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Posted: 3/21/2010 10:06:33 PM EDT
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I'm new to the whole "hanging stuff on your rifle" gig. Just got my first red dot (Vortex Strikefire, which I do dearly love) last year, and more of those have found their ways onto my rifles. I can get them sighted in and shoot well with them, but I've yet to even buy a real rifle scope.
I'm slowly assembling the pieces for a long range rifle build, and now I need to decide on a scope for it. Oh man am I in over my head. Tube sizes, types of magnification, types of mounts...I AM a complete n00b when it comes to anything with magnification. Quick detach capability is important to me, so I'm going with a LaRue QD mount. Basically my goal for this rifle is to create something extremely accurate at long range, and suitable at close range if you take of the scope and flip up the irons. For a scope, the guy I talked to at Gander Mtn recommended a something with a little less magnification, said it would be better at ranges inside and up to 100 yards (which is going to be where I zero the rifle). I'd like very much to stick with Vortex brand scopes, they've always impressed me with their quality and customer service, and I feel some sense of loyalty to their brand. My uninformed picks so far are from their coming PST line, due out this spring: Viper PST 6-24x50 Viper PST 4-16x50 I'm guessing the second one has lesser magnification, but that's only based on price point. Like I said, I'm out of my league here. Anyone got any recommendations from the two (or something else). Perhaps a little education for an eager pupil on what the numbers after the name mean? Suggestions on what I should be looking for in a long range AR scope? Thanks much. |
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Quoted: I'm new to the whole "hanging stuff on your rifle" gig. Just got my first red dot (Vortex Strikefire, which I do dearly love) last year, and more of those have found their ways onto my rifles. I can get them sighted in and shoot well with them, but I've yet to even buy a real rifle scope. I'm slowly assembling the pieces for a long range rifle build, and now I need to decide on a scope for it. Oh man am I in over my head. Tube sizes, types of magnification, types of mounts...I AM a complete n00b when it comes to anything with magnification. Quick detach capability is important to me, so I'm going with a LaRue QD mount. Basically my goal for this rifle is to create something extremely accurate at long range, and suitable at close range if you take of the scope and flip up the irons. For a scope, the guy I talked to at Gander Mtn recommended a something with a little less magnification, said it would be better at ranges inside and up to 100 yards (which is going to be where I zero the rifle). I'd like very much to stick with Vortex brand scopes, they've always impressed me with their quality and customer service, and I feel some sense of loyalty to their brand. My uninformed picks so far are from their coming PST line, due out this spring: Viper PST 6-24x50 Viper PST 4-16x50 I'm guessing the second one has lesser magnification, but that's only based on price point. Like I said, I'm out of my league here. Anyone got any recommendations from the two (or something else). Perhaps a little education for an eager pupil on what the numbers after the name mean? Suggestions on what I should be looking for in a long range AR scope? Thanks much. I don't really have any recommendations for scopes, but I do like the Vortex stuff. I have a 2-7x33 Diamondback on one of my ARs. But I am going to break down the numbers for you. In the first one you posted, 6-24 is the magnification range, meaning it ranges from being magnified from 6 times up to 24 times. 50 is the size of the front lense in millimeters. The larger the front lense, the more light it brings in and the better the scope preforms in lower light settings. So basically, anything before the "x" is magnification and anything after is the size of the front lense. ETA: Here's a pic of what my rig looks like with the smaller scope on it.   |
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I really not to familar with viper optics but i can help a little on those numbers....
