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Posted: 8/15/2014 8:41:11 AM EDT
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hey guys
i was planning on buying an eotech sometime very soon. i dont want to spend another 150 on a more expensive model to get a lower 1/3 cowitness. is there a mount at a REASONABLE price, that wont lose zero easily, that i can buy to make a 512 go from a absolute to a lower 1/3? really appreciate all this site has done for me thanks for the help |
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hey guys i was planning on buying an eotech sometime very soon. i dont want to spend another 150 on a more expensive model to get a lower 1/3 cowitness. is there a mount at a REASONABLE price, that wont throw off my zero, that i can buy to make a 512 go from a absolute to a lower 1/3? really appreciate all this site has done for me thanks for the help Any mount is going to change your zero. You're moving the location of the dot. You'd need a 7mm riser, I believe LaRue makes one, but you'll be spending just as much as the upgrade to the EXPS line. Hell, I just sold an EXPS for $425. |
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You can get a YHM one for like $40.
I personally like absolute cowitness. I use my back ups as back ups... they aren't going to be up if the optic is working and if the optic fails, i rather be looking through the center of the window than the bottom part. i have spent a decent amount of time with the lower 1/3 but it just never looked right to me so I have completely abandoned it now. |
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You can get a YHM one for like $40. I personally like absolute cowitness. I use my back ups as back ups... they aren't going to be up if the optic is working and if the optic fails, i rather be looking through the center of the window than the bottom part. i have spent a decent amount of time with the lower 1/3 but it just never looked right to me so I have completely abandoned it now. If you use flip up back up sights, there's no reason to use a lower 1/3rd cowitness either. The only reason the lower 1/3 cowitness exists is for those using fixed sights to have a less cluttered FOV. If you have flip ups, using a standard cowitness will make you more consistent with both the optic and the irons because your cheek weld will never change. |
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If you use flip up back up sights, there's no reason to use a lower 1/3rd cowitness either. The only reason the lower 1/3 cowitness exists is for those using fixed sights to have a less cluttered FOV. If you have flip ups, using a standard cowitness will make you more consistent with both the optic and the irons because your cheek weld will never change. Quoted:
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You can get a YHM one for like $40. I personally like absolute cowitness. I use my back ups as back ups... they aren't going to be up if the optic is working and if the optic fails, i rather be looking through the center of the window than the bottom part. i have spent a decent amount of time with the lower 1/3 but it just never looked right to me so I have completely abandoned it now. If you use flip up back up sights, there's no reason to use a lower 1/3rd cowitness either. The only reason the lower 1/3 cowitness exists is for those using fixed sights to have a less cluttered FOV. If you have flip ups, using a standard cowitness will make you more consistent with both the optic and the irons because your cheek weld will never change. A lot of people prefer the head position and cheek weld of a lower 1/3 height, especially when using 1x optics like the eotech and aimpoint, myself included. IMO, there's no reason for absolute height for a 1x optic, unless you're really short or bench shooting with it. |
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If you use flip up back up sights, there's no reason to use a lower 1/3rd cowitness either. The only reason the lower 1/3 cowitness exists is for those using fixed sights to have a less cluttered FOV. If you have flip ups, using a standard cowitness will make you more consistent with both the optic and the irons because your cheek weld will never change. Quoted:
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You can get a YHM one for like $40. I personally like absolute cowitness. I use my back ups as back ups... they aren't going to be up if the optic is working and if the optic fails, i rather be looking through the center of the window than the bottom part. i have spent a decent amount of time with the lower 1/3 but it just never looked right to me so I have completely abandoned it now. If you use flip up back up sights, there's no reason to use a lower 1/3rd cowitness either. The only reason the lower 1/3 cowitness exists is for those using fixed sights to have a less cluttered FOV. If you have flip ups, using a standard cowitness will make you more consistent with both the optic and the irons because your cheek weld will never change. Maybe you should warn these guys: 
