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Posted: 12/28/2015 6:56:48 PM EDT
| I recently just built my first AR. I went with a pair of DD fixed iron sights which i love and are sighted in. For Christmas i bought myself an aimpoint pro. My Question is, should the red dot be aligned with the top of the sight post on my irons? I know it has to be sighted in but i thought that would be a good starting point. The aimpoint has the standard mount it comes with which i believe co witnesses' with my irons. Also, at home i tried bringing the dot down to the top of my post and it seemed like it would only go down to a certain point then stop and not reach the post on my irons.I'll be doing a range trip tomorrow to sight it in so any input would be a huge help. |
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I recently just built my first AR. I went with a pair of DD fixed iron sights which i love and are sighted in. For Christmas i bought myself an aimpoint pro. My Question is, should the red dot be aligned with the top of the sight post on my irons? I know it has to be sighted in but i thought that would be a good starting point. The aimpoint has the standard mount it comes with which i believe co witnesses' with my irons. Also, at home i tried bringing the dot down to the top of my post and it seemed like it would only go down to a certain point then stop and not reach the post on my irons.I'll be doing a range trip tomorrow to sight it in so any input would be a huge help. Forget where the dot sits relative to the post. Pretend the post doesn't exist and zero your PRO. When both are zeroed independently, the dot may or may not sit at the top of the post. It doesn't matter. Also depends on your mount height. A lower 1/3 mount height will be above any regulation size fsb or front sight post. Absolute cowitness heights and their optics should be zeroed as mentioned above (as should any optic/mount system)...independent of your backup sights. |
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Forget where the dot sits relative to the post. Pretend the post doesn't exist and zero your PRO. When both are zeroed independently, the dot may or may not sit at the top of the post. It doesn't matter. Also depends on your mount height. A lower 1/3 mount height will be above any regulation size fsb or front sight post. Absolute cowitness heights and their optics should be zeroed as mentioned above (as should any optic/mount system)...independent of your backup sights. Quoted:
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I recently just built my first AR. I went with a pair of DD fixed iron sights which i love and are sighted in. For Christmas i bought myself an aimpoint pro. My Question is, should the red dot be aligned with the top of the sight post on my irons? I know it has to be sighted in but i thought that would be a good starting point. The aimpoint has the standard mount it comes with which i believe co witnesses' with my irons. Also, at home i tried bringing the dot down to the top of my post and it seemed like it would only go down to a certain point then stop and not reach the post on my irons.I'll be doing a range trip tomorrow to sight it in so any input would be a huge help. Forget where the dot sits relative to the post. Pretend the post doesn't exist and zero your PRO. When both are zeroed independently, the dot may or may not sit at the top of the post. It doesn't matter. Also depends on your mount height. A lower 1/3 mount height will be above any regulation size fsb or front sight post. Absolute cowitness heights and their optics should be zeroed as mentioned above (as should any optic/mount system)...independent of your backup sights. none of this makes sense. the whole point of cowitnessing is that when both are zeroed the DOT will ALIGN with your iron sights.... also lower 1/3 and absolute just means where the dot will end up in the tube of the RDS... OP, how are your irons sighted in? do you cover the target with the tip of the FSP or do you use a "lollipop" sight picture? with your rifle shouldered, proper cheekweld and your iron sights aligned, see where the dot falls. adjust accordingly ensuring to get back to your normal cheekweld/sight picture each time you check. this will get you pretty much dead on. i've used this method for 3 aimpoints and been dead on at 50yds every time. |
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Realistically they both should end up being at point of impact.
The issue you have to overcome here is that the red dot will only exactly align when the point of impact is the same AND your iron sight alignment and cheekweld are the same. Getting all three of those things exact is very difficult Yes you should zero both your RDS and iron separately. That is the most accurate way. Can you put the dot on top (near) the zero for your irons and be pretty close? Yes. Most folks start that way since it should save you some shots to get you on the paper at least. Hope that helps. YMMV as they say. Some folks even go the other way and zero the dot first and then adjust the irons. 
