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Posted: 9/9/2013 6:51:21 PM EDT
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I have a Colt 6920 I bought back in April. I would like to put an optic on it. I've been leaning toward a 1-4 scope such as the Burris or the new Bushnell maybe the new Primary Arms 1-6x or if I can save a little longer a Leupold or Vortex. Although, I'd really like to stay less than $300. I figured that having a variable scope would extend my range some.
Here recently I've thought about just going with a red dot or micro dot. Generally they cost less have unlimited eye relief. I don't have anyone around that I can borrow and see what I like. What are your experiences? |
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I have both. I will say that you must decide what you want to do with the rifle. If it is just a range toy then maybe it doesn't matter. If you want to be more precise at any range the magnified optic is a must but if you just want to put rounds on target quickly the a red dot or holographic is the way to go. I prefer my Vortex 1-4 on my rifle over a red dot on an identical rifle. But prefer the eotech over a red dot also. I have become almost a quick with my 1-4 as I am with my Eotech for CQB type drills. But I dont think I will ever be able to match the speed, but for distance shots I am faster and more precise with the 1-4 Viper pst so it is a was for me. I think the 1-4 is a good choice for a do both type rifle. The new Bushnell throw down looks promising for a lot less money too but remember for the 1-4 you have to figure in the cost of a mount also were some red dots have mounts built in. Hope this helps
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Hitting a 4" plate at 25 meters - Starting from rifle slung in front of me with right hand on pistol grip, barrel pointed down to the side.
1-4x Millet DMS is approximately .3-.5 of a second slower to first shot on target than 30mm lens red dot. Red dot the size of the small Aimpoint, 2x42 Truglo, 1x42 truglo are all within .1 seconds of the 30mm tube or basically no difference at all for me. I find no significant difference between DMS scope on 1x and my 1.5-6x42 Bushnell illuminated scope on 1.5x but the fine red dot without doughnut around it is a much more precise aiming reticule and far and away better in low light because of the single dot illumination and the larger objective lens. Obviously at 6x it is much better for long distance than a 1x red dot but a red dot is much better for self defense use. |
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Lots of good options, eh?
Red dots and 1-x optics are all pretty dang fast on 1x. The scopes are a bit harder to use from unconventional positions. Magnification can sure make shooting groups on paper more enjoyable at any distance, while red dots are prefectly suitable up until you start having trouble actually seeing smaller targets or if you need target or tactical turrets for drop/wind. Generally speaking, the heavier and more optically demanding 1-6x scopes in your price range will not be as optically nice as the 1-4x options. The extra power isn't free. I do love my 30mm illuminated FFP 1-6x, but she's a bit of a pig. A non-illuminated SFP 1-4x is a very practical optic for an AR. |
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What are the benefits of illumination? shoot at night/dusk/dawn, you'll quickly learn. if you don't plan on doing anything more than 'plinking' under 200 yards or so, a red dot is fine. you can even get a cheap ass magnifier+mount combo for under 100$. 1-4 variables offer the most flexibility, but doesn't come without a price...they add a lot of weight. for instance my burris mtac is roughly 17oz. my ADM mount is roughly 8 oz. total: ~25oz. an aimpoint pro with mount is about 11 oz. the 1-4 is almost a full pound heavier than an average red dot. if going with a micro, it is over a full pound heavier. |
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My experiance is both are best. A red dot sight is nice because it is very light weight and wont effect the ballance or a rifle much. You can keep the front lense cap/cover on and it is very good for shooting in the point blank range of a cartridge or alittle further.
