AR Sponsor
Posted: 11/13/2011 10:29:31 PM EDT
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So, im doing a new AR build using a Spikes 14.5" upper and lower with Magpul furniture. I'm wanting a medium weight rifle and have a question for those who have more background in using optics on the AR platform.
I've been considering using a COMPM4 with flip up irons. (About $800) I've also been considering using a TA31RCO with a Surefire RTS set. (About $1,500) I like the magnification of the TA31 and the fact it does not require batteries, but I also like the simple M4 red dot and it is considerably cheaper (and lighter). Before it's mentioned If I get the M4 I won't be using a magnifier as that will add more weight and bulk than im willing to put on the rifle (Had an EOtech and magnifier on a different rifle and didnt like how much bulk it added). What say you, and why? |
| If you want something simple like the m4 but don't want batteries why don't you look at one of the smaller acogs like the ta44s10. I like the ta11, but it is big. I just bought a ta33, but haven't had a chance to try it out yet. |
Im an odd ball. I use a TA01 on my SBR. Ive tried to love red dots and I cant get into them. Ive used red dots on this gun as well as a 10.5 and a 7.5 and it seems anything short of rock throwing distance I prefer the ACOG. I can engage just as fast with the ACOG at about any distance and Im able to ID the targets much better with the ACOG not to mention its practically indestructible. I built this rifle as my go to gun and wanted batteries to play no part in optics
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Quoted:
The Aimpoint and ACOG are intended for different roles. What is your rifle intended for? This, and the prices you list are pretty dang high. Watch the EE for deals - TA01/TA31s can be had for between 600-800 and I've seen comp M4 s for sub $500 in good condition. Irons too go for cheap. I bought my first ACOG (TA31RCOM4) new at "new" prices and I regret paying that much. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
The Aimpoint and ACOG are intended for different roles. What is your rifle intended for? This, and the prices you list are pretty dang high. Watch the EE for deals - TA01/TA31s can be had for between 600-800 and I've seen comp M4 s for sub $500 in good condition. Irons too go for cheap. I bought my first ACOG (TA31RCOM4) new at "new" prices and I regret paying that much. I found a deal 
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Thank you for the replies.
I should have clarified in my original post. Im putting this rifle together to be a fun middle of the road rifle. I already have an extended range and a short range rifle. If I equipped the ACOG I would likely be using the irons at 100yds or less. As for the M4, I wouldn't need irons except as a backup, but my longer range would be diminished. I posted a quick MSRP of each as a comparison of equivalent prices mostly, but I am aware that they can be had cheaper. Price isn't the determining factor in this rifle, but it doesn't hurt to keep it reasonable (more ammo for shooting and all). Mostly im interested in everyone's perspectives on the qualities and the weaknesses of each optic. Is the ACOG difficult to use at closer ranges? Is the M4 at that much of a disadvantage compared to an ACOG at longer ranges? Im interested in those sort of things from people who have used them more than I have (I have about one shooting trip with an older model Aimpoint, have had EOtechs for a couple years and have learned I don't like the flip out magnifiers, and have a Leupold Mk4 scope on my ER rifle.) Thank you. |
| Ive got aimpoints, eotechs, variable 1-4, and acogs, and i find myself more and more only using the acog. Yes, you can ID and engage threats out to some distance with a red dot, but after my last deployment to asskrackistan i discovered that the ability to not only hit something, but to also actually have a good view and ID, is invaluable. Like the poster above stated though, they are for different goals. If i knew i was going to be operating in close spaces, say i was mobing for VBSS or somewhere in a tight environment, i would opt for a non magnified red dot, as i would be assuming my average engagements would be well within 100 meters. But for me at least, the ACOG in anything other than extreme close ranges, excells. Plus, Larue mounts make swapping optics too easy! Buy both! |
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Quoted: Is the ACOG difficult to use at closer ranges? The ACOG is noticeably slower inside of 25 yards. Is the M4 at that much of a disadvantage compared to an ACOG at longer ranges? Depends on the range and size of the target. Full size silhouettes out to 300 yards are no problem with the Aimpoint. 500 yard silhouettes are possible if you know your holdovers. The ACOG's magnification and BDC are definitely helpful for longer ranges and/or smaller targets. I prefer the Aimpoint if I'm shooting mostly up close with occasional shots out to 300 yards. I prefer the ACOG if I'm shooting mostly 50+ yards. |
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I honestly think that the Aimpoint will be more versatile. If the weapon is going to double as a home defense rifle, the Acog kinda sucks...definitely doesn't allow for snap shots like your Aimpoint or EOTech. The beauty of ACOGs is really in their usefulness as an overwatch tool for the military guys in places like Afghanistan where you might be taking fire from way up on a mountain over a road...or you might have to engage from an FOB down into a village that is 700 yards away (but then an M4 isnt really the best tool). You are military so you know more about that stuff than i do obviously.
Your Aimpoint will provide very decent accuracy up to about 300m which is about the limit of the 5.56 cartridge anyways. I was shooting irons at 250m yesterday and it wasn't a big deal...put 36 out of 40 on a man size target and 40 of 40 on paper. The irons may allow you to be a little more precise than the aimpoint due to the dot covering some of the target but I don't really think it will affect it. If you get an EOTech that works well and don't mind having to change the batteries every 8 months to a year you will get a little more accuracy and range finding capabilities from the EOTech. Aimpoints are rock solid so if I had to bet my life on one I would go with the CompM4. ALSO...2 AA batteries will outlast the tritium of an ACOG by about 8 years. I AA battery will fall short by about 2 years. This weekend was the first time I was able to shoot at a distance further than 150m and my EOTech is getting repaired right now  but I am getting it back today and will take it out and document the difference between irons and the red dot at that 250m mark.
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| Depends on what you want the rifle to do. If you want to quickly engage targets, go with the M4. If you want a bit more precision or range, go with the ACOG. I have a TA01 with an offset mini red dot on one carbine and an older model Aimpoint on another. They are both good sights but with entirely different purposes. Another option is to get the Aimpoint now, because it's less expensive, put it in a LaRue mount, and get an ACOG in a LaRue mount down the road. Two optics, two missions, one rifle. |
| I own a Comp M3 and an TA-33R. I prefer the glass of the ACOG over the Aimpoint but the 3x magnification makes the ACOG more suitable for targets more than 30 yards away. To me the chevron reticle is the best of both worlds, allowing a bigger "dot" if you will for close range shots and the use of the chevron point for precision shots. I am anxious to try a 1.5 or 2 power ACOG and I am so much more impressed with the ACOG over the Aimpoint that my COMP m3 is for sale on Gunbroker right now so I can fund another ACOG purchase. |
| Split the difference and go with a 1-4x optic. In fact, you post is the very reason why 1-4x optics are so popular. 1x for up close and 4x for distance or target ID. You get the best of both with only a minor penalty, namely a very slight lost of speed at 1x compared to an Aimpoint. If you have an astigmatism, like I do, the 1-4x actually works better than a red dot. Lastly, you can get a nice 1-4x for about the same price as an Aimpoint. |
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