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| This is why im confused, I thought that i would save some ammo by putting the red dot on the tip of my irons. When i shoot with my irons i use the tip and the rest covers my target. I watched a video today saying that if i put my red dot on the tip of my iron where i usually aim that i would end up saving some ammo. Ive been shooting with these irons the last three range trips and no problem everything is going where i want so i know they are good to go. I'll be at the range tomorrow with the red dot so i'll just start form scratch with that and see where the red dot ends up when i am done. |
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This is why im confused, I thought that i would save some ammo by putting the red dot on the tip of my irons. When i shoot with my irons i use the tip and the rest covers my target. I watched a video today saying that if i put my red dot on the tip of my iron where i usually aim that i would end up saving some ammo. Ive been shooting with these irons the last three range trips and no problem everything is going where i want so i know they are good to go. I'll be at the range tomorrow with the red dot so i'll just start form scratch with that and see where the red dot ends up when i am done. What is the height of your mount? If a lower 1/3 then you'd be forcing your head on the stock to have the dot sit on top of the post. Either way, it's clearly causing you concern as you're trying it now. Forget the post and go zero the PRO. If you're off paper with your 1st three shots, you may end up using a whole 6-9 more rounds at most for zero. |
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What is the height of your mount? If a lower 1/3 then you'd be forcing your head on the stock to have the dot sit on top of the post. Either way, it's clearly causing you concern as you're trying it now. Forget the post and go zero the PRO. If you're off paper with your 1st three shots, you may end up using a whole 6-9 more rounds at most for zero. Quoted:
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This is why im confused, I thought that i would save some ammo by putting the red dot on the tip of my irons. When i shoot with my irons i use the tip and the rest covers my target. I watched a video today saying that if i put my red dot on the tip of my iron where i usually aim that i would end up saving some ammo. Ive been shooting with these irons the last three range trips and no problem everything is going where i want so i know they are good to go. I'll be at the range tomorrow with the red dot so i'll just start form scratch with that and see where the red dot ends up when i am done. What is the height of your mount? If a lower 1/3 then you'd be forcing your head on the stock to have the dot sit on top of the post. Either way, it's clearly causing you concern as you're trying it now. Forget the post and go zero the PRO. If you're off paper with your 1st three shots, you may end up using a whole 6-9 more rounds at most for zero. No you won't. Where the fuck are you coming up with this crap? Line up your iron sights like normal. The dot will align with the iron sights naturally just lower in the tube. You are not changing the sight plane with a lower 1/3 cowitness mount, just raising the RDS higher for more heads up shooting when not cowitnessing (or using) the irons. I own 2 Comp M2, 1 Comp M3, 2 Comp M4s, and 3 T2s. Most of them lower 1/3, the T2s are all absolute. The dots all COWITNESS the iron sights with a normal sight picture. All of them were sighted in off the irons and magically worked at 50yds. with the lower 1/3, I can raise my head off the stock and the dot goes back to the center of the tube and allows me to shoot with more situational awareness and see other targets down range or in my peripheral. That's the whole point of cowitness. The dot and the irons line up. 
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No you won't. Where the fuck are you coming up with this crap? Line up your iron sights like normal. The dot will align with the iron sights naturally just lower in the tube. You are not changing the sight plane with a lower 1/3 cowitness mount, just raising the RDS higher for more heads up shooting when not cowitnessing (or using) the irons. I own 2 Comp M2, 1 Comp M3, 2 Comp M4s, and 3 T2s. Most of them lower 1/3, the T2s are all absolute. The dots all COWITNESS the iron sights with a normal sight picture. All of them were sighted in off the irons and magically worked at 50yds. with the lower 1/3, I can raise my head off the stock and the dot goes back to the center of the tube and allows me to shoot with more situational awareness and see other targets down range or in my peripheral. That's the whole point of cowitness. The dot and the irons line up. Quoted:
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This is why im confused, I thought that i would save some ammo by putting the red dot on the tip of my irons. When i shoot with my irons i use the tip and the rest covers my target. I watched a video today saying that if i put my red dot on the tip of my iron where i usually aim that i would end up saving some ammo. Ive been shooting with these irons the last three range trips and no problem everything is going where i want so i know they are good to go. I'll be at the range tomorrow with the red dot so i'll just start form scratch with that and see where the red dot ends up when i am done. What is the height of your mount? If a lower 1/3 then you'd be forcing your head on the stock to have the dot sit on top of the post. Either way, it's clearly causing you concern as you're trying it now. Forget the post and go zero the PRO. If you're off paper with your 1st three shots, you may end up using a whole 6-9 more rounds at most for zero. No you won't. Where the fuck are you coming up with this crap? Line up your iron sights like normal. The dot will align with the iron sights naturally just lower in the tube. You are not changing the sight plane with a lower 1/3 cowitness mount, just raising the RDS higher for more heads up shooting when not cowitnessing (or using) the irons. I own 2 Comp M2, 1 Comp M3, 2 Comp M4s, and 3 T2s. Most of them lower 1/3, the T2s are all absolute. The dots all COWITNESS the iron sights with a normal sight picture. All of them were sighted in off the irons and magically worked at 50yds. with the lower 1/3, I can raise my head off the stock and the dot goes back to the center of the tube and allows me to shoot with more situational awareness and see other targets down range or in my peripheral. That's the whole point of cowitness. The dot and the irons line up. Then you're in the minority. Most will say zero them independent of one another. And you raise your head off the stock for your lower 1/3rd mount? How tall is the mount? 8 inches? Glad you're hip firing with full peripheral view. OP, zero your Aimpoint independent of your irons. |
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OP wants to get a rough zero by cowitnessing. It's not only possible but very effective.
