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Posted: 3/21/2011 9:42:04 AM EDT
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Recently I had to sell my EO Tech to pay for some bills and now I am looking to put another optic on my carbine. This weapon may one day be used as a patrol rifle in a mountainous area in Colorado so getting banged/bumped around in a patrol car/suv is a likely scenario. I need to maintain close quarters capability but also want magnification for longer shots. I've been looking at something like the Trijicon TR24, Horus Talon, or the Burris XTR. I'm a little hesitant about going to a scope over the durability question. I have a passionate hatred of batteries and would prefer NOT to be reliant of them, but the question still remains.... Are these scopes tough enough to do the job without failing when needed most?
In short, how durable are these things from being bumped/banged around in a patrol car/suv, being dropped (I make it a habit not to drop weapons, but still...), and adverse weather conditions? So what say the "hive mind" about said family of optics? Ooh yeah, one last thing. I've looked at something like an EO Tech or Aimpoint with the 3x magnifiers, but that is a little out of my price range at the moment. |
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Quoted: Recently I had to sell my EO Tech to pay for some bills and now I am looking to put another optic on my carbine. This weapon may one day be used as a patrol rifle in a mountainous area in Colorado so getting banged/bumped around in a patrol car/suv is a likely scenario. I need to maintain close quarters capability but also want magnification for longer shots. I've been looking at something like the Trijicon TR24, Horus Talon, or the Burris XTR. I'm a little hesitant about going to a scope over the durability question. I have a passionate hatred of batteries and would prefer NOT to be reliant of them, but the question still remains.... Are these scopes tough enough to do the job without failing when needed most? In short, how durable are these things from being bumped/banged around in a patrol car/suv, being dropped (I make it a habit not to drop weapons, but still...), and adverse weather conditions? So what say the "hive mind" about said family of optics? Ooh yeah, one last thing. I've looked at something like an EO Tech or Aimpoint with the 3x magnifiers, but that is a little out of my price range at the moment. Haven't heard of any durability issues with the TR24 Accupoints from our customers. They're a really great value for the price IMO. Also, you may consider a Vortex Strikerfire with VMX3 Magnifier, it's a much cheaper option and we have those in-stock as well. Mason @ CST |
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Over on TOS there have been some recent threads where people have reported issues with their TR24s. Personally I have one that filled with water, and I've witnessed another one do the same thing. There were also reports of canted reticles and a really loose focus ring. I upgraded to a Nightforce 1-4 and have not had any problems since.
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I would go with a TA11 or TA33 ACOG. No moving parts and proven durability in combat. No batteries. Lighter than a 1x-4x scope. You can easily shoot CQB with both eyes open or longer distance if needed.
I have also heard reports of the TR24 (triangle version) changing POI when the magnification is changed. In my opinion (feel free to disagree) the 1x-4x scopes are the worst of both worlds between a RDS and an ACOG. |
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While there have been a few issues with TR24s recently, they were all replaced under warranty and not indicative of the product as a whole. Trijicon has stated that the TR24 has passed the same ruggedness tests that their ACOGs have. IIRC, there have been exactly three reports of faulty TR24s across all the gun boards––2 had water leakage, and 1 had POI shift at different powers. |
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I had an issue with a TR24 as well....wouldn't stay focused under recoil, the focus ring would shift with every shot. Yes, I could have used a bit of tape/butler creek cap to fix it...but why should you have to on a $700 scope? And then I found out Trijicon's customer service sucks big time.
When I did finally (couple of months later after numerous non returned phone calls and ignored emails) get it fixed, I replaced it with a Vortex Viper PST and couldn't be happier - better glass than the Trij (not by much, but better nonetheless), more forgiving on eye relief, excellent reticle and excellent build quality. And to top it off, cheaper too, from a company with the best customer service in the optics industry. |
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While I am hardly an authority, I disagree that that a 1X4 is a poor compromise. With both eyes open a 1X works surprisingly well even without the illumination. Also prefer the 4X with BDC to most magnified alternatives short of a precision setup. I have a Burris XTR and it does almost everything well.
All that being said, if you are going into an extra tough environment beyond what commercial gear was designed for you might consider military grade. In any sort of reasonable price range that's probably fixed power. Of course if you're talking less than 200 yards and man sized targets some feel an Aimpoint Pro ($400) with a 2MOA dot will work for that. Target ID may suffer but in law enforcement, long shots for a patrol rifle would seem a rare exception. |
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Maybe Trijicon had a bad run on the TR24s. Who knows? I personally think Trijicon makes awesome products. I own 4 ACOGs and have had no problems whatsoever.
