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Posted: 10/27/2007 3:27:13 PM EDT
| Anyone one have any idea's on what one to get for my LaRue stealth 16 build.Im looking at the 5.5-22x56 and cant decied what rectile to get.Any one have any first hand on them? |
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If you want the 5.5-22x56 then go for it. Sure its a little high powered for such a short barrel but it will work just fine. I have a 10x scope on my 16" ar and its just fine for most the target shooting that I do. Occasionally I even wish it had more power. You may not use the higher settings very often but the scope should still work wonderfully. |
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I prefer the 3.5-15x50mm myself but the 5.5-22x56mm will work. If you are putting it on a 16” then either of the scopes is more than you need. If we can help you get a LeRue mount and a Nightforce Scope we can help. Mike @ CSGW www.csgunworks.com [email protected] Here’s some testimonials about CS GunWorks What do YOU have to say about CS GunWorks What Do You Think Of Cs Gunworks? FEEDBACK about CSGUNWORKS.com |
Magnification is only as useful as whatever weapon support position that you are firing from. Mirage effect and light loss are also increased with higher mag. I find 10x to be plenty enough at 300m. I recently received my first NXS last week, and hope to go shoot it this afternoon. It is a really nice optic. I debated the 2.5-10x24 versus 3.5-15x50, and went with the former despite the fact that I run big objectives on my hunting rigs for improved reduced light operation. I don't want a 2# optic on a 16" RECCE-style weapon. I have done some subjective comparison under reduced light, and find the NXS to be close in brightness to a TA11F or 50mm Leupy VX-III, but with a substantially smaller objective/exit pupil. I would imagine that the 50mm NXS's are really bright. I went with the NP-R2 reticle, since my brain thinks better with MOA versus mil-rad's, and the NP-R1 would give even finer resolution for extended ranges. I don't think that you'll be dissapointed with any of them , but bigger is not necessarily better. |
Call up Wes @ Mstn.biz. He'll walk you through the options and give you a great deal  I opted for the NP2 reticle on the 2.5x10-24 for an 18" "SPR" type rifle. The reticle is perfect...for an 18" I'd consider going with the 3.5-15x50 next time, but for a 16", the 2.5x10-24 is probably a little more appropriate. |
there exists a point when too much power makes accentuates any shaking, breathing, or vibration, and also makes follow up shots damn near impossible... my remington 700 has a Leupold Mark IV 6.5-20x50 and my SPR has an NXS 3.5-15x50, both of them tend to sit around 10x |
WHAT KIND OF DUMMY PUTS SUCH A HUGE SCOPE ON A LITTLE RIFLE? THAT WOULD BE ME! BUT, JUST FOR TESTING. IT SAVES HAVING TO DRAG OUT THE SPOTTING SCOPE. FOR MY OWN 16" GUNS, I TYPICALLY GO 2.5-10X24 NXS:  THE LIGHT GATHERING ABILITY OF THIS LITTLE SCOPE IS NOTHING SHORT OF AMAZING. I DID MY OWN COMPARISON WITH OTHER SCOPES AND WAS BLOWN AWAY. I CALLED JEFF HUBER OF NIGHTFORCE TO TELL HIM WHAT I'D OBSERVED. HE CHUCKLED AND SAID THEY WERE QUITE PLEASED WITH THE NIGHT GATHERING ABILITY OF THE LITTLE NF 2.5-10 NXS. IF YOU GO WITH A 56MM OBJECTIVE NIGHTFORCE NXS SCOPE IN THE LARUE SPR SCOPE MOUNT, YOU WILL HAVE SOME TROUBLE GETTING THE SCOPE'S BIKINI LENS COVER OVER THE OBJECTIVE LENS. THE 56MM OBJECTIVE BELL HAS LITTLE CLEARANCE WITH THE FOREND. THE 50MM IS PLENTY BIG AND FAR, FAR MORE POPULAR IN SALES. THE SCOPE YOU SUGGEST IS RIGHT AT HOME ON A .338 LAPUA:  NEVERTHELESS, I DO MOST OF MY TESTING NOW USING A NF 5.5-22X50 NXS - EVEN ON LITTLE GUNS. IT'S ON MY 12.5" NOVESKE BARREL VIS-2 UPPER RIGHT NOW. I'M GOING OUT TO SHOOT GROUPS WITH MY NEW SUREFIRE CAN LATER TODAY. WE HAVE THE NIGHTFORCE 5.5-22X50 NXS WITH NP-R1 RETICLE AND LARUE SPR SCOPE MOUNT CORRECTLY INSTALLED, ON THE SHELF. I CAN HAVE IT THERE IN THE MORNING .... OR THE NF 3.5-22X50 NXS WITH NP-R1 RETICLE AND LARUE SPR SCOPE MOUNT ... OR THE NF 2.5-10X24 NXS WITH NP-R2 RETICLE AND LARUE SPR SCOPE MOUNT ... AND WE CAN GET WHATEVER YOU WANT - JUST TAKES TIME. GOOD SHOOTING, WES GRANT MSTN.BIZ |
