milled for a sear it'd be a MG. But it is perfectly legal to own this receiver by federal law and those of many states. The markings are just cosmetic. I don't know MI law. |
Meh. Yes, you need to make sure there is not a sear block, and using a proper auto-sear instead of an RDIAS would require a hole for the auto sear pin; but even if you had a low-shelf receiver with an extra pin hole it would not be full-auto without the correct fire control and trigger groups.
Logically that makes no sense, but I guess I shouldn't be surprised. Hell, New York City wanted to ban guns that weren't "gun colored" :-/ Edited for misspelled and forgotten words -WhyTanFox |
Is that true? Having the space for full-auto parts logically, technically, and physically no more makes an MG than a "full-auto" bolt carrier, which the ATF has rulled as being perfectly fine in a semi-auto AR. Edited for -- wait for it -- spelling :-( |
Not anymore it isn't. All legally transferable machine guns are now legal in the state of Michigan. State Attorney General opinion #7183 (see link below) superseded the previous opinion of the late 1970's which made only C&R MG's legal. www.ag.state.mi.us/opinion/datafiles/2000s/op10259.htm Just so's ya know.
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Haha, logic from the ATF! You kill me! Seriously, what I meant to say is that if it was drilled for a sear it would likely mean the receiver was either legally or illegally made into a MG at one point (or manufactured as one), not that drilling the receiver alone automatically makes a MG. But I would not be surprised if drilling for the sear results in a constructive possession charge. OP: I note that the receiver in the first post is pistol-designated, not sure if that's what you're after or not (and is not necessarily a bad thing, just something you may care to note.) |
heh..didnt even notice that. not that it matters in this case. but you are ahead of the game as far as versatility by having a lower marked pistol. |
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I like the full auto markings. Hell, every gun on here with stupid rails, goofy stocks, overpriced military optics, ridiculous camo paint, $400 flashlights, laser sights and funky slings so you can carry the thing 40 different ways is a POSER gun. Buy what you like, doesn't cost any more. If you live in a state that prohibits you from from writing "full auto" on the gun, move to a state which doesn't have retarded legislatures. That's like trying to ban fluorescent orange flash suppressors on real guns. |
*WRONG* If it's drilled for the autosear it's a MG. Doesn't matter if you have any parts in it. |
No shit, an MG even though it doesn't mean any of the requirements of one? Stupid, but I guess not surprising. Is there a document that shows that ruling/decision? Didn't early Colts use the auto-sear pin hole to hold the sear-block in place? -WhyTanFox |
+1
Although I don't own one yet, I like the look of the fake can. Sorry if I'll be a poser. If it's legal, build whatever you want and put whatever you want on it. Otherwise, we would all have only KISS rifles. |
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That lower with an M16 full auto selector switch is legal. Use of an M16 selector switch is legal but I recommend you grind off portion of the full auto selector switch that contacts the tail on the M16 disconnector, commonly called SP1 specs, and you are good to go. Don't listen to all the "I wouldn't do that cause it makes you a poser" guys. Your gun, do what you want that's legal. I have a neutered full auto selector in my M4 because I want one. I firmly believe in taking prudent steps to make sure you don't run afoul of the law but I also detest those that spout irrational fear mongering. |
I've never seen the ruling but have known about the third hole AK issue ever since some where imported with plugged holes. BATFE went around and confiscated them. Here's an old thread from the AK forum that talks about it: www.ak47.net/lite/topic.html?b=4&f=78&t=80299&page=1 Oh, you can drill extra holes in your receiver. Just not in with the right diameter and placement to support an auto sear. But I'm not sure on the exact specifics. |
I believe if you drill the hole ,you have attempted to manufacture a nfa weapon.
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Well in my opinion anyone that has an ar15 is a poser!!!! Join the military and carry the real thing (m16) in combat!!! Then, my sir, you are not a "poser"! Not really my thoughts just letting off some steam with some comic relief.. I bought a spikes lower in the last group buy, if you did not then you missed out on a top notch lower, Ill do what I want, you do what you can... Semper Fi...
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I'm retired Army. SO if I build a replica of my war time M4, I'm a poser too? If he dressed up like an airsofter and started posting on here about his "dreaded "D" time" like covertwarrior, then he's a poser. Building a replica of a full auto gun does not make one a poser. |
Ummm "NOT REALLY MY THOUGHTS" "COMIC RELIEF"????  I was joking....