But, there is no way any 1-4 scope is as durable as an ACOG. They may be tested to the same level. However, that is not the same as being just as durable. If you tested both to failure, my money goes on the 1-4 failing first. |
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The SWFA Super Sniper 1-4X looks to be a good scope. Very bright reticle that when used on 1.X could *almost* substitute for a RDS because of its generous eye box and eye relief. Their reputation is also that its built like a tank, but I haven't used it myself so I can't say. I personally use a Vortex Viper PST 1-4X and love it, but wouldn't recommend it at the moment because of its poor illumination that makes it a less than satisfying "RDS-replacement" at 1X under bright light situations. Between the Trijicon TR24 and the Vortex PST, I'd say the TR24 has a far superior eye relief and eye box and illumination. However, it lacks the reticle and target knobs I want. [It's also about $300 more expensive] EDIT- just reread OP, and looks like the PST & SS1-4X might be out of the question since both need batteries for illumination. |
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Quoted:
Between the Trijicon TR24 and the Vortex PST, I'd say the TR24 has a far superior eye relief and eye box and illumination. However, it lacks the reticle and target knobs I want. [It's also about $300 more expensive] EDIT- just reread OP, and looks like the PST & SS1-4X might be out of the question since both need batteries for illumination. I'll have to very much agree to disagree with you there - My experience is that I find the Vortex has the better eye relief and eyebox - it is a close thing but (IMO) it wins out vs the TR24. In addition, I feel the Vortex's glass is better - with the TR24 there was an ever so tiny bit of fishbowling at the edges and it was not quite so clear. But I'll agree about the illumination - no-one beats Trijicon for daytime illumination, and that is without batteries. And on that point, if the OP is dead set against batteries, the choice is pretty much Trijicon or Trijicon. |
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Quoted:
Maybe Trijicon had a bad run on the TR24s. Who knows? I personally think Trijicon makes awesome products. I own 4 ACOGs and have had no problems whatsoever. But, there is no way any 1-4 scope is as durable as an ACOG. They may be tested to the same level. However, that is not the same as being just as durable. If you tested both to failure, my money goes on the 1-4 failing first. I think they make awesome products....just be prepared to feel let down should you need to send anything back to them. Agree with you regarding the durability vs ACOG aspect. More moving parts to a variable scope....and you just can't compare tried and tested "soldier proof" optics vs others. The TR24 is a good scope, but it ain't no ACOG, robustness and glass quality wise. But ETA: A good 1-4 is plenty robust enough for all but the most arduous of use. |
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Quoted:
I would go with a TA11 or TA33 ACOG. No moving parts and proven durability in combat. No batteries. Lighter than a 1x-4x scope. You can easily shoot CQB with both eyes open or longer distance if needed. I have also heard reports of the TR24 (triangle version) changing POI when the magnification is changed. In my opinion (feel free to disagree) the 1x-4x scopes are the worst of both worlds between a RDS and an ACOG. I do disagree and so do nearly all the best three gun shooters and many top military operators. ACOGS are fine as long as you have a mini RDS to use for close in. I shoot both eyes open but its still slower and harder to do while moving with a fixed 3x,4x optic. I have tested using a Aimpoint with a flip to side magnifier, a TA 33 and TA 31 with an off set aimpoint and the TR 24, Swarovski Z6i and I have found the variable power scopes the best solution by far. Pat |
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Quoted:
There are more ACOGs fielded for combat than 1-4 scopes. The numbers are not even close. Shooting while moving is a waste of ammo unless you are doing suppressive fire. You would be better off point shooting. The situation to a very large degree will dictate the type of shooting needed, so there might be a need for accurate fire while on the move. 
ACOGs are issued optics for some military units so there are obviously lots in the field. Their durability and battery-free operation makes them ideal for certain "hard use" applications. |
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Well, to be frank I'm not completely against having batteries I just don't want to be completely reliant on have batteries for my optic to work. Having an etched reticule for when the batteries fail is what I'm thinking of here. As far as the law enforcement side goes, I would really be hard pressed to find a situation where I would be shooting past 150yds. so magnification is more of personal want than a need. IE: p-dogs, coyote, fox, ect. Shooting on the move on the other hand is something that is very important, but only at CQB ranges.
Perhaps I just need to crawl out from under my rock and accept that having batteries power critical systems on guns is worth it... Maybe I should just save up a little longer and go for something like an eotech or aimpoint with a magnifier. God knows I have enough rail space to fit all that crap on there. 13" of continuous rail should be enough.... 
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| I have yet to use the illumination on my Nightforce 1-4 while shooting. I have no problems shooting quickly and on the move with it. 2 weeks ago I shot the first match of the season at one of my local clubs that does a USPSA style rifle match; lots of shooting on the move and up close. With the FC2 reticle in the NF I didn't feel any slower than when I shoot with my Aimpoints, even though I didn't even turn the illumination on. I know that the NF is a bit more money than a TR24, but after personally witnessing two TR24 failures and hearing about more of them, and then dealing with Trijicon's customer service I think the NF is really worth the extra money. The NF is in a different league from a quality standpoint compared to the TR24. |
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