I agree. Big powerful scopes allow you to see little tiny holes at very long distances. Especially if you don't want to lug around a spotting scope. |
The MLR are great Reticles, they are based on the MIL System like the Mil-Dots. The Lines are broking down into 1/2mils and on the last mil it is broking down into 1/4mils. The MLR is a great reticle!  Mike @ CSGW www.csgunworks.com [email protected] Here’s some testimonials about CS GunWorks What do YOU have to say about CS GunWorks What Do You Think Of Cs Gunworks? FEEDBACK about CSGUNWORKS.com |
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YES, PERHAPS, IT IS A GREAT RETICLE. OR PERHAPS IT IS A RELIC OF INSTITIONAL INERTIA, FURTHER PROOF OF THE MILITARY'S RESISTANCE TO CHANGE. WHO AMONG US MERE MORTALS CAN DO: YARDS DIVIDED BY MILS, TIMES 1000 ... FRACTIONS DIVIDED BY FRACTIONS, TIMES 1000 ... ... IN THEIR HEADS??? NOW, WITH THE NP-R1 OR THE NP-R2 RETICLE, THE MATH IS MUCH SIMPLER: INCHES DIVIDED BY MINUTES, TIMES 100 I WENT TO ALABAMA PUBLIC SCHOOLS, AND I CAN DO THIS IN MY HEAD. AT THE '97 SHOT SHOW, I SHOWED THE THEN NEW NP-R2 RETICLE TO THE FORMER HEAD OF THE NAVY SEAL'S SNIPER SCHOOL. HE WAS QUICK TO ADMIT IT WAS MUCH SIMPLER AND POTENTIALLY MORE ACCURATE INSIDE 1000 YARDS. THEN HE WENT ON TO SAY "... BUT, I'D HAVE TO GIVE UP ALL OF MY MIL-DOT GOUGE!" GET THE PICTURE? GOOD SHOOTING, WES GRANT MSTN.BIZ |
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Unless your a bench rest guy with a 6mm or 300wm etc...15 is all you need on a M40A3 sniper rifle...so a 16" that barely makes a ting on steel at 600yards.... I had a NXS 3-15x on my SPR and it looked ridiculous...put more weight on the rifle. Got a 2-8 and and put it on my AR10. Buy whatever you want but if you are only shooting 300yards.... just get a 1-4x. I was doing rapid fire hits at 400yards with 4x with SS109 and hits everytime...and I mean rapid, |
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Bigant Nice Setup! Mike @ CSGW www.csgunworks.com [email protected] Here’s some testimonials about CS GunWorks What do YOU have to say about CS GunWorks What Do You Think Of Cs Gunworks? FEEDBACK about CSGUNWORKS.com |
In the NF manual: Formula: Size in Inches and Divide it by the MOA Lines x 100 = Distance in yards Example: 6moa / 18in = 3 x 100 = 300yds. I wish it was that simple but it is not, if the reticles were designed in inches then it would be. Because the NP-R1 and NP-R2 are in MOA we have to convert it to get a truly accurate reading. Ranging is a hard enough game with out starting off handicapped. Accurate formula 6moa x 1.047 = 6.282 / 18 = 2.865 x 100 = 287yds The 13yds difference is not a big deal. When you get further and further out it makes a difference. Example: 2moa / 18in = 9 x 100 = 900yds 2 x 1.047 = 2.094 / 18 = 8.59 x 100 = 860yds This is a 40yds difference equaling a miss for calibers like a 308. Wes I cannot do inches divided by minutes in my head. As you can see “MUCH SIMPLER AND POTENTIALLY MORE ACCURATE INSIDE 1000 YARDS” is not 100% true unless you do the 1.047. The Mils system: There are 3 formulas I know of and they all will give you the same number. 