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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Should i go EO tech (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 9/8/2008 4:44:09 PM EDT
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I have a spikes/ cmmg M4 I want to add an optic i want an Aimpoint . but have been thinking of going with an EO tech 512 should i just keep saving for the Aimpoint and stop trying to rush? also should i go with the cheaper comp ML2 i would like the ML3 due to better battery life and i would get the 2 moa model thanks for your thoughts Nick |
| I would buy what you want. I have an eotech 517. It serves my needs. The eotech has a good field of view and uses AA bateries. If you are not going into combat, I would save the money and go with an eotech. If your heart is set on an aimpoint then save your money and buy the aimpoint. I bought my eotech from botachtactical. I saw the best deal on aimpoints at that site (ML3 $390.00). Aimpoint has a scope like field of view. I would look at both before you buy. Aimpoint has a 10 year warranty vs 2 year for eotech. You will probable not use the warranty for either. Aimpoint needs a seperate mount for ML2 and ML3. |
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I've owned 3 EOtechs now, and each one has crapped out on me. The first one had serious battery drainage issues, the second one actually came apart while shooting, and the third one had a faulty reticle. Eotech fixed each one, but every time one came back from the factory I sold it. This in NOT normal, but it has caused me to switch over to Aimpoints. I've had two now, and they've been utterly reliable. I recommend saving for an ML3. |
Actually, there are US Army units going into combat with EOTechs. I like my 512. The cross-hair reticle is a lot easier to use than just the plain dot of an Aimpoint, IMHO. |
And there are a crap ton more with Aimpoints... I bought a 512 for my beater rifle when DPMS had that crazy sale a couple months ago. It works alright for that rifle, but my other cqb rifles will get Aimpoints. |
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Either optic is a good choice. The EOTech has a sweet reticle and a very large field of view. The Aimpoint is a conventional dot-in-a-tube design with high marks for reliability due to its relative simplicity. Batteries and electronics can spontaneously fail, so I would not run either sight without backup irons. I really like my EOTech 512. Since I'm looking out a window instead of through a tube, I don't experience tunnel-vision like I do with red dots. The EOTech reticle is much faster to pickup without your head perfectly centered, as the outer ring directs your eye to the dot. I also like the fact that EOTech sights co-witness right out of the box. With Aimpoint, you have to buy a separate and expensive ($100+) mount. Aimpoints are great sights, but the price is very high for what you get. At Aimpoint prices, I want automatic brightness control and an included co-witness mount. Also, it seems rather silly to pay a significant premium for the new Aimpoints with "up to 8 years battery life" when $20 would buy you a lifetime supply of AA, coin, or button batteries for a slightly less efficient sight. |
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Here's the way I see it: The equipment exchange on this board allows you to try things out. You can find Eotech 512's for $300 shipped all day on the EE. Buy one off the EE for $300 and if you don't like it sell it for $300 shipped like what you bought it for. You'll be out $10 shipping total to see if you like an EOtech or not. That's what I'm doing and if I don't like it I'll do the same thing for an Aimpoint. |
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Save your money and get the Aimpoint. If you check the EE you should be able to find a used ML2 4MOA for $250-300 and someone is always selling off the QRP mounts for around $50. The little bit of extra money you pay for the Aimpoint is worth having what I have found to be the most reliable RDS available today. |
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I have been an Eotech guy for many years. I just got an Aimpoint Comp M4s and LOVE IT ! ! ! I will be switching to Aimpoints in the future. Pros - appear a lot tougher, longer warranty, battery life is great, uses AA battery, 2 MOA dot (on mine - you can get 4 MOA) is crisp, doesn't get washed out, easier to adjust Cons - I still miss the reticle of the Eotech, but I will get used to the dot on the Aimpoint quickly. |
| I've had two EOTechs (551 and a 512) and both exhibited serious battery drainage issues. When shooting carbine matches with the EOTech 551 (local IDPA - we shoot our scenarios with carbines in the afternoon after shooting handguns in the morning), I would have to turn the thing off between stages to try and save enough juice to get me through the match. With regard to the 512, in all honesty, I bet I didn't get a full 2 hours of actual "on" time (over about a one year period) using Energizer lithium batteries before going dead. Some have had great experiences with EOTech. I am not bashing them in any way. They are fast and have a great reticle. My personal experience has led to my selling both units. Currently, I am in the process of replacing them with Aimpoints. |
While I don't doubt your issues, I've had the exact opposite experience. Both of my M2 Aimpoints had issues with randomly turning off and on one the lens coating was so bad that I could see blotches through the sight. I've used a few 552 EoTechs without any issues. I will, however, admit that there are probably more problems with EoTechs than there are with Aimpoint sights. BUIS are a must with any electronic sight as far as I'm concerned. Murphy doesn't care what you bought, he'll screw it up when he feels like it. 