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Maybe you should warn these guys: <a href="https://flic.kr/p/oJX7pX" target="_blank">https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3879/14925894461_b5baf29620_b.jpg</a> <a href="https://flic.kr/p/osJc8q" target="_blank">https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3863/14742309930_d448ec9eb7_b.jpg</a> <a href="https://flic.kr/p/osJ8FA" target="_blank">https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5566/14742298340_8ea78f5bdb_b.jpg</a> <a href="https://flic.kr/p/oKehAR" target="_blank">https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5562/14929050525_5d2533540d_b.jpg</a> Quoted:
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You can get a YHM one for like $40. I personally like absolute cowitness. I use my back ups as back ups... they aren't going to be up if the optic is working and if the optic fails, i rather be looking through the center of the window than the bottom part. i have spent a decent amount of time with the lower 1/3 but it just never looked right to me so I have completely abandoned it now. If you use flip up back up sights, there's no reason to use a lower 1/3rd cowitness either. The only reason the lower 1/3 cowitness exists is for those using fixed sights to have a less cluttered FOV. If you have flip ups, using a standard cowitness will make you more consistent with both the optic and the irons because your cheek weld will never change. Maybe you should warn these guys: <a href="https://flic.kr/p/oJX7pX" target="_blank">https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3879/14925894461_b5baf29620_b.jpg</a> <a href="https://flic.kr/p/osJc8q" target="_blank">https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3863/14742309930_d448ec9eb7_b.jpg</a> <a href="https://flic.kr/p/osJ8FA" target="_blank">https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5566/14742298340_8ea78f5bdb_b.jpg</a> <a href="https://flic.kr/p/oKehAR" target="_blank">https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5562/14929050525_5d2533540d_b.jpg</a> Okay? Never said it was wrong one way or the other. Can you point out anything I said that was "wrong" or are you just here to show pictures for no reason? Tell me - as someone who is a new shooter (like OP appears to be) you want to be consistent and build good fundamentals, right? Having the same cheek weld no matter what you're shooting with helps to build that base. Your more advanced shooters don't have that issue since they already have the fundamental knowledge. Telling a new shooter put your head here for this, now put your head here for this is just going to lead to confusion and less consistency. |
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Okay? Never said it was wrong one way or the other. Can you point out anything I said that was "wrong" or are you just here to show pictures for no reason? Quoted:
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You can get a YHM one for like $40. I personally like absolute cowitness. I use my back ups as back ups... they aren't going to be up if the optic is working and if the optic fails, i rather be looking through the center of the window than the bottom part. i have spent a decent amount of time with the lower 1/3 but it just never looked right to me so I have completely abandoned it now. If you use flip up back up sights, there's no reason to use a lower 1/3rd cowitness either. The only reason the lower 1/3 cowitness exists is for those using fixed sights to have a less cluttered FOV. If you have flip ups, using a standard cowitness will make you more consistent with both the optic and the irons because your cheek weld will never change. Maybe you should warn these guys: <a href="https://flic.kr/p/oJX7pX" target="_blank">https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3879/14925894461_b5baf29620_b.jpg</a> <a href="https://flic.kr/p/osJc8q" target="_blank">https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3863/14742309930_d448ec9eb7_b.jpg</a> <a href="https://flic.kr/p/osJ8FA" target="_blank">https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5566/14742298340_8ea78f5bdb_b.jpg</a> <a href="https://flic.kr/p/oKehAR" target="_blank">https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5562/14929050525_5d2533540d_b.jpg</a> Okay? Never said it was wrong one way or the other. Can you point out anything I said that was "wrong" or are you just here to show pictures for no reason? You said there is "no reason" when the fact of the matter is, that's just your opinion. Your statement made it seem like it was wrong. |
