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Posted: 11/2/2003 4:25:15 PM EDT
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During the recent blackout, personal lights were used at an unprecedented level. Many were out in the street w/ headlamps, and the LED was introduced by the Mil/LE community and the Hiking/outdoors community to mom and pop. The extended run time, and "cool" close up work light aspect of the LED really sold it as a useful alternative. Especially amongst LE types, who depended on their lights for many hours. Having used a 6P for years, and then moving to an M2, I learned the LED head would be a great addition to the lights as the std. lamp was killing our batteries, quick! And, the fast burns were actually deterring many to use their "high end" lights. But, not wanting to switch heads in the middle of a "situation", I wanted a dedicated LED light w/ a good amount of LEDS burning at the same time. I wished for a G2 nitrolon LED type light. But, none exists. My understanding is the LED modules burn "cool" w/o generating much heat, so Nitro should be adequate. Its plenty strong and after a year in a work environment, while it might be dinged and dented (slightly) it won't need to be refinished. Also the use of Nitro allows SF to keep manuf. costs down. A cheap light that generates sufficient light, used in less than tactical situautions, is light and runs cheaply. No scrathed AL bodies etc. So what gives??? SF says no plans. Would anyone else like to see one?? |
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The "beam" from an LED is cool but the the LED and Electronics that powers it run very hot. The 1W Luxeon version of the LED bezel which fits the G2 is called the KL3 - it is huge compared to the G2 bezel and I personally think too large for it's output (although it's regulated output runtime is superb). The 1W Luxeon needs good thermal management. I don't think making the KL3 from Nitrolon will make it any cheaper - the opposite could be more likely the case. Al |
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I understand the Nitrolon angle you were getting at but if you want to look at a few available options you should checkout the following models from Streamlight: TL-2 LED - 1w Luxeon LED powered by two 123A's. It has very good long range throw in comparison to the KL3 as well as having a more white illumination. (Tailcap switch - momentary or twist for constant on.) Twin-Task 2L - Dual mode light powered by two 123A's that gives you the choice between xenon lamp or 3 LED's. The xenon lamp won't really match the more distance performance of a G2 but will be a very bright white with good flood. The LED mode will provide good illumination for closer distances (7 yds. or less) but at least you have battery life of as much as 28 hours if using the LED mode exclusively. The downside is that it has a bezel mounted switch which is hard to get used to after using Tac' lights. (The Twin-Task is also avialable in 1L, 3AA, 3C & 2D form.) Tasklight 3AA 1w Luxeon LED - not exactly a personal carry light but it's certainly a good performer at a more economical price and using inexpensive batteries. Performance is very much comparable to the Streamlight TL2-LED light. It has a bezel mounted switch also. Two other simple LED lights to mention are: The Streamlight KeyMate - Amazing flood & throw for a keychain light and has a runtime of approx. 96 hours. The ProPolymer 3N 3 LED light which is basically the size of a penlight and has a runtime of approx. 120 hours. It does have tailcap activation for easy use. |
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Quoted: Bright- that's really nice of you thanks. Couple more questions: Long term/hard use durability o the Streamlights vs. SF? Run times of the DL123 lights vs. SFs like 6P/C2/M2? Prices vs. SF Links? TIA- S2 I've found durability to be equal when comparing the two co.'s products. I will admit I've seen a couple more out of the box glitches with Streamlight but they have excellent customer service and will make it right. Our Streamlight Scorpions have gotten torture tested more than the SF stuff and we've yet to replace even a bulb. The LED market is new for both companies but both pride themselves on having a great product and their product guarantee shows it. The TL-2 LED has a runtime of 3.5 hours of 30 lumens high output brightness followed by 20 hours of lower output degrading brightness. Price range is approx. $58. The SF KL3 is rated: 19 lumens max output for 4.25 hours, followed by 4.75 hours of moderate output, followed by over 50 hours of minimum output. Price range is approx. $48 for the KL3 head only. The performance comparison shows that the TL-2 will easily beat the KL3 in long range illumination. At close range the KL3 will have a broader field of light but it does have a pale purplish/blueish tint. The TL-2 has a more white color but does have a slight yellow tint. For a truer white LED illumination you have to go up to the 5w Surefire L4 or Streamlight TL-3 (let me know if you want that comparison.) Here is a pic I took to show a gentleman the size comparison of models he was inquiring about - [img]http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-8/315352/_SF_STR.jpg[/img] The Streamlight TL series is the exact same size whether it's LED or std. xenon lamp. The SF L4 is built off the E2E but it does have a slightly larger bezel. The below pic has an L4 in it (from Top-Bottom: A2 Aviator/E2E-CJ/L4/C2-CJ). [img]http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-8/315352/Im001147.jpg[/img] Surefire LED link - [url]http://www.san.surefire.com/cgi-bin/main/co_disp/displ/strfnbr/6/pgname/ledlights[/url] Streamlight LED links - TL series - [url]http://www.streamlight.com/tl-nf_info.htm[/url] Twin-Task series - [url]http://www.streamlight.com/tasklight_info.htm[/url] ProPolymer series - [url]http://www.streamlight.com/propoly_intro.htm[/url] KeyMate - [url]http://www.streamlight.com/keymate_info.htm[/url] |
