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Posted: 1/15/2008 4:13:10 PM EDT
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OK so here is the deal, I purchased an ACOG w/ an ARMS mount and the mounting screws were red loctited. Why? Dont ask me. Anyway, I was able to get the first screw out fine, w/ about an inch or so of deflection on the allen key. The second one was deflecting to the point where i thought it might break the wrench, and then "crack" the allen key actually rounded out the entire allen head, except for about 2 of the flats, it is completely round. Upon inspection of the first screw, it seems that it had very little loctite on it, this one must have alot :D I know if i heat it up enough it will come out easy enough, but I dont want to hurt the acog because alot of the heat transfers through to the scope. Is the heat something i should be worried about? How the hell am i supposed to get this screw out of here. NOTE: What i have tried so far: I JB welded an allen wrench into the screw, and that didnt seem to work very well, it twisted out without too much effort, however did leave a nice indent of the allen key in the head, almost giving it a new head, i can get some fairly decent torque on it, but not near enough to break the loctite. Also let PB blaster soak in for day and a half, did nothing. Thought about using PB blaster letting it soak and then setting the blaster on fire so it would melt the loctite...again, not sure if this would hurt the ACOG. HELP! UPDATE!: It is out!, so is the helicoil but I have a tool on the way to replace that. |
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Isn't there a loctite dissolver? I'd try the loctite site to see what they offer. If not, I'd probably use a electric soldering iron and try to heat the screw up carefully trying to get it out every so often. FWIW, here's how I have taken allen headed screws out of stuff that was locktited in. The heads were probably bigger but I covered the surrounding area with old leather bits and melted a bit of solder into the head of it. I placed the tip of the iron in the solder and let it melt and transfer heat for a while, flipped the piece on the side a bit and inserted the allen wrench, if actually worked quite well. When I got it out, I cooled the part by placing it in the fridge to bring down the temp faster and help cut down on heat sink. |
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If it's truly stripped, you may have to drill it out. If it were something other than a scope, you might weld a hex head screw to it and turn it out, but considering the cost of the scope, I'd find someone to take it out. You might contact Trijicon and see if they can help. That, or simply stick with the mount you have for it now. |
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Something simmilar but not w/ ACOG. I used tap/die set w/ lots of patience and turned just enough thread to grab and was able to back out. If you try this use lots of lubricant. It makes things much easier. If that didnt work I was going to use the drill press to try and work it out. If you try this approach I would make a wooden jig to ensure stablity because it will be a delicate operation. Careful selection of drill bit and a clamped jig it paramount. Wait a few though. I bet someone here has an easier approach. |
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Pics? I'm guessing the screws for the mount are engaging into the sight body itself? If not I'd consider simply drilling out the screw even if it means the mount winds up being toast. But that would only be an option on a mount where it's not threading/attaching directly to the sight(but then there could be options to rethread/tap the threads on the sight body). |
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I would love to get my hands on the idiots that use red loctite on firearms. They are idiots. I bought an AR years ago and some idiot had used red loctite on the pistol grip screw. I sheared it off trying to take it out, and had to have the screw drilled out of the lower. red loctite = 
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The mount is a $160 mount :D so i really would not like it if it was Toast. I HATE the ARMS mounts and only bought this one because my buddy needs the mount, and I already have a larue on the way. Had i known it was red loctited...probably wouldnt have bought it :D I dont see the point in red loctiting a mount to an ACOG, but that is another story. Any ideas/experiences are GREATLY appreciated. |
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don't heat a acog way to much to risk especially if its a aluminum housing. I surprises me that they would use red loctite that stuff is like 2-3 times stronger than the blue. I would look for stripped bolt removing kits you can usually get them at a hardware store for pretty cheap. the jb weld seems like a good idea but im not sure how that would bond to both especially if it has coating on it. If you could do it safely try to force a larger sized allen in to it Did you mean that they actually had them loctited off the rail, the screws you use to adjust pressure on the rail? if so wtf! |
| I would use a backout bit. Since you got one screw out, you should see the limits of how deep and large you can drill. The heat of the drilling should be enough to loosen the loctite, then use the backout bit. One of my most valuable "save my arse" tools in the tool box. |