A magnified scope is better for shooting beyond the point blank range of a cartridge so I dont really see the sense in low magnfication scope, a purpose built fixed 6x or 3-9x is great if you plan to shoot to 600 or 700 yards, or try to spot targets at those distances. My rule is the magnification is the limits if its effectiveness for use on smaller targets. so a 6x is good for 600 yards a 10x is good to a thousand. There are plenty of folks who have used ACOGs to hit stuff at 800 yards or further, but it my rule on magnified optics none the less. |
| I think this choice boils down to the type of shooting you do or prefer to do and where you do it. Maybe you aren't sure yet, only time and trial and error will tell. Personally, I think it is worth it to buy used stuff in the EE to try out and see what you prefer. It may cost you or you may end up making money on some of the transactions, all depends on how patient you are and what you buy. If you find good deals you can typically buy something and resell it and be pretty close to break even. T1s have excellent resale value at the moment, so do ACOGs. look through the EE to get a feel for what optics are selling for in the aftermarket compared to their original price, If you buy junk that nobody else wants and you'll be stuck with it or get hosed if you ever want to sell it. learn how to buy and sell in the EE to try stuff out. |
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I think this choice boils down to the type of shooting you do or prefer to do and where you do it. . ^This. It all depends on what you want to do. I love EoTechs, and learned on them, but when I built my first AR I built it for 3-Gun, so I put a Burris TAC30 on it. EoTechs and red dots are more designed for gunfights that are up close- 1-4 type scopes are more designed to bridge a gap, and to be used in competition. I was competing, so I bought was was best for that purpose. That's not to say you can't use either for either purpose, they just work better for specialized stuff. I really love my Burris. Super clear glass, easy to acquire the target, good holdover points for shooting out to 500 yards, and 4x is adequate at that range for nearly all targets.. we routinely tag 12" steel that far in competition. The reticle is almost as good as a red dot up close (big thing is eye relief matters and your field of view is restricted) in my opinion it comes as close to being a "jack of all trades" optic as you reasonably can get.. you sacrifice a little bit of time in CQB scenarios for the ability to hit at range. |
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I think this choice boils down to the type of shooting you do or prefer to do and where you do it. Maybe you aren't sure yet, only time and trial and error will tell. Personally, I think it is worth it to buy used stuff in the EE to try out and see what you prefer. It may cost you or you may end up making money on some of the transactions, all depends on how patient you are and what you buy. If you find good deals you can typically buy something and resell it and be pretty close to break even. T1s have excellent resale value at the moment, so do ACOGs. look through the EE to get a feel for what optics are selling for in the aftermarket compared to their original price, If you buy junk that nobody else wants and you'll be stuck with it or get hosed if you ever want to sell it. learn how to buy and sell in the EE to try stuff out. Yeah, I mostly shoot at a range and targets, but I want to be open to some varmint shooting etc. Ideally, I'd have at least one more upper/rifle in the style of the Stag 3G upper and get a variable for that and a red dot on the 16 inch carbine. Who am I kidding the real ideal is that plus a heavy barreled long distance upper/rifle with a high powered scope and a SBR in 9mm with a micro dot. I've been checking the EE for months. Can't ever find what I want until after it's sold. |
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This is what you are looking for. SPR-G
Do not buy it from optics planet.com. This is the cheapest price on the net. Excellent budget scope. Very happy with purchase. |
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This is what you are looking for. SPR-G Do not buy it from optics planet.com. This is the cheapest price on the net. http://<a href=http://i1364.photobucket.com/albums/r740/skylerrsirling/photo-3_zps11d7e514.jpg</a>" /> Excellent budget scope. Very happy with purchase. How is the visibility in daylight? |
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Comparing the Bushnell TRS-25 + VMX3T magnifier and Trijicon TR24R. You can go cheaper with the Burris TAC30/MTAC ($300-$400) but the reticle isnt daylight bright, still visible though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YnaP8c-bSQ |
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This is what you are looking for. SPR-G Do not buy it from optics planet.com. This is the cheapest price on the net. http://<a href=http://i1364.photobucket.com/albums/r740/skylerrsirling/photo-3_zps11d7e514.jpg</a>" /> Excellent budget scope. Very happy with purchase. I don' t know that I could get used to shooting the 1.5 with one eye open. |
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I've been considering this same question and here is what settled it for me.
