AR Sponsor
Posted: 6/8/2010 4:28:08 PM EDT
| Hello all I am new to the forum and new to the adventures of the black rifle. I am trying to learn as much as I can. I just purchased my first AR this past weekend and now I am looking for a scope. I have minimum dollars since I just blew $1300 on my new AR. Maybe cheap for most but for my first it was my limit. I am happy with it but, now that I want to put a scope on it I find myself with trying to find a low budget but very reliable scope. What I want to do eventually do is compete in matches but, first things first I want to take the most basic carbine coarse: like operation, handling, cleaning etc. I think for a while I can get away with a budget scope and eventually move into a Aimpoint or Trijicon but for now something to get me through the basics and maybe even the first combative carbine course. I am looking to stay within $200 or less. I did see some Vortexs' for under that but know nothing about them. Hers one for instance. http://swfa.com/Vortex-6-24x50-Crossfire-Rifle-Scope-P43585.aspx Thanks |
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Welcome to the forum.
Since you mentioned taking a carbine course, I'll assume that you bought a carbine. That scope that you mentioned is more appropriate for target or varmint shooting. Not combat type shooting. Rather than just post a question and hope to have someone point you in the right direction, I would suggest that you do some research and then ask questions that would lead you to an informed decision. Optics preferences are really subjective and what works for most may not work for you. For up close situations, most like red dot sights with no magnification. What works best for me is a 1.5X ACOG. Since you are starting with very basics and are already talking about cheap optics, I think that you should get yourself some irons sights and learn with those before you move on to optics. Personally, I kind of think that you went about things a bit backwards. You blew $1300 on a rifle and can't shoot it because you don't have a sight for it, so in essence, the rifle is useless without an optic and now you're looking for something cheap to get your rifle running. I would have bought an $800 rifle to be sure that I had money left over for an optic. I'm not trying to rag on you, just trying to make the point that the optic is a very important part of the rifle. Get yourself some irons and then start doing your research to figure out what would be best for you. If you are going to try to find one optic to do it all, good luck because it doesn't exist. I have two ARs. One with the ACOG for plinking and stuff and one with a 10X Nightforce for more accurate shooting. Since you're just getting started, I'd say get the irons, save up for a red dot and mount, then save up for a magnified optic and mount. With quick detachable mounts, you could just swap the sights to fit the need. Later on, you can just get another rifle or three. |
| I just got my Vortex 4-24x50 today. It's big, sort of heavy and really too much for a 5.56 AR, especially a carbine. I bought it just for the hell of it and think I might replace a Leuplod VX2 on one of my AR10s just to try it out. I will be shooting from a bipod so the weight and size won't effect me. It looks like a great scope of $100 and the glass seems clear but a 24X is way too much for a 5.56 AR like I said. There are a lot of nice 1-4 scopes out there that won't break the bank. Leupold 1.5-4––––-Konus M30 1-4––––Millitt DMS, etc. I mounted a Konus M30 last week on a 20" AR and shot the best groups of my life. Good luck |
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Quoted:
Since you are starting with very basics and are already talking about cheap optics, I think that you should get yourself some irons sights and learn with those before you move on to optics. Personally, I kind of think that you went about things a bit backwards. You blew $1300 on a rifle and can't shoot it because you don't have a sight for it, so in essence, the rifle is useless without an optic and now you're looking for something cheap to get your rifle running. I would have bought an $800 rifle to be sure that I had money left over for an optic. I'm not trying to rag on you, just trying to make the point that the optic is a very important part of the rifle. No, all criticisms taken I am learning and I am reading but, in the world of optics and the AR world in general there is so much stuff out there it's mind boggling. I understand what red dots do and what magnifying scopes do in general but, I am sure there is a lot more than meets the eye. (No pun intended.) I have a Spikes Striker with a few minor mods to it. I live in New Jerkistan so it has all the compliant BS done to it. It does have flip up sights. I wouldn’t get it without at least that. Beyond my hunting rifles I have no experience with rifle optics. It’s not like going to the gun shop and ordering a Remington 700 with a 1X4 or a 2X7 scope for brush hunting in Pennsylvania or a 4X12 for mule deer in Colorado. At least to me it seems that there is a lot more to it. Maybe I am over analyzing things. |
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I picked up a Leatherwood CMR 1-4x a couple weeks ago and it is an awesome scope for the $250 I spent. I can't comment on durability yet, but Leatherwood's biggest problems in the past were with the camputer system. This thing seems rock solid and adjusts clean and accurately, plus the reticle is awesome.
I hate when people tell me this but, if you save up a little more... Get the best mount you can afford. I looked at the Larue, Bobro, and GG&G but I went with the American Defense Recon-X based on looks and availability. None of those choices are a bad way to go. I don't care if its not a QD on a more precision type gun, but for CQB I'd like to be able to drop the scope fast if need be. |
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It is very hard to get advise on optics. It is hard to be objective when talking about them. Some guys think you need to spend as much on the optic as you do the rifle. those guys will not be fair to a lesser optic. There are guys that are cheap ans will pretend their $100 optic is as good as their buddies $500+ optic, they are not lying to you as much as to themselves.
I took a friend hunting who had a cheap scope that had previously justified as a good one. the deer came out at low light and he couldn't see it in his scope. So I slid my rifle to him. He got the deer.... But still hasn't bought a new scope. The Primary arms stuff gets a lot of referrals, i do not know if it is due to all that much experience with them, or just guys repeating what they have heard. But I would say at a minimum do the primary arms. Don't do that one you linked to, nothing good about it in your case.. |
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I believe that Primary Arms gets a lot of referrals because of the good customer service. They do carry decent, "bang of the buck" knock off optics, but the also carry higher end stuff too.
