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Posted: 11/23/2009 2:48:23 PM EDT
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is there any advantage of using an acog over say a leupold 1.5-5x20 or nightforce 1-4x24 scope? im wanting to putthis on a recce style rifle.
ive never looked through or handled an acog, but was wondering about them. are they basically just a fixed power scope? or is there something different about them than a conventional scope? thanks |
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is there any advantage of using an acog over say a leupold 1.5-5x20 or nightforce 1-4x24 scope? im wanting to putthis on a recce style rifle. ive never looked through or handled an acog, but was wondering about them. are they basically just a fixed power scope? or is there something different about them than a conventional scope? thanks To answer you're question, 1. Yes, they're fixed power, generally 4x (though there are some models that have other magnifications) To address the advantages of the ACOG: 1. The fact that they're fixed power means there are no internal moving parts as there are in variable power scopes, meaning the scope is stronger. 2. It's bulletproof (literally), or at least strong enough to stop a bullet. 3. It doesn't need batteries. During the day, it's powered by a fiber-optics assembly. At night, it's powered by tritium. 4. It has a built in BDC (bullet drop compensator). You hold the markings on the BDC over your target, and by assessing its size to a 12" object (or a human torso - what it was intended for), you can tell the exact range and have an exact compensation for the elevation. Basically, align a human torso with the line that is the same width and pull the trigger. The disadvantages: 1. Most every ACOG has a BDC that's calibrated for an exact barrel length and bullet weight. At close range (0-200yds), there isn't too much of a difference. Past that, and you'll find most (not all) will be very hard to match up to if you're not using the same barrel length and ammunition it was calibrated for. The fact is that the ACOG was designed to be a combat scope, not a precision scope. It's not so much a disadvantage as it is simply what they were made for. 2. Fixed power - again, not necessarily a disadvantage. Just keep in mind it's relatively inefficient to use them for short-range work. It CAN be done, but that doesn't make it practical. 3. The tritium needs to be replaced every 12 years or so. Again, not huge drawback, but it is about ~$200 if you choose to keep the scope and want it replaced when the time comes. The advantage of the ACOG is that it's super-simple and super-effective. It's used to hit man-sized targets (people, actually) from 0-600yds with little work. However, it's not a precision optic and making nice, small groups isn't what it was designed for. If you simply want a rugged scope that can hit decently small targets quickly, then an ACOG would serve you well. If you want to precision shoot from a bench or a mat and you have slow, controlled firing sessions, then you most likely want a variable-power precision scope. It's simply simple, fast, and sturdy vs complex, slower, yet more accurate. Now, if you want a combination of both, then I'd suggest a hybrid type scope that incorporates a red-dot type reticule with a variable power scope, such as a Swarovski Z6i, Schmidt & Bender Short Dot, or a Meopta kdot. |
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the acogs field of view is very nice, and the glass is crystal clear. cqb can be done with any scope with practice. It can be very quick and accurate with a little range time. just use like an armason sight... Im still not sure what im getting, either an acog or a burris xtr-14 in a larue mount.... decisions decisions...
eta, for a shtf gun, or battle weapon, id use the acog (or mil or leo), but im actually leaning towards a 1-4 since im an accuracy buff. Ill have to try an acog before i decide though. what i want to know is, why cant the acog be used as a precision optic? i keep reading this here, but it doesnt make sense. Im under the impression that the acog cant shoot very tight groups... am i taking this wrong or what? will the xtr-14 allow me to shoot smaller groups than the acog? |
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The tritium needs to be replaced every 12 years or so. Trijicon guarantees the tritium capsule for 15 years - So it's safe to assume it lasts at least that long. One of the ACOG's key advantages is that the aiming point (dot, chevron, triangle, etc. depending on the particular model) is brightly illuminated (in most light conditions), which can make it quicker to put on the target than the reticle in many conventional scopes. In this regard, it mimics a red dot sight - and some ACOGs can be used at close ranges in a similar manner to a red dot , by keeping both eyes open (i.e., the "Bindon Aiming Concept"). |
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The tritium needs to be replaced every 12 years or so. Trijicon guarantees the tritium capsule for 15 years - So it's safe to assume it lasts at least that long. One of the ACOG's key advantages is that the aiming point (dot, chevron, triangle, etc. depending on the particular model) is brightly illuminated (in most light conditions), which can make it quicker to put on the target than the reticle in many conventional scopes. In this regard, it mimics a red dot sight - and some ACOGs can be used at close ranges in a similar manner to a red dot , by keeping both eyes open (i.e., the "Bindon Aiming Concept"). The half-life of Tritium is 12 years (12.3 years, +/- 8 days, to be exact). Trijicon's guarantee only guarantees that the Tritium itself will still function as, well, Tritium. In 12 years (or less), your sight illumination will be 1/2 of what it was when the ACOG was new. No "guarantee" can replace physics. |
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They both have advantages and disadvantages. Some guys that have stigmatisms have a hard time seeing the reticle of the ACOG were a standard style scope have a diopter that will allow the shooter to set the reticle to there eye. Another plus for MK4 is that you have adjustable target turrets, I really like the M2 turret.