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Okay? Never said it was wrong one way or the other. Can you point out anything I said that was "wrong" or are you just here to show pictures for no reason? Tell me - as someone who is a new shooter (like OP appears to be) you want to be consistent and build good fundamentals, right? Having the same cheek weld no matter what you're shooting with helps to build that base. Your more advanced shooters don't have that issue since they already have the fundamental knowledge. Telling a new shooter put your head here for this, now put your head here for this is just going to lead to confusion and less consistency. Quoted:
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You can get a YHM one for like $40. I personally like absolute cowitness. I use my back ups as back ups... they aren't going to be up if the optic is working and if the optic fails, i rather be looking through the center of the window than the bottom part. i have spent a decent amount of time with the lower 1/3 but it just never looked right to me so I have completely abandoned it now. If you use flip up back up sights, there's no reason to use a lower 1/3rd cowitness either. The only reason the lower 1/3 cowitness exists is for those using fixed sights to have a less cluttered FOV. If you have flip ups, using a standard cowitness will make you more consistent with both the optic and the irons because your cheek weld will never change. Maybe you should warn these guys: <a href="https://flic.kr/p/oJX7pX" target="_blank">https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3879/14925894461_b5baf29620_b.jpg</a> <a href="https://flic.kr/p/osJc8q" target="_blank">https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3863/14742309930_d448ec9eb7_b.jpg</a> <a href="https://flic.kr/p/osJ8FA" target="_blank">https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5566/14742298340_8ea78f5bdb_b.jpg</a> <a href="https://flic.kr/p/oKehAR" target="_blank">https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5562/14929050525_5d2533540d_b.jpg</a> Okay? Never said it was wrong one way or the other. Can you point out anything I said that was "wrong" or are you just here to show pictures for no reason? Tell me - as someone who is a new shooter (like OP appears to be) you want to be consistent and build good fundamentals, right? Having the same cheek weld no matter what you're shooting with helps to build that base. Your more advanced shooters don't have that issue since they already have the fundamental knowledge. Telling a new shooter put your head here for this, now put your head here for this is just going to lead to confusion and less consistency. Never had an issue teaching a new shooter to shoot a rifle with irons and a lower 1/3rd optic. You can still keep your head in the same place if you don't care about having the aiming point in the lower part of the optic..... I see what you're saying but I think you're overthinking it. I don't shoot an optic NTCH, whereas I do shoot irons that way. Ends up different no matter what I do! |
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Is there a reason? Other than personal preference? Quoted:
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You said there is "no reason" when the fact of the matter is, that's just your opinion. Your statement made it seem like it was wrong. Is there a reason? Other than personal preference? Yes there are reasons. It works better(for most). It provides Better peripheral vision, faster to pick up reticle, Larger and more forgiving eye box, comm. ear pro gets in the way of a lower cheek weld, It;s why it;s the "standard" height for 1x optics and magnified optics as well. |
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Never had an issue teaching a new shooter to shoot a rifle with irons and a lower 1/3rd optic. You can still keep your head in the same place if you don't care about having the aiming point in the lower part of the optic..... I see what you're saying but I think you're overthinking it. I don't shoot an optic NTCH, whereas I do shoot irons that way. Ends up different no matter what I do! Quoted:
Never had an issue teaching a new shooter to shoot a rifle with irons and a lower 1/3rd optic. You can still keep your head in the same place if you don't care about having the aiming point in the lower part of the optic..... I see what you're saying but I think you're overthinking it. I don't shoot an optic NTCH, whereas I do shoot irons that way. Ends up different no matter what I do! I see it as the opposite I guess - I try to make it as simple as possible. Head goes to the exact same place every time. NTCH no matter it's magnified optic, red dot, or irons. While I'm okay with the dot being in the lower portion of the optic without the sights, an overwhelming majority of the people I try and teach want to put the dot on top of the front sight post. This ranges from completely new shooters to those who have been fudds their whole life. With the absolute cowitness, they can do that without thinking or having the iron sight up. With the lower 1/3rd they kinda move around a bit before they realize it's okay that the dot isn't perfectly centered or on top of the post - which ever head position they pick. FWIW: I have all lower 1/3rd cowitness mounts. One rifle has flip ups one is fixed. Quoted:
