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Posted: 5/25/2015 3:47:59 PM EDT
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Hello all. This is my first post, but I've been a long time googler who ends up in the site often. So thanks for all I've learned so far.
So I have recently assembled my first SPR ish AR. I did not try to make a clone or anything, but slapped an 18" heavy barrel and free floated it. I'm looking for a scope that will do some certain things, or as close as I can get in a certain price range. I'd love to hear yalls recommendations, or suggest something entirely different if I'm way off. I'd like to find the following specs for under $4/500. *mil dot or BDC *at least 10x mag *nothing higher than a 4x mag on low end *either capped or locking turrets (would rather holdover, and not accidentally lose zero) *FFP *be able to stand up to a little abuse. (Ex. Banged around in the truck, getting in and out.) *illumination would be cool, not the biggest deal though *decent glass (I'm not a scope guy, yet. so as long as it's useable.) I'd love to get into shooting a bit further, and this will definitely see some coyote and hog hunting, so I'd like it to not fall apart, but I don't have 1k to spend right now. I currently have a Bushnell AR 1-4 FFP w/ BDC on it now. So if you were me, how would you go about this? |
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Theres not many options with those features in your price range. Primary arms has all those features on a 4-14 FFP illuminated scope at $280. The other closest i found is the vortex viper pst 2.5-10 in ffp and illuminated for 800 brand new. These scopes are on EE all the time ranging anywhere from 800 w/ a mount to as low as 500 w/o mount. You can get the SFP version for 600 brand new. If your set on those features, i would definitely keep your eyes on EE to find a good deal. There are a couple on there right now as we speak but buyers are asking 700-800 with the mount. Im pretty sure there are a couple other brands that have most of those features but i cant think of any right now.
Roy |
| Thanks for the input guys. The goal would be to have all of those features. That said, I am willing to give up one or two if it means I can get a more durable scope. I think durability (scope retaining zero) is my biggest thing. I have a few red dots that are tanks And have complete confidence in. I'd like to have that same confidence in the scope I end up with. Is that possible for the price range I'm looking in? To me, which again, I am a scope amateur, I feel like scopes are knocked off zero easier. |
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If you can let go of the FFP feature and go with a SFP scope, the amount of options in your price range grow exponentially. Also, most mid-priced scopes from reputable brands will be durable enough. They might not track perfect but assuming your mount is solid, most will hold zero just fine. Some brands with mid-priced options to consider...leupold, vortex, burris, bushnell, nikon, weaver, swfa, pride fowler. Also while looking up some brands for you, i came across this sweet scope from a great company (pride fowler), illuminated bdc, ffp, and 30mm tube for $350.
http://swfa.com/Pride-Fowler-3-12x42-Evolution-556762-30mm-Rifle-Scope-P62900.aspx Again, if you decide to go SFP, your options will increase greatly. Roy |
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Most recommended scopes will not meet one or two of your specs. Biggest recommendations are:
Vortex 2.5-10x32. Great scope but a little above your budget. Leupold VXR Patrol 3-9. I'd but this scope if I did it again. It's SFP, but at or under 10x, second plane isn't a bad choice at all. It's small, light, and affordable. Bushnell 3-12x44 G2. Great reticle, but heavy and pricy unless you find a deal on a used one which are out there. Your budget is right on the cusp of well performing mid priced scopes. I'd recommend saving a little more an make sure to get a good mount (ADM, Bobro, Larue, etc). |
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I have two Leupold Mk4 3.5-10x one with FFP and one with SFP. I think FFP is useless in anything with 10x or less on the top end (unless it is 1x at the bottom, thats a different story) If you are going to mil targets you are going to do it on 10x 99% of the time.
You are going to limit your options greatly looking for FFP in that price range. |
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So the research I've done, and the responses I've received all seem to say A few things. I can get a scope with those features, in my range, but if I saved 100 to 200 more, I could get an exponentially better scope. Or wait for a good deal on used.
My current plan of attack is, I can always fall back onto the primary arms 4-14, but before actually purchasing that scope, I'll wait to check the EE, and in turn would be able to save more money. I really love the specs and everything the primary arms 4-14 has on paper. The reviews all seem to be good also, but I know they aren't necessarily the end all. Great for what you get it seems. As far as reliable, if I can, holding out for the leupold vxr looks bad to the bone, and it's an American made leupy. On a side note, ever since I started getting into shooting more seriously, I've realized I can't really say much to my girlfriend about shoes or anything like that haha! My accessories cost way more than hers! 
