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Posted: 5/6/2006 10:50:20 PM EDT
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Hello everyone, This is my first post here. This is an awesome board! Anyway - I live in California and am building a "California Legal" AR. I'm in the middle of my _10 day_ waiting period for my Stag 15 lower, and I've got a couple questions. My apologies if these questions and comments have been addressed in previous posts. 1) I'd like to build either an M4 clone - or an XM177 clone - no particular reason other than I like the looks - does anyone know whether the XM177 11.5 barrel (with the flash hider to make it 16) is that much less accurate than the M4 16 inch barrel? I know it's supposed to be louder - but that doesn't bother me. 2) I'm getting an Aimpoint "clone" red dot from Ebay - it appears that some folks here have them and like them, especially for the price. 3) I'm getting a Bushmaster 20 round mag that's been modified to only hold ten rounds - I know it's not as practical as a "regular" 10 round mag - but I like the idea of the rifle looking non-pc. 4) I've never got into hunting, and I have a very serious Remington 870 riot gun (among other firearms) for home defense - so this rifle would be more for just fun shooting at the range. 5) I'd like to get tan or brown furniture, does anyone know if any of the "complete" parts kits on the market offer that as an option (I could not find anything in complete kits other than OD and black)? 6) I'm on a budget (I have an 03FFL and just bought a Yugo 24/47 Mauser, to start) - so I have to be careful with the money to keep my wife from getting too concerned about my spending. I'm pretty good at taking things apart and putting them back together again - so I'm looking forward to building whatever kit I get. Anyway, given the above - are there any vendors I should check out (and any I should avoid)? Any suggestions for a newbie like me? Thanks in advance!!!! Also - my personal email is [email protected] if anyone wants to email me. Thanks! Kevin. |
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Welcome to the forum. Building your own rifle to your taste is the only way to fly. The biggest problem I have with the shorter barrels isn't the noise, it's that you're sacrificing velocity. Basically at that point you've got a .22 Mag. A 14.5" or a 16" barrel will give significantly more bullet velocity, the biggest downside is weight. I can see running a short barrel in some CQB scinarios, sure, but since you're running a big honking muzzle device you're still stuck with the length. The biggest advantage a rifle has over a handgun, balistically, is velocity. A handgun pushes a heavy, slow bullet. A rifle pushes a smaller, lighter bullet much faster. To do that you need a longer barrel. Which clone? There are so many red dots on the market, some are better than others. For plinking, however, any will do the job reasonably well. Yeah, I'm a pretty big fan of building "evil" guns to. I even have an AK in .22LR that is one scarry looking "assult rifle". My AR not only has a bayonette lug, I got the M-9 Sawback to go with it! The 20 rounder is a good choice. That makes the rifle still practical for bench shooting because the magazine body dosen't stick out past the mag well. I've seen tan, brown, even various camos and patterns of furniture for AR-15's. What you can get as part of a parts kit is really dependant on where you order from. I would HIGHLY recomend that you check out the Equipment Exchange on this site to find parts places. I personally spent several months shopping around and ordering parts. It's kinda hard to see your new toy sitting there waiting on a piece here or there, but in the long run you get exactly what you want. |
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Cool - thanks ToeBall for the info! Here's the scope I got: http://tinyurl.com/ngadc - they're calling it an RDS (red dot scope?) - but I think it's an M2 clone. It's about $350 cheaper than the real thing - that's a lot of ammo!!! I'll do more checking on the EE to see what's there - it's an awesome resource - I already found out I could have gotten a nice lower for 1/2 what I paid for the Stag. Actually - the more I think about it - the shorter barrel XM177 style might be cool - just for the increased muzzle flash. have But it looks like whichever way I go with the build - it will be fun - and I can always change it later. I am SOOO looking forward to starting - haven't gotten this excited since I was a kid. Luckily, my wife likes to shoot, too - so she understands the obsession. k |
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barrel length does not have the effect on accuracy that you would think. a shorter barrel is not inherently less accurate. that said, there are some high quality m4 profile barrels out there, and I believe that they are generally available in a higher quality than the xm177 style. JT and DelTon have good reputations as fa ras kits go, but I like the EE here for pickingup parts. I have seen xm177 uppres go for less than $200. Roam the EE, or put a wanted to buy ad in the WTB forum, I have had 100% good luck with doing that whenever I did not have the time to keep an eye on the boards. There are also some vendors on the forums that have prices and service that are top notch. Have fun putting the gun together, and enjoy the symptoms of BRD (black rifle disease). Perhaps you may find yourself wanting tomove to a state that will allow you to have all the fun toys. Some lessons I have learned: Do not buy cheap stuff, you will learn to hate it and end up buying the high quality stuff anyhow. What you want, what you end up liking, and what you need can all be different things. I did not like the looks of vertical fore grips, but after using one, I am hooked. I did not like the concept of collapseable stocks, but after using them, I am hooked on them as well. (I just built my first ar 7 months ago, I was an AK person) do not buy cheap ammo, read the ammo forum for reviews and reccomendations. Never ever ever buy olympic or A-merc ammo. Enjoy yourself. if it ain't fun, it ain't worth doing. The AR is so damn versatile that it can be or do almost anything that you ask it to. Have fun with it and never be afraid to do your own thing. |
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Cool - thanks for the advice! I have a feeling that my rifle is going to end up like my 63 Dodge Dart - that started as a bone stock Slant 6, and now has disk brakes, Dutra ported and polished heads, Clifford 6x2 headers, custom cam, two carburators, offy intake, electronic ignition, flowmasters, 400 watt stereo, etc. . . It's so cool being able to customize a rifle like customizing a car! I have an original DCM (CMP) Underwood M1 Carbine, but I don't want to screw with it, since it's pretty cool the way it is, and it belonged to my grandfather (who bought it for $20 from the DCM back in the 60's). So it's really nice to finally have a rifle (soon) that I can customize the way I like it. I think I'll take one of your suggestions and post a "wanted to buy" ad in the EE and see if anyone's got a kit like what I'm looking for. I'm already selling all my old stuff on Ebay to raise the money. h.gif kevin |
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Instead of asking tobuy a kit, just put up a list of parts you need. You also need to keepin mind your state's arcane gun laws and you mayhave to purchase a barrel that is cali legal from Model 1 sales. I believe they have a xm177 barrel that does not have a flash suppresor but a brake. Also check with ADCO, they may be able to whup up somthing for you as well. |
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Thanks for the tip - I went ahead and posted at WTB. I double-checked the pertinent code sections - here's what I found: I think the only things I have to watch out for in Cali (IF I have a FIXED magazine that holds 10 rounds or less) is (1) making sure the entire rifle is not too short - it's 30 inches here, (2) making sure there's nothing on the rifle that could be construed as a sound suppressor (totally illegal in Cali, even if NFA rules are followed), and (3) making sure the barrel is not shorter than 16 inches for the federal rules. Of course, with the way the law is here, the AG could probably make some sponteneous administrative decision that would void this analysis. My inlaws live in AZ - I'd move in with them if I could get away from the hoplophobia out here! |
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