On the first one listed...."6-24" means that the scope has a minimum power of 6X and then a maximum power of 24X....with you the user being able to then "range" the whole gamete b/t those minimum and maximum magnification levels. Its basically 6 times your naked eye through 24 times the strength of your naked eye if you want to think of it that way. the the "x50" part is referring to the objective's diameter, and that a whole different thread explaining pros and cons of sizes for the OBJ. Generally the larger, the more ability a scope has to collect light transmissions and thus allowing you to shoot obviously in darker environments, but aids in an overall more clear sight picture or clarity of the glass. Just based purely on specs, not actual scopes...i think you will be prob. happier in a 4-16 than a 6-24 unless you plan on doing mostly bench target shooting. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm new to the whole "hanging stuff on your rifle" gig. Just got my first red dot (Vortex Strikefire, which I do dearly love) last year, and more of those have found their ways onto my rifles. I can get them sighted in and shoot well with them, but I've yet to even buy a real rifle scope. I'm slowly assembling the pieces for a long range rifle build, and now I need to decide on a scope for it. Oh man am I in over my head. Tube sizes, types of magnification, types of mounts...I AM a complete n00b when it comes to anything with magnification. Quick detach capability is important to me, so I'm going with a LaRue QD mount. Basically my goal for this rifle is to create something extremely accurate at long range, and suitable at close range if you take of the scope and flip up the irons. For a scope, the guy I talked to at Gander Mtn recommended a something with a little less magnification, said it would be better at ranges inside and up to 100 yards (which is going to be where I zero the rifle). I'd like very much to stick with Vortex brand scopes, they've always impressed me with their quality and customer service, and I feel some sense of loyalty to their brand. My uninformed picks so far are from their coming PST line, due out this spring: Viper PST 6-24x50 Viper PST 4-16x50 I'm guessing the second one has lesser magnification, but that's only based on price point. Like I said, I'm out of my league here. Anyone got any recommendations from the two (or something else). Perhaps a little education for an eager pupil on what the numbers after the name mean? Suggestions on what I should be looking for in a long range AR scope? Thanks much. I don't really have any recommendations for scopes, but I do like the Vortex stuff. I have a 2-7x33 Diamondback on one of my ARs. But I am going to break down the numbers for you. In the first one you posted, 6-24 is the magnification range, meaning it ranges from being magnified from 6 times up to 24 times. 50 is the size of the front lense in millimeters. The larger the front lense, the more light it brings in and the better the scope preforms in lower light settings. So basically, anything before the "x" is magnification and anything after is the size of the front lense. ETA: Here's a pic of what my rig looks like with the smaller scope on it. http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn183/bdawg998/PC200212.jpg http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn183/bdawg998/PC200213.jpg Damn i took the time to bumble my way through a crappy response all to see someone did it first 
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Thanks for the explanations. That's why I love this site, everybody's willing to help.
The vast majority of shooting with this rifle is going to be done from the bench, 'cause it's pretty heavy. So maybe the 6-24 would be best. Unless as my friend said, it would be hard to use for closer-in work. Thoughts? Thanks again. |
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Vortex has a good reputation around here, and I want to try them out. I don't think that the PST scopes have been released yet. They are very highly anticipated.
Scopes are pretty task specific. What sort of AR is this going on? A rifle or carbine? At what distances are you planning to shoot? If you want the scope to be able to serve as a short range optic as well, you'll want something with a low magnification as well. At least something that goes down to 2X. I do most of my shooting at 100 yards and under. I settled on a Sightron Big Sky 1.25-5X20. It's an excellent scope. I took it out for the first time this past weekend and was able to consistently hit 2" spinners and 100 yards without any problems at all. Golf balls were easy too. The scopes that you are looking at also have lit reticles. They seem to be all the rage and are useful if implemented well and are a down right PITA when not. Scopes with lit reticles are also much heavier than their non lit counterparts. If this is a rifle that will be shot off of a bi pod, then weight is your friend. If you are planning to do any off hand shooting, a big scope might be too much weight. Also remember, the higher the magnification, the smaller the field of view. Scopes with big magnification have their "up close" limitations. Smaller field of view, bigger, heavier, bulkier, and you will actually realize how much you shake when trying to get on target. If your shooting is usually at around 100 yards, check these out: Weaver V3 1-3X20 Nikon African 1-4X20 Sightron Big Sky 1.25-5X20 Leupold Mark AR There's also going to be a low magnification model PST. It just weighs about half a pound more than the others. All of the ones I mentioned will be around half a pound and under 10" long. You don't need big magnification to shoot long distances, unless you are shooting at really small stuff. Then you have to consider that even a good rifle that's shooting MOA will be shooting a 6 inch group at 600 yards at best. |
| I used to always want as high a magnification as possible. Aim small, miss small. This is still true for my bench-only guns, but for something that MIGHT get dragged out into the woods, a 2.5-10 or my favorite, a 4-16 is about perfect for my bolt gun. For an AR, I would lean towards the 2.5-10 range and funds/use dependant, run an offset red dot. |
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Sorry to keep asking questions, but this was just posted by the people at Vortex regarding another customer's question:
Your only choices would be do you want a first focal plane reticle, or second focal plane? Do you want mrad/mrad, or MOA/MOA?