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With respect, comparing one manufacturer's output/runtime specs to another manufacturer's specs is pointless. The only output/runtime specs I believe are not hyped are those provided by SureFire and Arc. Streamlight's output/runtime specs do not appear to be as scientific. Please see this thread on CandlePowerForums: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB16&Number=362698&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1#Post381986 "Quickbeam" has produced a chart that I think you'll find it more useful. The "TL-2 LED" is the "Streamlight Tactical TL-2 (1LS)" The SureFire "KL3" is the "SureFire KL3 White (1LS)". Please take the time to read the text above the chart as it is useful to understand it. Best regards, Al |
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Quoted: With respect, comparing one manufacturer's output/runtime specs to another manufacturer's specs is pointless. The only output/runtime specs I believe are not hyped are those provided by SureFire and Arc. Streamlight's output/runtime specs do not appear to be as scientific. I can agree to a point that Streamlight is off on their lumen ratings and to a certain degree also off on runtime. I have never shyed away from telling folks that and have always given them actual side-by-side performance comparisons. We should all realize that when it comes to debating runtime it depends upon the style of use. Prolonged sessions of constant on will kill batteries much quicker than what any manufacturer cares to advertise. Revising that chart from CPF to show the LED's we're focusing on in this discussion shows what I'm trying to express about LED performance. Here's the chart - [img]http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-8/315352/THROWLED.gif[/img] With most folks who are used to the performance of std. incadescent lights like a Surefire, it can be a rude awakening when they install a KL3 and find out it won't illuminate much farther than 7 or 8 yds. outdoors. LED's are new to a lot of folks, someone who had an E1 (rated at 15 lumens) might think that the KL1 (rated at 17 lumens) will be a worthy upgrade but then be totally disappointed when they discover it won't light even a third of the distance of the MNO1 lamp. The output factor is a useful rating if you're wanting to use the light for close quarters ONLY for simple situations like power outages, camping, etc. For more demanding situations the throw, or concentrated performance of a light is much more crucial. For example, working on a vehicle in complete darkness is much easier with a light that has better throw than one that just emits light in a broad form. Streamlight has done a great job with their lights & their pricing. Their target 'audience' isn't really going after SF. They simply offer a tough product that will cover the needs of many but at a more affordable price. For professional situations, tactical purposes, weapons purposes or the need for adaptability/customization then Surefire is pretty much what you want to be looking at. It is easy to see that they've been focusing on the needs of the extreme. It all boils down to what you need for the desired task, but for some, price is also a factor. And if that's the case, then at least they have other options. That's how I look at it. |
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Close range is where the LED's really shine. A broad, even, diffuse beam is perfect indoors. I'm not sure they will ever replace incadescents for long-range illumination, but I definately like the high-incandescent/low-LED setup on the A2. The major drawback to the SF lights at close and medium range is the intense hotspot. For me, this overwhelms my eye and makes the corona useless. I have to sweep a narrow beam of light around like a surgical laser. The LED's light up an entire wall of a room rather evenly, so the alignment of the light on the target isn't as critical. I run tip-off beamshapers on all of my SF lights except the turboheads for this reason. |
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Quoted: With most folks who are used to the performance of std. incadescent lights like a Surefire, it can be a rude awakening when they install a KL3 and find out it won't illuminate much farther than 7 or 8 yds. outdoors. I agree that LED lights lack the "throw" of Incandesants. But my back yard is at least 20 yards wide and my KL3 on a 6volt tube will light up fence at that distance. |
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In my experience, the smoother and wider beam of the LED makes it more useful. The hotspot of incandescent lights can wash out the less intense corona, and make it useless. Ideally, we could have both in the same light. The newer SF KL5 and KL6 are 5w LEDs, with deep reflectors. We'll see how they far they throw. |
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