If this is a non-game gun...as in it may need to save your life some day, I want consistency. The red dot gives you consistency. The last thing you want is to try and engage a target with a "surprise" sight picture when your scope is on the wrong setting. Also, don't want to be adjusting anything while engaging a shoot back target. I'm in the red dot camp. This is after coming from a 3x fixed power. After much thought and experimentation, I have come to the realization that speed is more important than range for an AR15 in civilian hands in most all circumstances. I shot out to 500m with small arms in the Army, but I'm not in the Army anymore so I need to consider my realistic engagement distances and scenarios. Now...to save up for that Aimpoint! |
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I've been considering this same question and here is what settled it for me. If this is a non-game gun...as in it may need to save your life some day, I want consistency. The red dot gives you consistency. The last thing you want is to try and engage a target with a "surprise" sight picture when your scope is on the wrong setting. Also, don't want to be adjusting anything while engaging a shoot back target. I'm in the red dot camp. This is after coming from a 3x fixed power. After much thought and experimentation, I have come to the realization that speed is more important than range for an AR15 in civilian hands in most all circumstances. I shot out to 500m with small arms in the Army, but I'm not in the Army anymore so I need to consider my realistic engagement distances and scenarios. Now...to save up for that Aimpoint! I own both a Leupold VX-R 1.25X4 illuminated Patrol reticle scope and an Aimpoint T1, 2moa. Having said that, I agree that the Aimpoint is the way to go as this poster said. Go with the Aimpoint! |
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I've been considering this same question and here is what settled it for me. If this is a non-game gun...as in it may need to save your life some day, I want consistency. The red dot gives you consistency. The last thing you want is to try and engage a target with a "surprise" sight picture when your scope is on the wrong setting. Also, don't want to be adjusting anything while engaging a shoot back target. I'm in the red dot camp. This is after coming from a 3x fixed power. After much thought and experimentation, I have come to the realization that speed is more important than range for an AR15 in civilian hands in most all circumstances. I shot out to 500m with small arms in the Army, but I'm not in the Army anymore so I need to consider my realistic engagement distances and scenarios. Now...to save up for that Aimpoint! The chance that my AR will ever be used in a defensive purpose is slim. |
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With the 1x4, you can just close the front cover and use it as an occluded scope, both eyes open.
That being said, I'm in the same conundrum as you OP. Been mulling the same question for a WHILE. Research says that if you can learn your holds, a red dot will work just fine at distance. Still haven't made a choice though, as I live in a rural area where magnification would be more beneficial. Lots of open terrain, but also lots of woods as well. Can't afford both so it's a toughy to think through. And then there's the weight issue to deal with. As we all know, ounces equal pounds and so on. Leaning today towards red dot. Tomorrow will probably be different 
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| Just an FYI, I just purchased a Vortex Viper 1-4 from cameralandny's amazon store for $399 total. They are marked as used, but I was sent a brand new scope! They said they will honor that price as long as it is up on Amazon! Give them a call if you have any questions, they are more than willing to answer questions. I know it is a little beyond the $300 mark, but it's a GREAT deal on this scope! |
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I prefer a 1-4 as long as it's not super heavy.
Watch the weight. The cheap mounts are usually overly heavy and in combination with a heavy optic can ruin the experience. Get a good reticle. Thin crosshairs suck ass if you want to use a 1-4 properly. A good reticle like a horseshoe you can use both eyes open on all magnification/illumination settings. Thin reticles are harder to pick up due to less occular occlusion, and need illumination to use heads up. True magnification. I outright can not use a 1.25 optic both eyes open. I get a drunk distorted view using it both eyes open from 1.2-2.5X magnification. Even some 1.1's will give me issues if the glass is low quality ane has edge distortion. Some don't have this problem though. Exit pupil. The larger the exit pupil is on 1X, the more useable it will be. If you look at specs, the Vortex has the the best exit pupil of any 1-4, and from the pictures I've seen it looks to be the closest to 1X available, and I'm honestly debating on that or the PA 1-6 for future use. ETA: I would avoid the new Bushnell. There are reports of the ranging being way off as well as the reticle being hard to pick up on 1X since it's first focal plane. I personally think first focal plane on a 1-4 is kind of pointless, based on my experience of thicker reticles being faster up close. Especially on a horseshoe which is designed for framing targets to enhance speed at close ranges. |
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So many people are confusing magnification with range of shooting.
