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Posted: 9/6/2007 4:53:59 AM EDT
| is it cost effective to build off an 80% lower? I'm a college student and getting ready to get married so money is tight. Am I better off buying a pre-machined lower? How much is a dealer going to charge me to order one through him? Where can I find the other needed parts the cheapest? (This is my first build, so quality isn't my first concern I need to know I can build a firing gun before I sink a bunch of money into one) |
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I think it would be cheaper to just buy 100% stripped lower, you can get one of them for around $110 at most gun shows. You will spend that or more on an 80% but even if you find one for less, you then need the tools to complete it which would be around $150 with the monster tap, unless you go this route; http://mujahadeenar15a2.tripod.com/ And yes that is really NOT quality which is what you stated above. |
| Good stripped lower's can be had for $89-$135 + FFL transfers averaging from $15-$30 depending on the charges of your local FFL/dealer. Call around & ask the FFL's in your AO what they charge before you order & make sure they are willing to do the transfer for you first. |
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I am all for you building an 80% - just not at this point in your life when money & time are tight & college comes 1st. You are listed as being in VA. Google Virginia Arms Co. They offer the lowest cost transfers in NOVA (make SURE you bring proof of US citizenship like your passport - they check). There is an outfit that pays to advertize here on arfcom that offers $77 lowers and those are perfectly acceptable. By building yourself, you save the excise tax. Put the time into the books and once you graduate & make the big $$, then invest in that mill and machine an 80%. www.roderuscustom.tzo.com To the rest of you: what's your excuse for not machining an 80%?? |
| I think that the biggest misconception is that by machining your own lowers you can build ARs for like $300. Saving cash is not why you should machine lowers yourself. I think that the real reason to machine a lower is to make exactly what you want, with the parts you want. That and for extreme personal satisfaction. I personally just enjoy cutting metal on big machines. In fact, I like it so much, I machine 0% lower forgings. On a side note, I got around the monster tap by cutting the threads in a lathe with a boring bar. I will post some pics of this as I find it super cool to watch a lower flopping around in a 4-jaw chuck! One thing I will add though, starting out from 0% will give you an unbelievable relationship with your weapon. I really thought I knew how one worked until I machined one from scratch! But, I do have to agree though, for your first build, it would be better to just grab a stripped lower and go from there. I can't imagine trying to run that buffer hole without a machine and the knowledge to run it correctly. I am sure lots of guys have done it, I just wouldn't want to. You would probably end up with enough paper weights to pay for that stripped lower anyway. Okay, enogh rambling...Good luck! |
I think he could put one together using a kit cheaper than buying a complete rifle. He can assemble a $100 lower with a $500 kit for a good bit cheaper than most complete rifles. Shipping isn't that much on those two items either. Plus, you save the federal excise tax if you buy them at seperate times. If he's going for the most inexpensive route, he can get decent quality for around $650; less than $750 with some sort of BUIS (assuming a flattop upper). |
Lack of resources to acquire them. I found out about KT but they don't appear to be selling them at the moment. Plus I need a jig so I'm drilling the holes in the proper location. We're both in VA.... Have anything you can hook me up with??  _MaH |
Don't have any excuse. My first AR was one I build on an 80% lower using my measly craftsman drill press. Then I did 4 more lowers. Now I need the money to finish building them up into working    
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I've built 2 - 80% paper weights into real working ARz so far.....I'd say if you already have the skills and tooling needed (a GOOD drill press, bits, taps, etc....) it'll cost about the same or maybe a little more than a 100% lower from whoever.....but the experience and resulting "toy" that you made your self are well worth it! Just my 2 cents worth......here |
Who's 80% lowers are you using? Got a link? Thanks |
| I used 80%lowers from kevin, who's email can be found over on cncguns.com website. I have also used one from ar15plus.com. I would recommend kevin's due to the fire control pocket being milled out to spec. the one I got from ar15plus.com was approx. .030" too narrow, so I had to file my hammer and trigger down to fit. It did not affect function whatsoever. But I prefer kevin's being to spec so I can swap out fire control parts if I later decide to change em. |
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Essential Arms has the $77 lowers. I've never used them, but they get rood reviews on ARFCOM. ETA: +1 on buying a stripped lower. I've built several AR's for under $500 by taking my time and shopping the EE. |
Thanks for the tip & link! One clarification for everyone though: the $77 lowers above are actual firearms; in order to own one, you have to go to an FFL and ask their permission to own one, then they ask the government if its OK for you to own it. Seems kinda funny to have to ask permission first in order to excercise your rights under the 2nd. This thread started out about 0% and 80% complete lowers. Imagine a 3 lb chunk of solid aluminum shaped like a lower. Anyone can buy it. Comes in the mail. In a person's spare time (takes quite a few hours actually), its machined into a functioning AR-15 lower (if ARs are legal in your state). The BATFE specifically addresses this and its 100% legal (might be news to some - but the batfe even allows you to brew your own beer at home for your own use but not for sale - its true). The point of making your own lower is NOT to save $$ (you probably won't save $$). But its a great hobby and the next logical step in "building your own" AR as everyone is doing here. |