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I have 2 EoTechs: 512 (AA) and a 511 (N) and neither had an issue. Never had the battery drain, self disassembly or anything. I know these are issues that have been reported, I just havent had any troubles. The "N" 511 is probably 8+ years old and is now on my teenagers AR. The more costly "N" type batteries are a trade off for the more compact size. The "AA" 512 is appox. 4+ years old and is the "Rev. F" model and is great with battery life. At most the batteries are changed 1x per year. Having said all of that, I love my ACOG too!!! |
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I love the combat between Aimpoint lovers and EOTech lovers. It's like the Ford vs. Chevy of the shooting world. Man 1, "Well, I owned 4 different Chevy trucks in my day, and every one of them has broken down!" Man 2, "Yeah? Well, my cousin has a Chevy truck with 300,000 miles on it, and it still runs fine!" God, I love it |
| I've got both and bothe work well with no problems. The Eotech has a broader field of view and dot with 65moa circle. I like it. The Aimpoint has lots longer battery life and a tube. I like it. Cost factor is the Eotech can be mounted on a flat top as is. The Aipoint will require a mount which will run about $125. |
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+1. I've used both as well and like both. I prefer the EoTech reticle, but just my personal opinion. I've used EoTechs on personal and work guns for quite a few years and never had any problems. Battery life is a lot shorter, but be aware and replace as needed or periodically, like I do. If you do go EoTech, make sure you get a Rev F. If you can, go to your local shop and check them out in person, see which one works for you. |
NickOGlock
Yes. don't go for instant gratification, in the long run, you should get what you want. The differences are pretty easier Two different reticles.. One has better battery life then the other That's it. The "wider field of view" is a wifes tale. With a red dot sight, you shoot with both eyes open. one focuses on the target, the other on the reticle, not the shape of the housing. So there you have it. Which reticle do you like and is longer battery life important to you. |
 Take a photo with both eyes open, oh, wait... |
Looking through the tube of aimpoints (in my experience) is slightly slower than EOTech. EO's dont have any nobs, or shapes around the view window making it less busy when looking though. The 65moa 1moa dot reticule is also large for speed yet precise for accuracy at the same time. That is the ONLY reason I bought an EOTech. Oh how I wish that they had a better reputation for battery life. I hear the horror stories but I have never had a problem with my 512. Been on the same battery for almost a year and never missed a beat. Both are extremely rugged COMBAT optics and very durable and typically wont let you down. The military uses both. I know aimpoints have the rugged edge and an ongoing reputation of lasting forever. HOWEVER, For someone like I who wanted a strong durable quality optic who isn't in the military and doesn't plan on using my rifle for anything other than yotes, rabbits, water jugs, and for when zombies come, The EOTechs are plenty durable and will do just fine for what I need it for, its just a preference issue. The other issue often talked about is speed. I'm sorry, but IMO there is no disputing the speed of the EOTech. Having used both optics, I am much quicker with EOTechs, especially for moving targets. here is why:     Notice that all the stuff around the edge of the aimpoints gets in the way. The nobs, and lens covers etc are blocking the shooter from the space between the outer photo to the inside FOV of the aimpoint tube. Thus making it slower for target acquisition. Notice with the EOTechs there is relatively nothing between the FOV window and the outside area, making it much faster to put on targets. The reticule with These optics also increases speed because of the 65moa circle. Some say these differences don't matter but they do. Of course anyone can train to be quick with either optic but the fact of the matter is, EOTechs are faster optics for target acquisition. For me, the compromise of battery life for a quicker optic was a reasonable one. for some its not, and they are just fine with the most reliable longer lasting optic and just deal with MINUTE differences of speed. All in all, its preference, nothing more... but that's my 2 cents. |
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Actually, a larger window does give an advantage, but not in FOV. Instead, since both sights are parallax free, a larger window means your eye can be more off-center and still see the aiming point, thus giving you more "forgiveness" when it comes to positioning yourself while looking through the scope. Now here's the interesting part. The EOTech 516 has window dimensions of 30mm x 23mm which = 690 sq mm of window. The Aimpoint has a 30mm objective, which yields a PIxRxR = PI x 15 x 15 = 707 sq mm of window. So actually, by my calculations, the Aimpoint has a little more usable area in its window. |
