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Posted: 4/2/2006 3:40:51 PM EDT
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I need some help. First off... YES, i know there is an Optics forum... BUT... ALL the GOOD threads about optics are in the archive & I can't get to them. I only have ONE AR, and I want to get an Optic for it. This will be used on my 16" HBAR Carbine, Larue FF ras, magpul stock. This is my: general purpose, plinking, home defense, SHTF, Zombie, Hurricane Aftermath, social unrest Weapon. (it is the only rifle i own... so it HAS to be) Basically, it will have to do EVERYTHING. I have narrowed it to either: #1 Aimpoint 2moa M3, & Larue Mount. #2 TA-11 ACOG, "donut of death" & Larue Mount so... which one & why. Thank you |
Every Weekend. I have access to a LARGE amount of private land & I have set up my own training area. Steel targets, regular paper targets, variable ranges, day, night, hot, cold, rain, snow, I practice with the carbine, pistol & shotgun. left hand, right hand, transition from carbine to handgun.... everything. I would say that I have 3 guns.... & i 
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I know its overused, but I would get both if I could. ek makes good points, but the ACOG with 4 x 32 magnification, is awesome for the intermediate distance shot (to 300m) But if its only one, I would go ACOG. I use the TA31 (donut),  but my next one will be the TA31-RCO M4 seen below: 
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| We used ELCANs on our machine guns in the 101st, and they are a by far the least durable of the sights we used. We had a few ACOGs (never used one) but they got good reviews, I used an Aimpoint and reccomend one. But ELCANs always broke, as in the rubberized cover came loose and the lighted reticle never worked. |
+1 Aimpoint will do you fine out to real 5.56 combat distances, and even with BAC I dislike the ACOG for sub-50m distances, which tend to be likely engagement ranges. |
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For what I expect my M4gery to do, the Aimpoint made the most sense. Fast target acquisition at ranges of 100M or less. Simple and fast, and about $300.00 less than the ACOG. I'd rather spend that money on ammo. Beyond that, out to 500M Ill use my irons like the Corps taught me. |
Hey, it is your business and your money; but if I were about to drop $400-500 to $800-900 on an optic and mount, I would think that $20 to access the archives and see years of first hand discussion of this topic would be a pretty good deal. The main question is which do you need more: see better or shoot faster? If it is #1 then the ACOG is the way to go. If it is #2 then the Aimpoint dominates. |
+1 I always laugh when I see things like "Planning to drop $1500 on gas piston upper, but I don't have archive access, are they any good?" It's $25 people, and a heck of a lot more useful than extended feed ramps. |
If you plan on doing serious training, the ACOG will work for closer in engagements, and obviously is superior for longer distances. If you feel you are more apt to use it within 200 yards most of the time, I would opt for an Aimpoint (Eotech in my case). Joining up for the team function is nice if you end up with an extra $25 or so, but I wouldn't throw away the M4 feedramps quite yet. Especially if you shoot more than ball ammo. |
the happy medium |
I "trained" myself to use a 3X compact ACOG last week. I spent all day yesterday "being trained" by a professional and I remeved the ACOG and put my Eotech back on half way through the second drill. By myself, I thought I was doing fine, but with someone yelling "THREAT" and a shooter next to me, it was obvious the ACOG was wrong for me. |
| You could get an aimpoint of eotech and then add the aimpoint 3x magnifier. There is a special mount that it can sit in that allows you to immediately flip it off to the side to use just the aimpoint. Sounds like it would be the best of both worlds for the money. |
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Well, my TA-45 with amber triangle reticle mounted on my 6520 (my back-up carbine) beat out a bunch of other optics in a timed "multiple targets at ~5 yards" speed drill yesterday, including a new Tripower, an Aimpoint, and Eotechs. That said, I still have come to like the Aimpoint better, especially when shooting on the move, from support shoulder, and from awkward positions. Get the Aimpoint. Some pics from yesterday |
I'll bet it was the Indian not the arrow. .What was your time with the Compact ACOG vs an Aimpoint? I know my times were always faster when I run with my EOTech compared to when I ran my Compact ACOG (TA50-2). And the TA50-2 was almost half a pound lighter... |
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The acog is a better general purpose optic. It fills more roles. The only area the aimpoint beats it is shooting under 25 yards. If you learn to use the BAC method with the acog, it works very well at shorter distances. Plus, for SHTF situations, it does not require a battery. I would suggest the TA31DOC in the 4x32 model, or the TA11F in the 3.5x35 with the longer eye relief. That being said, all of the acogs are incredible, and you would not be disappointed with any of them. |