My personal preference would be to go FFP and mrad/mrad. Would anybody be able to decipher that for me? Thanks. |
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Quoted:
Sorry to keep asking questions, but this was just posted by the people at Vortex regarding another customer's question: Your only choices would be do you want a first focal plane reticle, or second focal plane? Do you want mrad/mrad, or MOA/MOA?
My personal preference would be to go FFP and mrad/mrad. Would anybody be able to decipher that for me? Thanks. FFP= First Focal Plane, and is a nicer option in glass...just this option alone on NightForce optics is $400 so this is a high in option that for some is really not going to be warranted. Mrad/MOA= means the units by which you make adjustments to elevation and wind-age on your turrents, and see below more a better MOA explanation... The arcminute is commonly found in the firearms industry and literature, particularly that concerning the accuracy of rifles, though the industry tends to refer to it as minute of angle. It is popular because 1 MOA subtends approximately one inch at 100 yards, a traditional distance on target ranges. A shooter can easily readjust their rifle scope by measuring the distance in inches the bullet hole is from the desired impact point, and adjusting the scope that many MOA in the same direction. Most target scopes designed for long distances are adjustable in quarter (¼) or eighth (⅛) MOA "clicks". One eighth MOA is equal to approximately an eighth of an inch at 100 yards or one inch at 800 yards. Calculating the physical equivalent group size equal to one minute of arc can be done using the equation: equivalent group size = tan(MOA/60) × distance. In the example previously given and substituting 3600 inches for 100 yards, 3600 tan(1 MOA/60) inches = 1.047 inches. In metric units 1 MOA at 100 meters = 2.908 centimeters. Sometimes, a firearm's accuracy will be measured in MOA. This simply means that under ideal conditions, the gun with certain ammunition is capable of producing a group of shots whose center points (center-to-center) fit into a circle, the average diameter of circles in several groups can be subtended by that amount of arc. (E.g.: a "1 MOA rifle" should be capable, under ideal conditions, of shooting an average 1-inch groups at 100 yards, a "2 MOA rifle" a average 2-inch groups at 100 yards, etc.) Some manufacturers such as Weatherby and Cooper offer actual guarantees of real-world MOA performance. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Sorry to keep asking questions, but this was just posted by the people at Vortex regarding another customer's question: Your only choices would be do you want a first focal plane reticle, or second focal plane? Do you want mrad/mrad, or MOA/MOA?
My personal preference would be to go FFP and mrad/mrad. Would anybody be able to decipher that for me? Thanks. FFP= First Focal Plane, and is a nicer option in glass...just this option alone on NightForce optics is $400 so this is a high in option that for some is really not going to be warranted. Mrad/MOA= means the units by which you make adjustments to elevation and wind-age on your turrents, and see below more a better MOA explanation... The arcminute is commonly found in the firearms industry and literature, particularly that concerning the accuracy of rifles, though the industry tends to refer to it as minute of angle. It is popular because 1 MOA subtends approximately one inch at 100 yards, a traditional distance on target ranges. A shooter can easily readjust their rifle scope by measuring the distance in inches the bullet hole is from the desired impact point, and adjusting the scope that many MOA in the same direction. Most target scopes designed for long distances are adjustable in quarter (¼) or eighth (⅛) MOA "clicks". One eighth MOA is equal to approximately an eighth of an inch at 100 yards or one inch at 800 yards. Calculating the physical equivalent group size equal to one minute of arc can be done using the equation: equivalent group size = tan(MOA/60) × distance. In the example previously given and substituting 3600 inches for 100 yards, 3600 tan(1 MOA/60) inches = 1.047 inches. In metric units 1 MOA at 100 meters = 2.908 centimeters. Sometimes, a firearm's accuracy will be measured in MOA. This simply means that under ideal conditions, the gun with certain ammunition is capable of producing a group of shots whose center points (center-to-center) fit into a circle, the average diameter of circles in several groups can be subtended by that amount of arc. (E.g.: a "1 MOA rifle" should be capable, under ideal conditions, of shooting an average 1-inch groups at 100 yards, a "2 MOA rifle" a average 2-inch groups at 100 yards, etc.) Some manufacturers such as Weatherby and Cooper offer actual guarantees of real-world MOA performance. The difference in price between FFP and not on the PST line is $150. A jump from $850 to a grand. It sounds like that's a good buy? And would I be correct in assuming that MRAD vs MOA is sort of like metric vs inch? |
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