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Munition, Yes, I do think the EoTech does probably have slightly faster target aquisition time, but I think it's because of the reticle design (large circle with a central dot vs. the solitary dot on the Aimpoint) NOT because of the extra "stuff" around the aimpoint, since ALL OF THAT GOES AWAY WHEN YOU USE THE SIGHT PROPERLY like WITH BOTH EYES OPEN. If you only have one eye, then it probably makes a huge difference. That, plus most people probably should set their flip caps so that they flip down instead of to the side, thus not blocking any of the view for the one-eyed shooters. But, hey, both are good sights. I just would never trust my life to an EoTech.
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I've used EoTechs on my work guns and I've trusted my life to them as I'm sure many others have.....just as many have done the same with aimpoints. The bottom line is this. The EoTech does not have remotely the battery life of an Aimpoint. If you know this and you prefer the EoTech, there is no reason you can't operate with it just as effectively. Know the battery limitations...test them and replace them often. Doing this has served me well, I've never had any problems. I know there are others that have, but I've seen and used plenty without issue. I'm not going to bash either, as I like them both. Some prefer EoTech and some Aimpoint.....just like the legendary chocolate vs. vanilla debate...  I guess it is just getting old the use of the "I would never trust my life" to an EoTech line. I've survived using EoTechs, but like I said, know its limitations and plan for them. my 2 cents worth... |
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It is a personal choice. You may have trusted your life to it, but it does not meet my standards. I can understand and appreciate the technical benefits it has. To me, being slightly faster picking up the reticle is a benefit, but a marginal one. I absolutely will not trust it because of many of the critical problems I have heard of with battery life. If I had not read the countless problems people have had with the batteries draining when the unit it off, I probably would own several. I can live with everything else with the sight. The fact that some of them out there drain batteries quickly even when turned off is a deal breaker FOR ME. Just because it meets YOUR standards, does not mean it meets MY standards, and that means the "I would never trust my life to it" isn't just a canned phrase for me. You are just sick of hearing it from so many people. Just because many are saying it, doesn't mean it's just a canned phrase. Maybe there's something to it. Just because you have survived using it, doesn't mean it's a good choice. If I go through red-lights at intersections without looking and don't die, then is it reasonable to assume it's a good course of action on a regular basis? I believe something has to pass 2 important tests: a theoretical analysis, and a practical analysis. If something passes both for me, then it's good enough. If anything is missing either, then I don't trust it. The battery life issue is a major stumbling block on my theoretical test. OK, combat units do use the EoTech, but then again, maybe they deal with issues like the battery life by replacing batteries before each mission, something I cannot do as an individual. They have deep pockets and can afford to do that to overcome its technical limitations. That way they can take optimal advantage of its benefits and be okay. That doesn't mean it's okay for me. |
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ask this guy http://www.redishconstruction.com/images/Personal/Gun/AimpointM4.jpg or this guy http://www.redishconstruction.com/images/Personal/Gun/EotechM4.jpg They're both going to work well, it just depends on which one fits your needs better. An ideal situation would be for you to try them both and decide what your more comfortable with, barring that, just pick the one you think is right for you and move on. |
That image is to show the difference when using a night vision device mounted behind the optic. In that context, I believe it is a accurate representation. The difference during the day is not as different. |
| I will be getting a AIMPOINT COMPM4 for free from a friend that owes me a huge favor. I will post a photo with my upper when it gets in. A shooting buddy wants to trade me for his EOtech 551. I have always used a AIMPOINT weapons sight since being in the military and have never used a Eotech. I have had no problems with my service aimpoint at all and I am worried about switching to the EOtech. I said at first ok, that's fine with me sounds like a good trade. I am now having second thoughts and if what people are saying is true, I am really thinking of sticking with the Aimpoint. |