Yes I raise my head off the stock with a lower 1/3rd mount since the mount is higher and once the RDS is zeroed you don't need a proper cheek weld or to shoot NTCH. That whole parallax free thing. Hip firing really? I've been shooting aimpoints on my ARs for 13 years. Guess my experience counts for jack shit. OP do what you want. Waste a ton of ammo and time. Or get yourself sighted in before the first ceasefire and spend the rest of the day enjoying your AR. Article on cowitnessing |
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Now that's a bit much. Always zero independently even if you visually see the two systems as aligned. Always. Quoted:
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Waste a ton of ammo and time. Or get yourself sighted in before the first ceasefire and spend the rest of the day enjoying your AR. Now that's a bit much. Always zero independently even if you visually see the two systems as aligned. Always. Again, I've zeroed 8 different Aimpoints in the method described in the article I posted. Most of them I did at home. Take it to the range and fire 10 rounds to confirm, and they are spot on at 50yds (where I zero BUIS). How many RDS do you own? What benefit are you gaining zeroing independently or are you just repeating BS you read online? Zeroed is zeroed. Get the dot lined up with the irons. Fire a confirmation group with your RDS only. Make adjustments if necessary (which in my experience has been none). Done. |
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Again, I've zeroed 8 different Aimpoints in the method described in the article I posted. Most of them I did at home. Take it to the range and fire 10 rounds to confirm, and they are spot on at 50yds (where I zero BUIS). How many RDS do you own? What benefit are you gaining zeroing independently or are you just repeating BS you read online? Zeroed is zeroed. Get the dot lined up with the irons. Fire a confirmation group with your RDS only. Make adjustments if necessary (which in my experience has been none). Done. Quoted:
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Waste a ton of ammo and time. Or get yourself sighted in before the first ceasefire and spend the rest of the day enjoying your AR. Now that's a bit much. Always zero independently even if you visually see the two systems as aligned. Always. Again, I've zeroed 8 different Aimpoints in the method described in the article I posted. Most of them I did at home. Take it to the range and fire 10 rounds to confirm, and they are spot on at 50yds (where I zero BUIS). How many RDS do you own? What benefit are you gaining zeroing independently or are you just repeating BS you read online? Zeroed is zeroed. Get the dot lined up with the irons. Fire a confirmation group with your RDS only. Make adjustments if necessary (which in my experience has been none). Done. I own four. T-1's and T-2's. I think we're saying the same thing. I'm not hating your method as you're stating to "confirm" at the range. That's my sentiment with zeroing independently. Align with the front sight all you want. Confirming at a range is critical. If you have a headache with alignment, independent confirmation is key. |
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Quoted: With the RDS mounted. Sight in the irons. Align the RDS with the irons. Fine tune the RDS. (should only need a round or three). The PRO mount should allow cowitnessing with standard height irons. This right here. I had no problem zeroed my Aimpoint PRO like this. |
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This right here. I had no problem zeroed my Aimpoint PRO like this. Quoted:
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With the RDS mounted. Sight in the irons. Align the RDS with the irons. Fine tune the RDS. (should only need a round or three). The PRO mount should allow cowitnessing with standard height irons. This right here. I had no problem zeroed my Aimpoint PRO like this. This I don't understand the huge argument going on here
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This I don't understand the huge argument going on here
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With the RDS mounted. Sight in the irons. Align the RDS with the irons. Fine tune the RDS. (should only need a round or three). The PRO mount should allow cowitnessing with standard height irons. This right here. I had no problem zeroed my Aimpoint PRO like this. This I don't understand the huge argument going on here
I was wondering the same thing. Aligning with irons is sort of like bore sighting. It's not exact but it's a close starting point. |
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Pissing contest has lost sight (pardon the pun) of OP's question and objective. All he was trying to do was save ammo and get his red dot on the paper. Not sure why he could not get the dot to come down far enough. I'm more interested in what is going on there. He needs to be looking through his red dot with both his front and rear iron sights deployed, looking through the rear aperture.