Which rifle/carbine did you buy? I believe that everyone should have two optics. Some form of close quarters optic and a magnified optic for longer distances. When I say a magnified optic, I don't mean a 4X that will allow you to hit larger targets at distance, but something along the lines of a 3-9X40. If you have to compromise, there are a bunch of 1-4X scopes out there that will sort of fill the role of a red dot sight AND a magnified scope. If you have to compromise, go with a low magnification scope. In the $300 neighborhood, I really like the Nikon African 1-4X and the Sightron SII Big Sky 1.25-5X. Both are small and light at around 10" long and weighing in a around half a pound. Both also have good glass. Personally, if I had to choose between good glass or a tacticool lit reticle, I'll go with quality glass everytime. The reason that I mention this is because there are a few low magnification scopes in the $300 price range that have lit reticles and a level of tacticoolness to them. The DMS-1 comes to mind. I gave mine away, literally. I GAVE it away. It was long (about a foot), it was heavy (about a pound) and the glass was very mediocre (either of the two I mentioned had better glass). If you want to stay around the $150 range, the Weaver V3 is a pretty nice scope with good glass. I think it's smaller than the other two I mentioned and I don't think that anyone can say anything bad about that scope. That post a couple above mine is true and is the reason that asking for opinions is a little dangerous. Guys that have the really good stuff may believe that nothing else will do, and guys that don't have the really good stuff will try to convince you that cheaper stuff is just as good. You need to find a middle ground where you wind up with something that will suit your needs and not break the bank for you. Just keep in mind that, with very few exceptions, good optics are never "cheap." The magnified scope that I'm using right now is a Nightforce. It was a $1300 scope and it's nice. Super nice. Lots of guys out at the range shooting Nikons and Leupolds have commented on how clear and bright it is. For me, it was worth the money, but I certainly wouldn't feel like I was at a disadvantage if I was shooting a Nikon Monarch or the like. The first thing you need to figure out is what role you want the optic to fill. After that, take a look at a few and then ask questions. |
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Quoted:
I Which rifle/carbine did you buy? I believe that everyone should have two optics. Some form of close quarters optic and a magnified optic for longer distances. Spikes Tactical it's basically setup like the Striker limited edition. A few changes I have the DD 10.0 rails and the magpul MBUS flip up sights. I agree with the two different sights. Like I said I am not sure what I want to do with it yet. If am good enough with it I want to get into competion but very minimum home protection and range. If I do the latter I probally only need a red do and the flip up sightst. If I do the competition then I need both. I think for now I will just use the flip ups and a good red dot. http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy23/njsportsman/100_0756.jpg |
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Quoted:
I'd shoot irons for your first carbine class. I did and I don't regret it at all. 
THIS. You must start with the basics. Irons is the best thing for you to learn. Master you iron sights, then get a scope. ETA: Nice looking rifle. Good on ya for your first one.... ETA again : I like my Trijicon TR24G. It is about a $775 optic, but it has true 1x and great glass...but Master those iron sights first. |
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That is a really nice rifle, especially for your first. Congrats.
If it's your wish to shoot the rifle in some sort of competition, then go for it. Don't worry about whether you're good enough. Just do it. Everyone starts someplace. The only problem with competing is the cost of practice and the initial cost of the equipment. I'll stick with what I said before, in that a variable will be the best middle of the road, but will append that by saying that if you want to compete, it is likely that you'll have to go from pretty close shots to some not so close shots. A variable low power scope will be good for this. I'd have to say that the fastest, reasonably priced scope is going to be the TR24. The triangle reticle is just about impossible to miss and it has reasonably good glass. At over $700, it might be out of reach for you. In that case, I'd abandon the lit reticle for something with good glass. I think I already mentioned the Weaver V3 at around $150. Then there's the Nikon African at just over $200 and the Sightron 1.25-5X at around $300. I'm sure that there are many more to choose from, but those are some that I've used and liked. I'd also like to address the issue of cheap optics a bit. There is some decent stuff out there in the world of knock offs. The stuff that Primary Arms sells gets good reviews and the stuff from Vortex gets good reviews and either may be fine for informal shooting or trips to the range and perhaps more. Still, it would really suck to spend all of that money on the rifle, practice ammo, ammo for the match and gear, not to mention the cost lodging, if you have to travel a bit, just to get to the match and have your sight crap out on you in the middle of a stage. Competition can get fast and furious and really put a strain on your equipment. Although anything can break, you're going to want to reduce the chance of that happening by as much as you can. The way to do that is to get good equipment. I'd suggest that you go and check out a local match or two. Take a look at what's working for those guys. You'll get an opportunity not only to see the equipment, but also see it being used. Remember that equipment won't make you fast. It can help you to be faster, once your skills are honed, but it won't make up for the lack of skill. After having seen your pic, it seems to me that you have a rifle that is ready to run. For now, I'd go out and get some ammo and shoot the crap out of it. I burn up a lot of Silver Bear 62gr hollow point, from cheaperthandirt. At under $5 a box, around $130 per 500 shipped, it makes for good practice ammo. Get good with what you've got and worry about the bells and whistles later. Just start socking money away for later, when you're ready to get a optic. |
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