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| I would read the ATF&E web-site. The way I read it the cosmetics are not even mentioned but if the clearence cuts inside the upper and lower and or the auto sear hole is drilled it is a machine gun. Any other M-16 parts install only increases the charges to more machine guns. Just the markings are cool but each and every M-16 part is a machine gun if the basic reciever is available to place them in. Possesing is considered intent. Just enterest by local law inforcement is enough to get ATF&E envolved and then they will find a section in the law that applies. Low profile and not wanting to have too many poser parts is the only way. If you really want those cool FN markings see GO ARMY web site they will let you have one free. No disrespect meant for our gallant veterans who have been there did that and would go there and do it again if they ask. To those I say thanks. veterans who want a close replica of there service weapons are not really poser. They just want something that can bring back some of the feel of being there again. I hope this makes sense I seem to have got carried away. |
Everything you posted about the law and M16 parts is incorrect. Read this thread for the correct information. www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=6&t=739614 |
Absolutely not. 1) The added in sear blocks were not "early". they were/are pretty late in production, and only succeeded in recent years by the front interior wall. 2) The hole(s) in the lower that the blocks had the mounting pins pushed thru are speced so that if you try to cut out the block and mount an auto sear, you'll be trying to drill a hole that's half in aluminum and half in steel---and that doesn't work too well. If you punch out the steel pin stubs, you're left with a hole that's twice the size of the sear pin. 3) The only thing you can do w/the sear block AR to "convert " them is to cut out the block and use a drop in auto sear. That is---if you have about 10 grand to waste on a $5 piece of steel. |
We've gathered that IMHO yes a Full Auto Engraving falls under Posser. Pay the tax, bit the bullet and make use of that happy switch. If you want to go with that lower go ahead, every one at the range that sees you have FA marked Spikes lower willl know your either a posser or a dealer, and after the 1 mag down the pipe everyone will know which. |
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why would you open yourself up to prosecution? Why? Is your life not close enough to some dangerous line, that you want to skirt the rules? I will admit I am extremely cautious about THE LAW and you may not be, but seriously, doesn't this scream "bad idea" to you unless you are willing to fully comply with the law on fully automatic weapons? Could this be the reason you get charged with some form of "attempt" at lawbreaking, in some ill contrived fashion by the ATF? I'm sorry for my screaming meamie rant here but that's just me. |
I understand this, but a jury might easily be confused into voting "guilty." |
I think everyone read too much into this. I like the options that spikes offer (color fill and engraving) The normal lower is out of stock and I don't like waiting 5-6 months for anything so I thought about getting another model from spikes for the options, I have no intentions of making it FULL AUTO or being a POSER, I just wanted to know would it function like a normal SEMI. I really want this on my SPR 
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Well not EVERYONE is as judgemental as you.. Ive shown quite a bit of "gun lovers" my lower from spikes, and all have said that it is awesome (bc of the full auto markings)!! IMHO you can not speak for EVERYONE and if I send 1 mag down range does not mean everyone will know I am not running full auto.... as it is a "selector switch"!!! My suggestions are to buy what you want as it is your money... and dont worry about individuals that want to judge rather than compliment you and your ar!!!!!!!!!!
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I have two just like it. Yes, you can use it as a semi. |
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I based my post on my questions during my last 2 FFL audits and a phone call initiated by one of the inspectors to ATF&E headquarters. They said if you have the parts your not really making them happy but if you have a M-16 style upper and lower recievers which can take all of the full auto parts they consider that entent and are breaking the law. Every thing I posted was told to me by ATF&E and I can't find anything in my handbook which contradicts that. Other than that what part of my post is totally wrong. Any M-16 parts used in a weapon must be modified to SP-1 pattern to be used in semi weapon the exceptions are the trigger and auto-sear. The trigger could be modified by welding but why would you want to. the auto-sear can't be used in a semi at all legally. As a matter of fact a recently ordered and used a lower parts kit from Sarco. They had modified M-16 parts except for trigger which was a Sarco part and it had to be ground down to clear safety/selector, they ground down the auto cam and that lets the safety move to the full auto position but won't do anything there. Most of my 5 AR's have auto bolt carriers, even my retro. I seem to be getting carried away but I'm offended when called a liar |
Think they did at one time, but I don't think anymore. They sometimes have the typical safe/fire lowers made by LAR - but they never bring them to gun shows. Only boxes and boxes of the "poser" lowers with the auto markings. They are made by another company (API??? forget the name now) and are the best quality lowers I've ever seen. I just won't have one with full auto markings if it's a semi. Mike (Spike) doesn't understand that as he sells tons of the auto marked ones. |
The bullet pictogram lower is our best selling lower by a long shot! Must be a Lot of possers out there including myself. We have 3 style lowers avilable. Bullet pictogram, Fire/Safe, and Semi/Safe. -Tom@Spike's Tactical |
I understand that, as thats all I ever see at the gun shows in Central Florida. I know you guys go thru big boxes of the "auto" marked lowers at each show. As I recall thay are made by API ?? and are of superb quality. I've tried to get you guys to bring a safe/fire lower to my local show on a few occasions to no avail. so I ended up buying more RRA stuff instead. Sorry the full auto marked stuff just isn't for me, unless of course the happy switch is real. |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Lower with full auto switch (Page 1 of 2)
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