1. Object in yards X 1000 divided by Mils = Distance in YDS 2. Size in inches X 27.8 divided by Mils = Distance in YDS 3. Size in centimeters divided by mils x 10 = Distance in Meters If you know your target size in Centimeters we can do a formula like the MOA one also but accurately. I will use 46cm because it is close to the 18” I used above. (46cm = 18.11”) 1mil / 46cm = 46 x 10 = 460m (this I can do in my head) 18.11” x 27.8 = 503.45 / 1mil = 503yds If you convert it to meters you get 503 x 0.9144 = 459.9yds like we got above. As you can see the metric system is like the quick MOA system but more accurate. The draw back is you need to know your target in centimeters. Another cool think about MIL Second Focal Plane Reticle you can make them read MOA or Inch at hundred yards. You can't make an MOA reticle read inch or Mils. If you would like to know how feel fee to call, PM, or e-mail me. With this said I still think MOA reticles are great. MOA and Mil have + and – whatever one you get will do the job just fine. Mike @ CSGW www.csgunworks.com [email protected] Here’s some testimonials about CS GunWorks What do YOU have to say about CS GunWorks What Do You Think Of Cs Gunworks? FEEDBACK about CSGUNWORKS.com |
| They both have their place in the scope world but it would be hard to argue that the Metric isn't more accurate than the MOA. I agree that the MOA system is much easier to pickup, learn, and understand for Americans who are use to our systems of measurements but larger measurements = coarser estimations at distance as Mike explained. It may not make a huge difference up close but for long range bench shooting Metric is THE way to go. |
Mike, I have to go with Wes on this one; my brain just seems to work the math better with MOA versus mil-rads, particularly with MOA turrets. For those with different training, YMMV. I agree the quick moa formula is simple and for short range it will work just fine. My point was for an accurate reading you will need to use the true size of moa (1.047”). If you want to be good at ranging you need to be as accurate as possible. Even with a Mil system at great distances like 800yds and out you need to do your best to break it down to the 10th of a Mil. Mike @ CSGW www.csgunworks.com [email protected] Here’s some testimonials about CS GunWorks What do YOU have to say about CS GunWorks What Do You Think Of Cs Gunworks? FEEDBACK about CSGUNWORKS.com |
| A mil-rad is .057296 degrees of a circle, and an MOA is .0166667 degrees. Therefore, a 0.5 mil-rad scale has 14% greater resolution than a 2 MOA; of course, that also means the 1 MOA scale has 70% more than the 0.5 mil-rad. The key is judging the target size and environment either way, and the math should be whatever one is most comfortable with. |
I 100% agree. Mike @ CSGW www.csgunworks.com [email protected] Here’s some testimonials about CS GunWorks What do YOU have to say about CS GunWorks What Do You Think Of Cs Gunworks? FEEDBACK about CSGUNWORKS.com |
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LET ME BEGIN BY SAYING I AM NOT DISAGREEING WITH ANYONE'S MATH. THERE ARE SOME GOOD NUMBERS HERE. BUT, LET'S DO KEEP IN MIND THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT RANGING OFF A TARGET THAT TYPICALLY CANNOT BE MEASURED TO FIVE SIGNIFICANT DIGITS, WITH A DEVICE THAT IN THE BEST HANDS CANNOT ACCURATELY MEASURE BEYOND TWO SIGNIFICANT DIGITS. ADD TO THAT THE TARGET MAY BE MOVING, AND MIGHT ONLY VISIBLE FOR A VERY SHORT PERIOD OF TIME. NOW, IF THE TARGET PULLS UP TO A 30.000" STOP SIGN IN HIS ESCALADE SHOD WITH 22.000" WHEELS, YOU MIGHT HAVE SOME BASIS FOR YOUR MORE COMPLICATED FORMULAE, ASSUMING YOU CAN FIGURE IT ALL OUT BEFORE HE ROLLS AWAY. I'LL STICK WITH INCHES DIVIDED BY MINUTES, TIMES 100. WES GRANT MSTN.BIZ |