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I thought about a backout bit, those are the ones where you drill it on reverse and then it goes in and bottoms out then starts turning the screw? I will wait to hear back from trijicon, but im thinking the backout method would be the best. Once again, any other ideas/experience would be greatly appreciated! |
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I would recommend that you go to your local auto store and buy a can of PB Blaster. It's a super lubricant I highly recommend for removing bolts or screws. Spray it on a Q-Tip and apply it directly on the screws. Let the lubricant drip down into the threaded portion of the screw. Let it absorb well, at least a few hours, and try to screw it out. Good Luck. |
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Depending on the grade of loctite, what I would do is the following. Get an allen wrench that you can loose and not care about, Find a welder who can TIG Have said welder do a very quick TIG on the allen wrench to the screw. This should create just enough localized heat to soften the loctite and give you a wrench solidly mounted to the screw so you can pull it out right there and apply somthing very cold to the screw hole to dissipate any excess heat that may damage the ACOG. Yes, a bit complicated, but if you have a guy who can TIG with precision on that small of a surface, it will accomplish what you need withoutundue damage to either the mount or the scope. After that, all you need to do is replace the screw. |
This is a phenominal idea, with a small enough cut off wheel, i might just be able to get down in there and make a slot for a screwdriver. This is worth a shot :D It is soaking w/ PB blaster as we speak, ill try this on thursday and report my winnings, cant hurt anything right, the screw is already forked :D |
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at least it was not loctite green (very permenant) one automotive trick that we use to use for a stuck bolt on a motor, get the bolt pretty good and hot/warm, and use a bar of soap on top/side of the head, heat melts the soap and it wicks between the threads and the threaded cavity, sorta provides a lubricant for the screw to move. also drag across drywall screws on a bar of soap before you drill them into lumber, gets rid of that annoying squeak when drilling them into lumber repeatedly (such as a rear porch or deck) |
| Well it went OK, I ended up having to drill it out, then use a backout bit, this worked fine, but also removed the helicoil threading so It needs to be sent back to Trijicon for that to be repaired since apparantly there is no screw that will thread into 10-32 STI. The mount was saved though and there was no damage to the scope other than the helicoil which is a pretty easy fix i think. |
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If you didn't damage the STI thread you can buy helicoil at some hardware stores and install it yourself. You will need a helicoil and the installation tool. You may also try some fab shops in your area to see if they have a tool or would install it for you. The tool can be expensive if you have to buy it new. Check your home town forum. Look Here |
I was going to suggest this since the same thing happened to me with a TA31 I used to own. Pulled the mounting screws out (with great force), but I had to pound a torx socket into the rounded off allen head to get #2 to bite. When I pulled screw #2, the helicoil insert came 50% of the way out of the scope, so I had no choice but to remove it. A 10/32 helicoil kit is $30 here in Dallas, so it wasn't really CHEAP to fix, but 10 min later (and I had to trim the insert down about 3 coils to it didn't push into the channel used to see your irons) I had if fixed. Or, I would send it to Trijicon and they'll make it right. |
CDC Tool in Richardson???? If not you need to check that place out. That place is cool, if they took CC I would own half the store. |
I can see maybe on set screws, but on an ACOG? The question WHY comes to mind. Blue is more than enough, however I have never needed it on a scope mount :D |
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UPDATE: The scope is fixed and ready to rock, bought a helicoil repair kit for $12.95 shipped on eBay and it took all of about 2 minutes to thread a new helicoil in the 10-32STI hole and it took the 10-32 mounting screw perfectly :D Mounted it in a TA51 mount and it tightens up like new. I will put this on the "experience" list. For anybody who gets a screw loctited...dont mess w/ applying heat. Just use a drill bit that is about half the size of the shaft of the screw, you can drill all the way through because the hole in the base that allows the carry handle iron sights to be used is between the scope body and the drill bit. Drill all the way through, then pick a bit that is about 85% of the size of the screw shaft. Drill through the same way. Then, take a backout bit, and use as directed to remove the screw. When I did this, the screw came out and the helicoil was shot, however if your screw comes out cleanly, then you have nothing to worry about, just thread a new screw. If the helicoil does come out, you need to purchased a helicoil repair kit. I used this one: cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=300190775483&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=020 but I think just about any of them would work as long as they are for 10-32. Follow the instructions w/ the kit (extremely easy) and thread in the new helicoil. Once this is done, the ACOG is as good as new! Hope this helps anyone who is having the same problem. Or you can send it to me and ill fix it for a nominal fee :D |
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