The ACOGS are outstanding scopes one of the best for AR platform rifles. Mike @ CS TACTICAL.com CS Gunworks is now CS TACTICAL.com www.cstactical.com [email protected] Here’s some testimonials about CS GunWorks / CS Tactical FEEDBACK about CSGUNWORKS / CS Tactical on AR15.com FEEDBACK about CSGUNWORKS / CS Tactical on Snipersparadise FEEDBACK about CSGUNWORKS / CS Tactical on the HIDE |
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what i want to know is, why cant the acog be used as a precision optic? i keep reading this here, but it doesnt make sense. Im under the impression that the acog cant shoot very tight groups... am i taking this wrong or what? will the xtr-14 allow me to shoot smaller groups than the acog? It's mainly due to the BDC. The entire purpose of an ACOG is speed in acquiring targets (and hitting them) at a distance. To aid in this, most ACOG's feature a BDC, which is calibrated for a specific barrel length shooting a specific load/round. The BDC is designed for a fixed, non-variable-power optic. Instead of dialing in an elevation adjustment like you would on most target scopes, or having an exact holdover in mil-dots, you simply guesstimate the distance by judging the size of the BDC's stadia to either the target or a 12"-wide object near the target. You elevate the BDC over the target until the stadia matches the width of the target. By doing so, you know both the range, as well as having the correct elevation correction for a shot. Remember, however, that the BDC is computed for an exact loadout with an exact barrel length. Unless you're using that exact combo, your round's trajectory will differ. Even if it's minute, it's enough to make it matter for precision/benchrest shooting. Now, you could zero your ACOG to be dead on at 50yds or whatever zero distance you might use. However, unless you specifically zero your "zero" high or low to compensate for this difference, your BDC will be off at almost every distance except the distance your zero'd it at, making it virtually guesswork to hit targets at any other distance. If you do average your trajectory to match the BDC, then it works well for everyday plinking and for hitting human-sized targets in their killzone, but the BDC won't match perfectly and hitting targets and different distances will still take some guesstimating, meaning less precision. If you're one of the few that has the same barrel and round combo that the ACOG was sighted with, then you'll find it slightly more accurate, but the very nature of elevation adjustment still allows for more error than a tradition scope. That all said, the ACOG is a combat scope and it was meant to function as one - that it does very well. That considered, the ACOG's method of elevation compensation is VERY effective in combat, since it makes it easy to average the distance to a target. However, this doesn't work well for precision shooting, where you want exact holdovers, exact turret corrections, etc. |
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I run a TA11 w/ donut on a 16" precision AR10 that I use for everything from CQB to 700+. The TA11 has very good eye relief and if used with both eyes open it can be very fast in close; I have run some timing studies at 5m to 15m rapid acquisition targets and - with sufficient practice –– the times are very close to those for Iron sights if the ACOG is used correctly (i.e. shoot with both eyes open when the donut is on the target and don't wait until one sees the target through the scope). The Donut can get in the way a bit at the 300 yard range, but out at 500+ the little cross hairs for 400 and up work ok (though one has to calibrate them for one's particular rifle and round). On problem with ACOGS is when one is in a dark place shooting toward a brightly lite place the fiber optic does not light the donut so one is back to standard cross hairs.
I have a nightforce 2.5-10 on another AR that is better at longer ranges but not as good in close. the problem with variable power scopes is that I ALWAYS forget to dial it back to the lowest setting (the machine between the ears is always the key problem :) ). |
| One issue with the ACOG is when used in low light (not dark) situations. There is not enough ambient light to power the fiber optics and it is not dark enought yet for the tritum to be effective, resulting in a dark or not visible chevron (or whatever reticle one has). If they would add an LED light source to the ACOG's with long battery life like an Aimpoint, that would be a winner. |
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ok, so shooting tight groups isnt an issue(aiming the same everytime) but the bdc being off is the only issue? I would think it would be easy to adust for that, just remember that for whatever ammo your using, the 400yd line is actually zerod for 450 or whatever...
but using an acog for tight groups isnt difficult is it? |
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ok, so shooting tight groups isnt an issue(aiming the same everytime) but the bdc being off is the only issue? I would think it would be easy to adust for that, just remember that for whatever ammo your using, the 400yd line is actually zerod for 450 or whatever... but using an acog for tight groups isnt difficult is it? Technically you're correct, but in practice, it's far more difficult. Remember, the point of getting a scope is to have it assist you in aiming. The ACOG wasn't designed for precision aiming, it was designed for quick aiming. Since you don't need quick follow-ups in precision shooting, the ACOG loses its advantage and you're better off with a reticle designed for precision. Also, remember all of of your elevation and windage corrections will be holdovers, yet you don't have any windage holdover markings and very few elevation holdover markings (all 100yd increments). This is what makes it hard to make small groups on paper, especially at odd distances. But yes, it's possible to do what you mentioned, but its also VERY difficult (to shoot sub-MOA, anyways). |
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