IT'S A GREAT LITTLE SCOPE, NO DOUBT. GOOD SHOOTING, WES GRANT MSTN.BIZ |
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I'll toss in a plug for the low power variable NXS model(s). Assuming the AR is a defense weapon & not a range gun, I would think speed is the name of the game. A 2.5X+ scope would deter that objective, at least from my perspective. Can't say enough good things about the 1-4NXS. I own one. Love it. Swapped out the FC-2 reticule for a NP-1 and couldn't be happier. Both are great choices, but I wanted a little more precision than the FC-2 would allow. The FC-2 is plenty accurate, but you need the right target to shoot at. I find the horizontal bars and vertical post to be plenty prominent to keep the scope fast. By fast I mean acquiring a target while moving around with your heartrate up. Bottom line, that 1X magnification is supreme. It's no red dot, but if you're looking for true 1X with variable power to 4X, in a rugged package, this is it. Plus, I've said this before, if you can't hit a threat at 4X, you need to move closer. It's an AR15, not a 308. Alright, sorry to detract from the OP's intent of the thread, just wanted to touch on the 1-4 since this thread covers everything else!!! Back to the high power Nightforce show!  One thing is for certain, Nightforce makes one helluva scope. |
Again there is nothing wrong with the Quick MOA method at short-range or at a location you do not have a range card for. My point is at greater ranges Size in Inches and Divide it by the MOA Lines x 100 = Distance in yards is not accurate enough and you will need the 1.047” to get the most accurate read. I the situation above (target of opportunity) you may not even have time to do quick MOA ranging. For the sake of the conversation let say we have time to range. We take the sign 30” / 10mo = 3 x 100 = 300yds we go to are 300 yard hold over point and press and get a solid hit. If we do this past 600yds will not get a hit especially if we are using a 308. Again there is nothing wrong with quick MOA method for short-range, targets of opportunity, and for average shooters this will be just fine. Military Snipers and some LE Snipers have a Data Books and in that date book they will have a known size chart of items (example Stop Sign, hit of vehicles, doors, and other items he may have measured) they will also have Field Sketch or an Obtaining Range Card. The Sniper will use this card for a specific location (shooting point) on this card he will range stationary objects and mark them down with the distance. Now when the target arrives anywhere on the grid the sniper will be ready for the target at any given distance. This method would be ideal for the Escalade situation or soft target of unknown size. Mike @ CSGW www.csgunworks.com [email protected] Here’s some testimonials about CS GunWorks What do YOU have to say about CS GunWorks What Do You Think Of Cs Gunworks? FEEDBACK about CSGUNWORKS.com |
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The 1-4x24 and the 2.5-10x24 are great scopes and will do the job for most AR15 shooters. Mike @ CSGW www.csgunworks.com [email protected] Here’s some testimonials about CS GunWorks What do YOU have to say about CS GunWorks What Do You Think Of Cs Gunworks? FEEDBACK about CSGUNWORKS.com |
EXCELLENT - WE'RE ALL IN COMPLETE AGREEMENT. GOOD SHOOTING, WES GRANT MSTN.BIZ |
+1--Wes had a lot of good advice when I bought my NF from him. i agree with the previous posts about that being WAY too much scope. I would get the 2.5x10--Oh, yeah-I did. it was the right choice...for me. Good luck- |
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