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You people do understand that BATF allows a priviate indv to make a firearm without a manfacturing FFL BUT there are restrictions on this. Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe its no more than ONE per year and that one can never be sold EVER. Its yours and only yours for life. People on this thread are saying they made 5. "johnQpublik" WTF. be careful. if you cant prove the exact timeframe when you made each, you may be facing felony charges. Most people make one and let it go at that. |
I've never seen a LIMIT on any ATF ruling,statute,USC code etc. From what i understand its a "grey" area. However,I would like to see the answer set in stone to put 80% question threads to rest. |
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There is more info in the archives for those who want to know. 1 per year is a myth. Dunno WHERE it came from - but I have a hunch: same place that the "can NEVER be sold" myth. Fact is, batfe focuses on your INTENT when you make the gun. -if you make the gun with the INTENT to sell it, then you have violated the law. Making firearms for sale requires a special FFL and subjects you to taxes. Think of my beer analogy above: you can make a small batch of beer for yourself. No tax required. But if you start selling that beer to people out of the trunk of your car, the batfe will have a problem. By the same token, lets say you loose all interest in guns & take up model trains instead. THEN, you could lawfully sell the gun. Your intent when you made the gun was for "personal use" - ie to keep it for yourself. Your intent changed over time - that is allowed. As for 1 per year "rule", it does not exist. But, making many guns (say 5 or 10 in the same year) would raise suspision that you don't intend to keep them (just like multiple handgun purchases - did you know that those are usually reported to the batfe?). Think about the last used car you sold: it was lawful to sell. But could you sell 3 in one year? 5? 20? At what point, exactly, do you become an "unlicensed car dealer"?? Again, the authorities will look at your intent. The "per year" issue is moot anyway since you are NOT required to register any of your guns (store bought or otherwise) with the federal government (yet). Yes, I know some states require registration. Some states ban new AR-15s for that matter, or have AWBs regarding features allowed/not allowed. But there is no federal registration requirement for non NFA guns. For more info, look at: www.roderuscustom.tzo.com or do a search of the archives. Regards, CBR |
I never stated how long it took me to make em. and the first 2 ain't exactly proper if ya know what I mean, so they are mere decorations. I learned from them what not to do, and what to do differently. And if you are really that interested, this entire venture is goin on over four years now, so that would pretty much make it irrelevant anyhow. The point is that it is just as addictive, if not more so, than simply assembling off the shelf lowers and parts. Puts a whole new twist on the old BRD. |
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ok building your own lower puts in your own sense of accomplishment...but it has a serious downside. Because it is a homebuilt receiver you should NEVER sell it. While technically you can sell it if you engrave it with a unique SN and your name and address, but frankly if you build it you shouldn't sell it to anyone else. One cool thing about home built firearms is that you do not need to put a serial number on them so they stay blank for you to engrave with whatever you want (though use common sense and don't engrave them M16, AK47, or any of the military designations unless you want to get into some hot water fast.). Another thing is building up from a forging WILL cost you more than buying a complete lower, but it's the pride that you take in knowing you BUILT it that makes it worth the extra time and money. Buying a stripped 100% lower is cheaper overall, but you don't get the same sense of accomplishment as you would from building it up from a forging. I think we can all agree, putting together (aka assembling) an AR15 is stupid easy. Building one from a forging is a bit more difficult and takes more time, money, and tools. You have to decide which way you want to go, build it or assemble it. I have assembled all of my AR15s. I too am a college student on a budget and frankly it makes more sense, especially with an AR to buy complete because it is cheaper. Also the fact I can sell the rifle if times get tough or if I find something else I want to do is a HUGE plus, especially in the world of AR's where everyone now wants one...or two...or 50. The one project that I am undertaking that is BUILDING is to build a 1911 from a 60% forging. It isn't an easy project but I really like the challenge and it is something that is more difficult, even using a 100% frame, than an AR15. I had to think it over for a very long time to determine if it was a worth while undertaking, and in the end I decided to go for it because I think I will enjoy a home built 1911 more than one I buy off the shelf. It also just happens in this case it turned out for me to be cheaper to go the homebuild route. I will be assembling my first 1911 for a grand total of....$250 |
 Unless you can tell us how in the hell you've managed to acquire all the parts for that cheap, I gotta call BS. If it's not, then let me know where you're getting these parts from for so cheap so that I can build one for that much too _MaH |
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take off parts from a SA GI thats never been fired, all parts but slide $145 shipped. Aquired from a custom 1911 pistol smith 1911 60-80% Forging $20 Slide www.2ndamendmentauctions.com/detail.asp?id=70 $73.93 shipped Hows that for your BS flag 
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Informative _MaH |
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I got lucky is what it really amounted to, found some good deals and pounced on them before anyone else did. Like the forgings. I picked up 8 for less than $20 a piece. Even if they're out of spec there's a place I can trade them in for $40 credit towards 60% or 80% forgings that are known to be in spec and good to go You can also cut some corners and order 2nds from ESSEX arms, I talked to the guy on the phone and he said the only thing wrong with the frames and slides is cosmetic flaws, the only catch is for $75 you get no warranty on them. |
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