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If you had posted last week, this was in stock: http://www.natchezss.com/3-12x44-black-matte-illum.html Pretty good glass, FFP, Illuminated .mil based reticle, 1/10 mil turrets, 3-12x magnification - all for less than half of the MSRP.  You can probably find a used Viper 2.5-10x44 in your price range - everything you want except FFP. |
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Quoted:
So the research I've done, and the responses I've received all seem to say A few things. I can get a scope with those features, in my range, but if I saved 100 to 200 more, I could get an exponentially better scope. Or wait for a good deal on used. My current plan of attack is, I can always fall back onto the primary arms 4-14, but before actually purchasing that scope, I'll wait to check the EE, and in turn would be able to save more money. I really love the specs and everything the primary arms 4-14 has on paper. The reviews all seem to be good also, but I know they aren't necessarily the end all. Great for what you get it seems. As far as reliable, if I can, holding out for the leupold vxr looks bad to the bone, and it's an American made leupy. On a side note, ever since I started getting into shooting more seriously, I've realized I can't really say much to my girlfriend about shoes or anything like that haha! My accessories cost way more than hers! I briefly owned the primary arms 4-14ffp and sold it. For me the glass was just too low quality to be useable, I realize you get what you pay for and everyone's expectations are different but for me anything above 10x was like being in a smokey room. I know the Falcon Menace is similar and gets good reviews if you are stuck on FFP. If you aren't stuck on FFP there are many, many more options. |
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i picked up this for $166 this month its heavy, but is very bright its typically a 300 dollar scope |
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Quoted: i picked up thishttp://www.amazon.com/Vector-Optics-Siegfried-3-12X-Illumination/dp/B00LWRHYIG for $166 this month its heavy, but is very bright its typically a 300 dollar scope http://camelcamelcamel.com/Vector-Optics-Siegfried-3-12X-Illumination/product/B00LWRHYIG I've never heard of vector optics before. Let us know how it holds up. Did I read the description right that is has a 34mm tube? |
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Quoted: yep 34 mm tube and 28 oz it says it is 50bmg rated on the bell You should test it out If nothing else it would be nice to see it box tested and maybe compared with some other optics. I went ahead and put a low price watch on camel camel camel for it. How do the turrets feel? Is the glass pretty fuzzy? ETA: Most Vector threads aren't very kind: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=82995 http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_18/525967_.html http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1148084_.html |
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the top turret is very tall with its up down indicator I wonder who they cloned that off of?  i ordered a PRI intermediate rail last weekend, so I hope to get it mounted soon for $166 i figured it might be worth evaluating |
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Quoted:
If you had posted last week, this was in stock: http://www.natchezss.com/3-12x44-black-matte-illum.html Pretty good glass, FFP, Illuminated .mil based reticle, 1/10 mil turrets, 3-12x magnification - all for less than half of the MSRP.
You can probably find a used Viper 2.5-10x44 in your price range - everything you want except FFP. Wow! Always a day late and a dollar short! Haha that was an amazing deal! I guess the FFP would just make things a little easier I feel like. But it is something I could live without If I had to. |
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Quoted: Don't waste your hard earned money on low cost, poor quality optics. Save for a while and get a Nightforce 2.5-10X MIL-MIL or other top tier scope. In the long run you will be happy that you did. Nightforce is great, but not everyone has $1500 to spend on an optic. Lot's of guys are getting good results with $300 to $1000 optics. I believe most users of Vortex Vipers, Bushnell Elite Tactical and Burris XTR II scopes are happy with them and they're all less than the NF. |
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Back to the OP's original question. I believe the Burris XTR II line would work very well for you at just a little over your original budget. Here is the FFP 2-10x42 for ~$700: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Burris-XTR-II-Scope-2-10x42mm-Md-201020-/151635196234?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item234e29794a#ht_2368wt_924 I would take the XTR II over the Viper as I have heard multiple reports the glass is better. I have not used the XTR II yet, though I do have several Vipers and I have been fairly happy with them. Burris also offers a XTR II 3-15X, which I would prefer in the SPR role. My current SPR wears the Viper HS-T 5-15X, it used to have the Viper PST 2.5-10x44, but I liked having more magnification and swapped it. |
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For a capped turret scope with illumination, the power range , and a BDC type reticle, perhaps the 4x12x40 or 4x12x50 Leupold VX-R. It is also available with a custom CDS elevation turret. Very solid construction while extremely light for its power range. Optical quality is as good as it gets at its price point, and the Firedot reticle is amazing motion activated technology.