Yes there are reasons. It works better(for most). It provides Better peripheral vision, faster to pick up reticle, Larger and more forgiving eye box, comm. ear pro gets in the way of a lower cheek weld, It;s why it;s the "standard" height for 1x optics and magnified optics as well. How is peripheral vision changed at all? Faster to pick up reticle is also subjective. Eye box is unchanged - it's a red dot, not a magnified scope. Couldn't comment on the communication stuff since I have not had that issue/used communication systems other than standard ear muffs for protection. It's standard to who? IIRC just about every optic manufacturer has mounts for both and it's the choice of who ever is using it what they want. Really we can argue this all day long. It's really going to come down to personal preference. My original post was not to say that lower 1/3rd is WRONG, but tons of people post as if without lower 1/3rd cowitness they aren't tacticool enough. |
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Edit: EXPX3 for $475 after mail in rebate |
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I see it as the opposite I guess - I try to make it as simple as possible. Head goes to the exact same place every time. NTCH no matter it's magnified optic, red dot, or irons. While I'm okay with the dot being in the lower portion of the optic without the sights, an overwhelming majority of the people I try and teach want to put the dot on top of the front sight post. This ranges from completely new shooters to those who have been fudds their whole life. With the absolute cowitness, they can do that without thinking or having the iron sight up. With the lower 1/3rd they kinda move around a bit before they realize it's okay that the dot isn't perfectly centered or on top of the post - which ever head position they pick. FWIW: I have all lower 1/3rd cowitness mounts. One rifle has flip ups one is fixed. How is peripheral vision changed at all? Lower you put your face the more of your vision is blocked by the rifle and optic Faster to pick up reticle is also subjective. It's closer, as you lift the rifle it will come into view before a lower mounted sight Eye box is unchanged - it's a red dot, not a magnified scope. Red dots have an eye box(not talking about FOV), the lower you mount it the more of your eye box will be unusable due to the stock being in the way, lower third lets you use all of it, hence it has a bigger, more usable eye box. Couldn't comment on the communication stuff since I have not had that issue/used communication systems other than standard ear muffs for protection. It's standard to who? US MilitaryIIRC just about every optic manufacturer has mounts for both and it's the choice of who ever is using it what they want. Really we can argue this all day long. It's really going to come down to personal preference. My original post was not to say that lower 1/3rd is WRONG, but tons of people post as if without lower 1/3rd cowitness they aren't tacticool enough. Quoted:
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Never had an issue teaching a new shooter to shoot a rifle with irons and a lower 1/3rd optic. You can still keep your head in the same place if you don't care about having the aiming point in the lower part of the optic..... I see what you're saying but I think you're overthinking it. I don't shoot an optic NTCH, whereas I do shoot irons that way. Ends up different no matter what I do! I see it as the opposite I guess - I try to make it as simple as possible. Head goes to the exact same place every time. NTCH no matter it's magnified optic, red dot, or irons. While I'm okay with the dot being in the lower portion of the optic without the sights, an overwhelming majority of the people I try and teach want to put the dot on top of the front sight post. This ranges from completely new shooters to those who have been fudds their whole life. With the absolute cowitness, they can do that without thinking or having the iron sight up. With the lower 1/3rd they kinda move around a bit before they realize it's okay that the dot isn't perfectly centered or on top of the post - which ever head position they pick. FWIW: I have all lower 1/3rd cowitness mounts. One rifle has flip ups one is fixed. Quoted:
Yes there are reasons. It works better(for most). It provides Better peripheral vision, faster to pick up reticle, Larger and more forgiving eye box, comm. ear pro gets in the way of a lower cheek weld, It;s why it;s the "standard" height for 1x optics and magnified optics as well. How is peripheral vision changed at all? Lower you put your face the more of your vision is blocked by the rifle and optic Faster to pick up reticle is also subjective. It's closer, as you lift the rifle it will come into view before a lower mounted sight Eye box is unchanged - it's a red dot, not a magnified scope. Red dots have an eye box(not talking about FOV), the lower you mount it the more of your eye box will be unusable due to the stock being in the way, lower third lets you use all of it, hence it has a bigger, more usable eye box. Couldn't comment on the communication stuff since I have not had that issue/used communication systems other than standard ear muffs for protection. It's standard to who? US MilitaryIIRC just about every optic manufacturer has mounts for both and it's the choice of who ever is using it what they want. Really we can argue this all day long. It's really going to come down to personal preference. My original post was not to say that lower 1/3rd is WRONG, but tons of people post as if without lower 1/3rd cowitness they aren't tacticool enough. It's very minor difference. I ran absolute height for a while and have come to appreciate some of the small advantages of lower 1/3. There is no right or wrong way. |
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It's very minor difference. I ran absolute height for a while and have come to appreciate some of the small advantages of lower 1/3. There is no right or wrong way. Quoted:
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Never had an issue teaching a new shooter to shoot a rifle with irons and a lower 1/3rd optic. You can still keep your head in the same place if you don't care about having the aiming point in the lower part of the optic..... I see what you're saying but I think you're overthinking it. I don't shoot an optic NTCH, whereas I do shoot irons that way. Ends up different no matter what I do! I see it as the opposite I guess - I try to make it as simple as possible. Head goes to the exact same place every time. NTCH no matter it's magnified optic, red dot, or irons. While I'm okay with the dot being in the lower portion of the optic without the sights, an overwhelming majority of the people I try and teach want to put the dot on top of the front sight post. This ranges from completely new shooters to those who have been fudds their whole life. With the absolute cowitness, they can do that without thinking or having the iron sight up. With the lower 1/3rd they kinda move around a bit before they realize it's okay that the dot isn't perfectly centered or on top of the post - which ever head position they pick. FWIW: I have all lower 1/3rd cowitness mounts. One rifle has flip ups one is fixed. Quoted:
Yes there are reasons. It works better(for most). It provides Better peripheral vision, faster to pick up reticle, Larger and more forgiving eye box, comm. ear pro gets in the way of a lower cheek weld, It;s why it;s the "standard" height for 1x optics and magnified optics as well. How is peripheral vision changed at all? Lower you put your face the more of your vision is blocked by the rifle and optic Faster to pick up reticle is also subjective. It's closer, as you lift the rifle it will come into view before a lower mounted sight Eye box is unchanged - it's a red dot, not a magnified scope. Red dots have an eye box(not talking about FOV), the lower you mount it the more of your eye box will be unusable due to the stock being in the way, lower third lets you use all of it, hence it has a bigger, more usable eye box. Couldn't comment on the communication stuff since I have not had that issue/used communication systems other than standard ear muffs for protection. It's standard to who? US MilitaryIIRC just about every optic manufacturer has mounts for both and it's the choice of who ever is using it what they want. Really we can argue this all day long. It's really going to come down to personal preference. My original post was not to say that lower 1/3rd is WRONG, but tons of people post as if without lower 1/3rd cowitness they aren't tacticool enough. It's very minor difference. I ran absolute height for a while and have come to appreciate some of the small advantages of lower 1/3. There is no right or wrong way. It is just preference. I like lower 1/3 on the eotech, it's just better to me. You don't need a hard cheek weld because the bullet goes where the dot is. Iron sights and scopes are different. You want a firm weld because you are lining up the rear ring and front post, you need your eyes to be in a supported firm position. Magnification is the same, gotta keep that little eye relief in view. Red dots don't have a specific eye relief and there is nothing to line up. |
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i have a fixeed front sight but i want to keep it. i just hae how cluttered it looked when i had a sightmark that was absolute. and thanks for the help to everyone that replied for the 512, the two best options for 1/3 co witness are the Larue LT-110 and RRA Dominator II which can both be had on EE for under $100. the Larue mount has a quick detach and the RRA has a built in A2 sight. I personally like both setups and keep the iron sites zeroed at 200yds and the eotech at 50yds. Both give a much better sight picture from the Eotech. Larue with DD irons (on top) 
RRA Dominator 
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