\ The eo tech has a widescreen type view and the aimpoint has a tube type view. Just like in movies widescreen shows more, unless someone is falling out of the sky most uses will be wide screen targeting, where eo tech come in handy. I have the eo tech n size battery rev f. Almost a year later still have same battery and about 4 hrs of range time on it. I have used bushnell trophy sight and while it worked fine the fov was alot smaller and tube like, like a hunting scope. Never tried an aimpoint yet. |
Fixed it for you.  The calculations are spot on, but I wouldnt say that its more USABLE area. Thats why we dont watch "round" TVs!!! I also thought the Aimpoint looked "cluttered" with both eyes open. Also, to address the battery issue, like anything else, test it in the field, at the range, leave it on during the football game...... try it out before you slap it on a weapon and stake your life on it. Prove it out like all equipment and become confident in it, if not then find exactly what you do feel confident in. |
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I just purchased an Eotech 512 last week and it is my first one so I cannot comment on battery life except to say that if it does die when I need it then it is no big deal for me because I have BUIS to transition to. I do like the reticle of the Eotech better because of the 1MOA dot vs. the 2 or 4MOA for being more precise. |
I appreciate your analysis and I didn't intend to sound overly critical of your post. My point is simply that a lot of people tend to trash either optic and that's fine. Many of those that post don't make a living carrying the weapon....I know, there are plenty that do. Both are good for different situations in my opinion. With any gear, test and check, know its limitations and strong points (weak points too) and it will serve you well. 
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If you're so worried about eating through batteries, run down to Wally-World and pick up a 4-pack of NiMH rechargeables and a charger for $20. Just rotate the batteries between the sight and the charger for indefinite runtime. Or get a 24-pack of alkalines for $12. That's almost a year of continuous runtime. Now, consider that the Aimpoint needs a $125 co-witness mount. For that you could buy 10 AA 24-packs and keep your EOTech running continuously for ~10 years. |
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[ That's it. The "wider field of view" is a wifes tale. With a red dot sight, you shoot with both eyes open. one focuses on the target, the other on the reticle, not the shape of the housing. Everyone has an opinion. Yes these are both used with both eyes open. I've used both in tacticle situations and the Eotech is quicker for me. personally. |
Thanks. I hope I didn't sound like I was being critical, too. Peace. |
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As for the EOTech reliability issue - The earlier versions did have many issues. But on average, the new ones are known to be much better. Not to say they're 100%, but they are reasonably reliable now. IMO - the EOTech is like a race car - kicks ass in speed on target , but isn't quiet as durable as the Aimpoint which is the Porsche 911 of red dots. Quick and reliable, but still just a street car. J223... |
That's a good way to put it! |
Excellent post and bears repeating...You are my new hero...
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C'mon Harv....no stirring up trouble... 
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Well i got myself a 512 went out to a friends property to try it out this morning and . as long as it has no issues im happy with it. Im able to be on the move and still make decent hits on multiple targets. somthing that i was much slower on with my Iron sights, that being said my Iron sights are not going anywhere , EVER . i love going to my friends wooded property and shooting |
That image has to be one of the most misleading marketing BS things ever published. As far as use with NV, the area oustide of the optic doesn't somehow mysteriously go black either, so again WRONG. The fundamental issue is does one want a CQB optic that never gets turned off and is always ready to go, or does he want one that might work when he needs it. Aimpoint T-1 is the best answer. |
| I aggree with the Aimpoint T1 .. being the best ever. i just couldnt afford on at this time . but your right. and i will take care not to damage the EO tech , so i can sell it on the EE here and get most of my money back out of it then upgrade to the T1. im just trying to spend on the right things for now with the election coming , so that 250 dollar differance is going toward ammo |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Should i go EO tech (Page 1 of 2)
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