AR Sponsor
Posted: 6/17/2008 4:59:49 PM EDT
| I am contemplating an AR-15 with a 11.5 inch barrel, it has an overal length of 27 inches with the stock collapsed. What is the procedure to make it completely legal. |
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First check with your local & state laws regarding SBR ownership, i.e. can you own one? Second, fill out the ATF&E Form 1 get it signed by local Law Enforcement Third, send completed Form 1 and $200 check to the ATF&E boys Forth.... wait for the Tax Stamp. and Last, once said Stamp is in your hands go shoot the damn thing. If step one can't be passed, no need going further... your screwed. |
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Never seen that requirement before, that's nowhere on any Form one & Form 1 insturctions I've seen. I have many friends who have quite a few SBR's between them and none are marked like that. All with the proper Tax Stamps and paperwork. You do have to carry a copy of the paperwork with you. you need a Serial # yes, but name & state? I have my doubts on that requirement. Not required here in Oregon. Please, not being obnoxious, but show me that in Goverment regs / writing... |
| It is a requirement to engrave the name and address of the firearm manufacturer. If you do the form 1 and "manufacture" your own SBR then yes you do need to engrave your name and address. I have a class three manufacturer/ dealer local to me that I got to do mine just because they get it laser engraved very nicely. I didn't want to make a mess with a dremel. |
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I still don't see this as a requirement for an AR style SBR, all form 1 says in block 4a to list the name and location of ORIGINAL MANUFACTURER of the firearm reciever. Look at 2h in the instructions.... "IF an existing firearm is being modified into an NFA firearm, enter the EXISTING serial number of the firearm..." I just read the entire Form 1 and instructions aand no where is it stated one must engrave the reciever with your own name and address. I've checked the more common NFA sites and none list this requirement. So, where is the goverment regs that state this is required? I think this is a common misconception that one must add that. They do have a field to list additional info that will be o the firearm, but no where is it stated that you HAVE to engrave your name and address on it. |
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Read this: Or you can make any NFA weapon, except for machine guns (see below), by filing ATF Form 1, "Application to Make and Register a Firearm", and paying the $200 making tax, which applies to all of these weapons, including AOW's. You may not make the proposed weapon until the Form 1 is returned to you approved. The law enforcement certification, photos and fingerprints also apply to Form 1's, and in fact to any transfer to an individual. Additionally the manufacturer of any NFA weapon, including an individual making one on a Form 1 must mark the receiver of the weapon with the maker's name and city and state. NFA Branch can grant exemptions from this for DD's. All types of corporations, including corporate type 01 FFL holders, need not do the certification, photo and fingerprint requirements. Any of the forms listed, and the fingerprint cards, are available for free from ATF, either in Washington, D.C. or your local office. Taken from the ATF site. |
| BATFE wants a specific length & caliber. You can run other lengths & calibers, but you are supposed to notify them if you make a permanent change. Last I heard you *might* get away w/ multiple caliber & length, but it's likely to get bounced for 1 specific caliber/length. It doesn't really matter w/ an AR. Register it as one caliber, keep that upper so you have it, and then shoot it as whatever you want. It's an SBR. |
Look here SBR FAQ, Class 3 Firearms Discussion, Armory Section |
Be careful with this as most lasers do not burn deep enough to be technically legal. Check the NFA forum for the correct depth. |
.003" Yes, read the FAQ linked above. |
Affirm. I was told by ALL engraving businesses (15 +) in my AO that they could not cut the required depth with a laser engraver. They said the only laser that cut .003 deep is a YAG laser & they too expensive for most local type operations to buy. And the ones that do have them charge way more than you will pay to have Orion or Homeland Defense & Police Supply do it for you the way the ATF wants it done. A rotary engraver is what most will use to get that depth. It's then just a matter of how nice they can get it to look. |
I'm actually registering the lower as an AOW |
Wow, interesting. Is that so you have a cheaper transfer tax if you decide to sell it later on? |
You know it costs the same $200 to register an AOW as a SBR if you do it yourself don't you? It's only $5 for an AOW on a transfer. |
| Actually I'm not sure what way they engrave it, I assumed laser engraving just because of how good it looks. May be CNCed or similar. Typically they charge $70 to do it but they had some extras from a bulk run so they cost the same as a stripped lower + the tax stamp. I couldn't pass it up. |
| Thank you very much for the information, its what I was looking for. Are you only required to register it with the ATF if it is assembled as a complete firearm? Is is illegal to posses a "short barrel" complete upper if it is not part of the rifle and stored in a box? I was thinking about just completeing the AR-15 with a 16 inch upper, and keeping the 11.5 inch upper laying around. |
I wouldn't do that. |
You are thinking about a felony. |
Don't keep even the barrel around. Try to keep it at a friends house if he doesn't have any ARs. Also, when you get a tax stamp back from a Form 1, YOU are the manufacturer. |
Or go spend $100 & buy a pistol lower. Either build the pistol, or keep the virgin receiver w/ the short upper. You then have a legal use for the short upper & constructive possession shouldn't apply. |
Really, Thats what I was asking for. Thanks to those with more knowledge for sharing it with someone starting out with ARs. I just retired 2 Rugar Mini 14s, the AR15 really impressed me. The Rugers were recommeded as a good service rifle for Patrol Rifle Duty, and have performed flawlessly for many years. However, the AR just feels better. So I am hooked and convinced and plan on hanging out here a lot more. Based on your input and research on other threads here, I have settled on 16 in chrome moly barrel, Chrome lined chamber and bore, 1 in 9 twist, threaded for accessories. I will marry this to a DPMS lower with CAR stock. Again, thanks for the info. NOW, where can I get the best price on H&K 30 round Magazines! |
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NFA laws are some of the few firearm laws that make you guilty just by possessing a part and not even installing it. So long as you have both the parts in your possession and a rifle they can fit, you're guilty. It doesn't matter that your AR doesn't have an auto sear pin drilled and the parts weren't installed, if you have an M16 FCG (and no RR), you're guilty of possessing a machine gun. Same with owning just a 20" rifle and having an 11.5" barrel, you're guilty. If had a 5.5" flash hider and something you were planning on pinning it with, you might be able to make a case for innocence, but who wants to trust dealing with the ATF? However, if you have one pistol or SBR receiver, you can have all the short barrels you want, since you have a legal circumstance for using them. Just don't put them on the rifle receiver. |
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