If his irons put the bullet where he wants it, he can simply cowitness the dot off of his irons in this manner to save anmo and get on the paper. Then he can fine tune the dot. Gee, guys, have you no reading skills? |
| Alright everyone just got back from the range. The red dot from my aimpoint ended up right on at the top of my iron sight post at 50 yards. I appreciate everyone's help. I used to have an eotech and switched to the aimpoint and wasn't sure how i would like it but its awesome. I love the fact that i can just leave it on all the time. Thanks again |
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If my dot is on a qd mount I zero the irons and dot seperatly. I do this in case of any distorted view from the glass. It's qd so it'll come off anyway if it fails.
If I have a dot not on a qd mount I'll make sure I sight the or is in with the red dot mounted but not on. Then I fold down sights and zero red dot. I've never had them not be perfectly cowitnessed this way. As far as OP I don't see a problem using one to get a close zero for the other. Just get them close and verify each seperatly once you get to the range. Unless you have a qd mount like I mentioned. To be honest though, I've never had a dot not line up even when I did them separate. No glass distortion. I still do it out of OCD |
| I always sight my RDS and irons independently because if I ever have to use my buis, the RDS comes off. If you zero your buis with your RDS mounted, then take it off and use your buis, there may be poi shift... Kinda like how a pencil bends in water. The poi shift with a t2 is about 4moa if you sight the RDS and buis together, then take the RDS off. |
| its funny u say that, i was about the same, around 25-30 clicks. That's why when originally i was trying to bring the dot down to the iron post it wasn't really moving and that's originally why i started this post, i thought something was wrong. I have to say though now that it's all set up i cant wait to go shoot again. |
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I always sight my RDS and irons independently because if I ever have to use my buis, the RDS comes off. If you zero your buis with your RDS mounted, then take it off and use your buis, there may be poi shift... Kinda like how a pencil bends in water. The poi shift with a t2 is about 4moa if you sight the RDS and buis together, then take the RDS off. I realized that I forgot to open the rear lens cap when sighting it in. Oh well, more shooting this weekend... This will be interesting to see if there will be a POI shift with the rear cap open. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
| I didn't open the cap on mine either, cant wait to see your results. I just wasn't thinking about it, the range was packed. If there is a difference i might just take the cap off, defeats the purpose of having a see through cap on the back anyway. please keep me posted. |
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I always sight my RDS and irons independently because if I ever have to use my buis, the RDS comes off. If you zero your buis with your RDS mounted, then take it off and use your buis, there may be poi shift... Kinda like how a pencil bends in water. The poi shift with a t2 is about 4moa if you sight the RDS and buis together, then take the RDS off. So a T2 has parallax? |
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So a T2 has parallax? Quoted:
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I always sight my RDS and irons independently because if I ever have to use my buis, the RDS comes off. If you zero your buis with your RDS mounted, then take it off and use your buis, there may be poi shift... Kinda like how a pencil bends in water. The poi shift with a t2 is about 4moa if you sight the RDS and buis together, then take the RDS off. So a T2 has parallax? https://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=3&f=18&t=678845 |
| Thanks for the article. I'm one of those returning an Eotech,even thug I love the reticle. It looks like I can get an Aimpoint Pro Patrol for about $389 if I order today from Optics Planet. My eyes aren't the best which is why I bought the Eotech Very easy to pick up.Not true with the Aimpoint T1 I looked at. I can't find info on the dot size on the Aimpoint Pro Patrol. I see people talking of red dots with 4MOA dots but I can't find any. Is the dot on the Patrol easy to use? Thanks and Happy New Years. |
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Thanks for the article. I'm one of those returning an Eotech,even thug I love the reticle. It looks like I can get an Aimpoint Pro Patrol for about $389 if I order today from Optics Planet. My eyes aren't the best which is why I bought the Eotech Very easy to pick up.Not true with the Aimpoint T1 I looked at. I can't find info on the dot size on the Aimpoint Pro Patrol. I see people talking of red dots with 4MOA dots but I can't find any. Is the dot on the Patrol easy to use? Thanks and Happy New Years. Aimpoint PRO has a 2MOA dot. The T1, H1, and M3 come in a 4MOA option. If you can find a NOS or lightly used Comp M2 (original M68/CCO) those are 4MOA and could save you a bit of money. Some people crank the brightness all the way up on the 2MOA models to help see it better. |
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I didn't open the cap on mine either, cant wait to see your results. I just wasn't thinking about it, the range was packed. If there is a difference i might just take the cap off, defeats the purpose of having a see through cap on the back anyway. please keep me posted. OK, I ran several groups today with the rear cap open and closed and did not discern a significant POI shift either way. However, I seemed to shoot noticeably tighter groups with the rear cap open. I'd like to see others perform the same experiment to get a wider sample. I must also add that a slight shift would not have bothered me very much. |
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