The gun is going to shoot just as far as it would with an RDS or magnification. It is a matter of how precise you want to be/can be and how accurate the gun can be - this includes chamber, twist rate, bullet, bullet weight, etc. If you plan on shooting cheap ammo, magnification may not be much of a factor as the bullets won't group well enough to be more precise. |
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Hitting a 4" plate at 25 meters - Starting from rifle slung in front of me with right hand on pistol grip, barrel pointed down to the side. 1-4x Millet DMS is approximately .3-.5 of a second slower to first shot on target than 30mm lens red dot. Red dot the size of the small Aimpoint, 2x42 Truglo, 1x42 truglo are all within .1 seconds of the 30mm tube or basically no difference at all for me. I find no significant difference between DMS scope on 1x and my 1.5-6x42 Bushnell illuminated scope on 1.5x but the fine red dot without doughnut around it is a much more precise aiming reticule and far and away better in low light because of the single dot illumination and the larger objective lens. Obviously at 6x it is much better for long distance than a 1x red dot but a red dot is much better for self defense use. If you get a good scope like the Vortex 1-6 Razor 2 or the Swarovski you can shoot just as fast on 1x as you can with a red dot. Vortex 1-6 on a hoser stage |
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OK. Probably won't need a gun at all. Cool. Quoted:
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The chance that my AR will ever be used in a defensive purpose is slim. OK. Probably won't need a gun at all. Cool. Na I've got a shotgun and 3 pistols within reach of my bed. I don't plan on using the AR at home because the flash and report would blind and disorient me after one shot. |
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Na I've got a shotgun and 3 pistols within reach of my bed. I don't plan on using the AR at home because the flash and report would blind and disorient me after one shot. Quoted:
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The chance that my AR will ever be used in a defensive purpose is slim. OK. Probably won't need a gun at all. Cool. Na I've got a shotgun and 3 pistols within reach of my bed. I don't plan on using the AR at home because the flash and report would blind and disorient me after one shot. If you have a flash hider and or good ammo the flash is non existent. As for report ya its loud but you won't notice it. I keep a set of peltors on the stock of my rifle. Firing any gun indoors is going to be loud. Pat |
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Na I've got a shotgun and 3 pistols within reach of my bed. I don't plan on using the AR at home because the flash and report would blind and disorient me after one shot. Quoted:
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The chance that my AR will ever be used in a defensive purpose is slim. OK. Probably won't need a gun at all. Cool. Na I've got a shotgun and 3 pistols within reach of my bed. I don't plan on using the AR at home because the flash and report would blind and disorient me after one shot. The gun shop misinformation is strong with this one. ~Augee |
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For close range home defense, a EoTech. For longer shooting, the scope. If you have two rifles, easy choice, if you have just the one get good quality quick disconnect mounts and you can do both.
I have a problem... I'm right handed, and left eye dominant. For years I had to acquire the target with both eyes, then close my left to engage. Really slowed me down. However, I have an EoTech ( with a GG&G quick mount) that still works great after getting banged around two deployments to Iraq. Very fast on target. I love it. I credit it with saving my life. I swear, there was one incident where that EoTech was the only thing that allowed me to be faster that hadji. That illuminated reticle really catches my eye. I can keep both eyes open, and my brain will superimpose the image. By the way, I recommend an EoTech. "Firing any gun indoors is going to be loud." True on the noise. Just use the best tool you have at hand. |
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For close range home defense, a EoTech. For longer shooting, the scope. If you have two rifles, easy choice, if you have just the one get good quality quick disconnect mounts and you can do both. I have a problem... I'm right handed, and left eye dominant. For years I had to acquire the target with both eyes, then close my left to engage. Really slowed me down. However, I have an EoTech ( with a GG&G quick mount) that still works great after getting banged around two deployments to Iraq. Very fast on target. I love it. I credit it with saving my life. I swear, there was one incident where that EoTech was the only thing that allowed me to be faster that hadji. That illuminated reticle really catches my eye. I can keep both eyes open, and my brain will superimpose the image. By the way, I recommend an EoTech. "Firing any gun indoors is going to be loud." True on the noise. Just use the best tool you have at hand. You don't need 2 rifles and a good low power variable (1-4,5,6 etc) will do 99% of what an Eotech can do up close and still go long. Not an Eotech fan. Have had them lose zero, turn off randomly, have terrible battery life, Back up irons were invented because of EOtechs. Lol. Pat |
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