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Aimpoints: A: Uses: (0-100 Yards) 1. One of the best CQB (Close Quarters) sight available due to rapid target acquisition. 2. Good all purpose Military/Law Enforcement sight. Limited only by 1X magnification. 3. Excellent for hunting where speed is desired over magnification. B: Pro’s: 1. Generally very rugged. 2. Unlimited eye relief. 3. Parallax free (Dot does not need to be centered in the scope.). C: Con’s: 1. Uses batteries. (Although some have a battery life of 50,000 hrs.). 2. Can fail. ACOG's A: Uses: (50-300 Yards) 1. Good CQB scope with enough practice. Best when used in open areas where magnification can be used. 2. Best all purpose Military scope. 3. Excellent for hunting where speed and magnification is desired. B: Pro’s: 1. Generally very rugged. 2. No batteries. 3. Fixed magnification for simplicity. 4. Parallax free (Dot does not need to be centered in the scope.). C: Con’s: 1. B.A.C. requires practice. 2. Can fail. 3. Expensive. 4. Short eye relief. |
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I actually did write down all the times for each shooter so we could compare data. I have it at home. I'll IM you later. One of these days I'll have to take both of my carbines (TA45 and Aimpoint equipped) out and compare them directly. |
I shoot mostly at the range and started with an ACOG TA01 NSN, then came the Docter Then came the EOTech  So I just bought two new lowers (uppers haven't been ordered yet), because I need a gun for each optic, and I am thinking an aimpoint will be around the corner Apparently that is the AR15.com way! |
Well I think he's a little conservative on the Aimpoint's max distance. I don't like the Aimpoint, for multiple reasons, but I'm fairly certain that it can be used at least 2-3x his projections, especially with the 2MOA reticle. I prefer the EOTech and have used it past 500m on a 14.5 barrel. I wasn't able to be precise, but it was about Min-O-Man. I have used ACOGs a little bit, and received my first today. Also a TA50 like Forest, but in red. In the 15 or so min I've played with it, I've already grown much more accustomed to the BAC. I'm sure that at first I won't be nearly as fast as with my EOTech up close for the obvious reasons, but with time and practice I'm sure I can get pretty quick with it. I think my planned use of the ACOG is about as good a happy medium as can be achieved if limited to only ONE rifle. I put an LMT 14.5 M4 barrel on a C7 receiver. The TA50R-2 is mounted on the carry handle. The BAC ACOGs are quite fast (though admittedly not usually as fast as Aimpoint/EOTech) and have ample magnification for most SHTF uses. So, I have a pretty quick and accurate scope letting me take advantage of 3x magnification, and excluding the need for batts. If the scope fails or if I need to be really quick, I have my irons just below the ACOG...at least that was the idea behind things (even though it's not my only AR  ). Only time will tell though if the setup is actually effective, or better yet, if I can become proficient using this setup. If not, another ACOG will show up on the EE .
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VERY conservative. 1x scopes have the same range as iron sight - IMHO the EOTech is a bit better due to the size of it's 1 moa dot (which is smaller than the front sight). I'd also argue the 'parallax free' of the ACOG. The scopes with BDC are Parallax free along the vertical axis - they are NOT parallax free along the horizontal axis. |
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The Aimpoint and an EoTech are in the same game but the ACOGS are a different league of their own. I like Aimpont and EoTech but out of the 2 I prefer EoTech for most applications. The ACOGS are sight is just an outstanding sight all the way around. ELCAN is coming out with a new sight that looks outstanding also and I’m very excited to be getting some in stock soon. What every you get I’m sure you will love it you are look at some of the best optics on the market for an AR platform. Aimpoint  EoTech  ACOG  Mike @ CSGW www.csgunworks.com [email protected] Here’s some testimonials about CS GunWorks for AR15 Board What do YOU have to say about CS GunWorks |
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To JosephR: I don't know what you have against me, but that is your problem. This is the second time you have personally attacked me and I don't appreciate it. I gave my honest opinion and if you disagree with it, all you have to do is give your opinion and move on. Saying that I am full of shit and making it sound like I am in college and doing some kind of project is uncalled for. I don't know you and you don't know me. We are all here to help each other out with questions. And since you want to call me out like you did, here is where I work. I apologize to anyone that I have offended or upset. This is between me and JosephR, which was started in a previous post about the ARMS SIR System. He obviously has a problem with me and there is nothing I can do about it. And I respect everyone's opinions about the range of an EOTech and Aimpoints. IMHO they are best used from 0-100 yards. You can definitely use them for further distances, but If I were to shoot consistantly out further then I would get something else. |
+1 If I am shooting for speed and COM hits from 0-150 yds I want my Aimpoint on my carbine. If I am on the 300 yard range, I will take the DMR with an 4X Acog or other magnified optic. My .02. For an all around package for one rifle, its hard to beat the TA01 with the Dr. |
Edwin907, I am stealing your pic as it is better than mine. I have spent a lot of time behind both. And just like a lot of you, I feel much more comfortable behind an Aimpoint for short range engagements. And with the addition of a Quick Flip and 3x, you can still get the magnification needed for longer range work. Talon Arms.com |
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