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Posted: 11/28/2004 5:00:21 PM EDT
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I had an amber one. For those who had /has both how is the red compared to the amber(brightness,washout). then somebody sell me a triangle reticle 
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Disclaimer: Not a red reticle owner or user. With that being said, I do not have practical washout issues with my TA50-6 (amber dot). For what it's worth, I hail from Southern California's High Desert region and do the majority of my shooting in bright conditions. -Jim |
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Although the amber is brighter the red catches my eye better, also I think a 3x in red may be as bright as the amber because I noticed the same thing of the amber 1.5 I looked at when I got the 3x. When wash out occurs you get a solid duplex reticle and the only time wash out occurs is indoors looking from dark to light areas like going accross a lighted wall or as you saw a door. With the other compacts I am not sure what happens if wash out occurs. Do they give you a solid black dot or triangle or nothing at all? |
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The basic problem with an ACOG isn't when the reticle washes out completely and turns black, it is when there is just enough illumination to match the background lighting well (good example in the first pic STLRN posted). I've found that red provides better contrast in those situations than amber. The amber tends to blend in to most lighting sources better than the red. Imagine that same pic lit with amber instead of red and you can get an idea of what I am talking about. You can also see the same thing with the TA01NSN if you take it out around dusk or dawn. There will be a small window where the tritium lights the crosshairs just enough that they kind of disappear or grey out. Of course all of this is highly dependent on eyes too... some people have no trouble seeing amber in the same conditions where I can't. I can only guess it comes down to genetics. |
Most of the time I get a black triangle (I have an amber 3x triangle TA50-2). However I've had cases when using a weapon mounted light in the 65 lumen range and the target was just the right reflectivity that I had complete washout. The reticule was illuminated a bit and with the backsplash off the target it washed out the reticule. The targets were either a light brown cardboard (or Gunsite brown camo target) or reflective silver insulation. In all the cases of washout I was at very close range and could hit the target either by 'feel' (knowing I mounted the weapon right) or by centering the target in the middle of the scope (the range was so close a human sized torso just about filled the field of view). |
BR, Your post gave me an idea. I wonder if amber tends to 'wash out' easier than the red is due to the fact the weapon lights are incandecent (and the light is more a yellowish). I wonder if one were to use a LED based light if the more bluish light would help with contrast? I think I will try this out as I happen to have a 60 lumen LED light at my disposal. |
Unless you are red/green/brown color blind - then amber burns bright. Question for those that know - how much slower is a 2x than an Aimpoint at 25 yrds or less? Also - there was a link somewhere that showed the size of the retical at various distances - anyone have that? TIA |
I have never timed myself, but I don't think is really slower if you kind train yourself to not use the BAC transition to the magnified view. Basically if you shoot while the weapon is moving all you see is the an illuminated aiming point and not a magnified view. That transition is what slows you down. Trijicon's PDF on the compact ACOG list the reticle sizes as the following TRIANGLE DOT CROSSHAIR 24mm 8,0 MOA 6.0 MOA 38 MOA 20mm 9.2 MOA 6.9 MOA 47.9 MOA 16mm 12.1 MOA 6.1 MOA 63.1 MOA |
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Ok when I got home I ran an experiment. I picked up one of my carbines and attached my TA50-2 (Compact ACOG 3x, Triangular Amber reticule). I then grabbed 3 lights, my 120 lumen Surefire 650-2/P61, my 65 lumen Surefire G2/P60, and my Elektrolumens 60 lumen LED light. I found 2 targets that would wash the reticule out; a smooth strip of silver tape that joined two insulation panels (that were textured silver), and a brown shopping bag. First the silver strip: at 8 paces the reticule would washout with either the 120 or 65 lumen incandecent lamp. With the 60 Lumen LED lamp however the reticule was sharp and a very noticable amber. I had to walk to within 3 paces of the strip till the 65 lumen incandecent lamp became noticable (it went black). The 120 lumen lamp cause the reticule to go black a bit earlier (but not much). Next the brown bag at 8 paces. On this target the 120 lumen lamp always provided a black reticule - very noticable. The 65 lumen lamp would washout occasionally, the 60 lumen LED lamp was surprisingly also washed out - not to the degree as the incandecent lamp but the amber reticule was practically unusable. At 4-5 paces the reticules for the 65 & 60 lumen lights were more noticable. One interesting tidbit: I moved back to 11 pace (the max distance for this setup). Against the brown bag the LED lamp now worked fine - the amber reticule was easy to see; but the 65 lumen incandecent would have issues depending on the part being targeted(the bag's color was not consistant). Also the reticule had more issues if it was pointing directly at the hot spot versus the corona (no surprise there). For example at 8 paces if the target was in the corona the reticule was easy to see with the LED light; but in the hot spot (where the target should be) the reticule was much more difficult. From my testing it would seem LED lights can make a positive difference under some circumstances with the amber reticules. But it's not just light color - brightness also makes a difference (again no surprises there). But I should note - if the reticule can't be seen you are close enough that it doesn't matter for a COM shot. |
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