I have the VX-R Patrol 3-9x40 version with MRAD exposed turrets and Firedot TMR MRAD reticle. But, if I wanted a bit more upper end power and capped turrets and BDC capability this would be my choice. http://www.leupold.com/hunting-shooting/scopes/vx-r-riflescopes/vx-r-4-12x40mm/ Street price for the 4-12x version with the Ballistic Firedot should be about $600. At 12x and under, FFP does not offer much, and can be a serious detriment at low power. If going FFP reticle, be sure to check out the visibility of the reticle at low power, especially in low light. FFP reticles and hunting usually do not go well together, especially in low light. I would humbly suggest that the 3-9x40mm Patrol with exposed MRAD turrets and matching reticle is a better SPR choice for medium variable power, unless you are really going to shoot beyond 500 yards regularly. The exposed turrets can be moved, obviously, but it does take effort and has not proven to be a problem for me in about 2-1/2 years of regular field use, mostly hunting. The marks are highly visible and if they move, can be easily reset. Even if they somehow moved it's not like they would move more than a few tenths of a mill in either direction, and could be quickly reset to zero. If it really bothers you, you can simply wrap electrical tape around the turrets to lock them in place and use the MRAD reticle for you hold over and hold off, and remove the tape to change zero for a different load. |
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Quoted:
For a capped turret scope with illumination, the power range , and a BDC type reticle, perhaps the 4x12x40 or 4x12x50 Leupold VX-R. It is also available with a custom CDS elevation turret. Very solid construction while extremely light for its power range. Optical quality is as good as it gets at its price point, and the Firedot reticle is amazing motion activated technology. I have the VX-R Patrol 3-9x40 version with MRAD exposed turrets and Firedot TMR MRAD reticle. But, if I wanted a bit more upper end power and capped turrets and BDC capability this would be my choice. http://www.leupold.com/hunting-shooting/scopes/vx-r-riflescopes/vx-r-4-12x40mm/ Street price for the 4-12x version with the Ballistic Firedot should be about $600. At 12x and under, FFP does not offer much, and can be a serious detriment at low power. If going FFP reticle, be sure to check out the visibility of the reticle at low power, especially in low light. FFP reticles and hunting usually do not go well together, especially in low light. I would humbly suggest that the 3-9x40mm Patrol with exposed MRAD turrets and matching reticle is a better SPR choice for medium variable power, unless you are really going to shoot beyond 500 yards regularly. The exposed turrets can be moved, obviously, but it does take effort and has not proven to be a problem for me in about 2-1/2 years of regular field use, mostly hunting. The marks are highly visible and if they move, can be easily reset. Even if they somehow moved it's not like they would move more than a few tenths of a mill in either direction, and could be quickly reset to zero. If it really bothers you, you can simply wrap electrical tape around the turrets to lock them in place and use the MRAD reticle for you hold over and hold off, and remove the tape to change zero for a different load. Bought this scope at Lanbos Armory for $525.00 Delivered in March of this year. 4x12x40 Firedot Leupold. Very nice. |
| I second or third what MS556 says on the 3-9 Patrol. It can be had for around $550 new. Also, as was stated, some FFP reticles can be hard to use at the lower power, that's why I had to ditch my Vortex 2.5-10x32 PST. Loved everything about the scope except that my eyes couldn't really use the reticle at 2.5 power. But that's just me, and if using only from the bench, it might have worked for me. Look at the Patrol, it's light weight, good glass, and right in your price range. |
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I second or third what MS556 says on the 3-9 Patrol. It can be had for around $550 new. Also, as was stated, some FFP reticles can be hard to use at the lower power, that's why I had to ditch my Vortex 2.5-10x32 PST. Loved everything about the scope except that my eyes couldn't really use the reticle at 2.5 power. But that's just me, and if using only from the bench, it might have worked for me. Look at the Patrol, it's light weight, good glass, and right in your price range. Yeah the patrol looks amazing. Plus I love the fact that it's Leupold. They always seem to have a great track record. So far I have it down to the Leupold VXR 3-9, idk yet if it would be a patrol or not, probably depends on which one I find a good deal in first. I've also read good stuff on the Nikon M223. Not entirely read up on the difference in that and the P223 yet. Then Vortex has some good offerings. Last but not least the Primary Arms 4-14 has almost everything I'd want, but IDK how it would hold up in comparison to the Leupolds and other scope I listed. I have heard nothing but good about it though. See, my list is still too big! So many awesome scopes. Makes it hard to pull the trigger, especially since I'd like whichever I choose to last me for a long time. 
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Nikon M-223 has "M" glass (Monarch 3), which is pretty good, mych better than in the P-223 ("P" glass is Pro Staff) series, but not in the same league as the VX-R. I have Nikon Monarch scopes too.
One issue I have with the M-223 is the reticle choice and the turrets. Nikon continues to push its hokey BDC reticle on us with all those little circles. A true MRAD system with both MRAD turrets and reticle (the Patrol) or matching MOA turrets and reticle would be much better. For the life of me, I do not know why Nikon does not simply adopt either MRAD or MOA and build its scope with matching reticles and turrets in one of those universal systems. The second issue is that it is heavier than the Patrol, and not be a small amount, yet has only one inch main tube construction, which is baffling to me. The third issue is one of value. It is priced less, but it lacks any form of illumination and certainly not anything like the Firedot reticle offered in the VX-R scopes. Were I to be in the market for a non-illuminated scope with similar features and try to safe a few bucks, i would much prefer (oh, yes, I did) the Weaver Grand Slam Tactical 3-10x40mm over the Nikon M-223 line. It has excellent Japanese glass, roughly equal to that in the Monarch 3 line of Nikon, including the M-223, but has the preferred MRAD tactical turrets and MRAD mil-dot reticle. It is a solidly constructed scope that tracks accurately and repeatedly and is an incredible bargain. It is a MidwayUSA exclusive with Weaver, list priced at $399, but usually on sale for only $299. It has no illumination. It is one inch tube construction, but I rate it better than a comparably spec'd M-223, like the 2-8 or 3-12 versions. |
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