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Posted: 1/10/2004 10:37:06 AM EDT
| which in general do you perfer? and why? |
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M1...I like more precise adjustments.... Although I understand the M3 BDc works very well with the bullets the dials are designed for it still comes down to 1/2 MOA adjustments per click. I am often finding myself wanting my M3LR 3.5-10 Illuminated back....... Then I rememeber that I sold it to buy an M1LR 4.5-14x50 Mildot and don't really look back. |
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It depends on the kind of shooting you're planning on doing. If it's pure bench rest/known distance/got-lots-of-time type stuff, then the M1 is great! It's incredibly precise, allowing you dial in the kind of groups that will piss off your friends for years to come. OTOH, if you're looking at doing some sniper-style "dope it, dial it, dump it" shooting, especially if there'll be a mix of unknown distance shots from the same shooting position, then you'll probably find the M3 much more to your liking. As said above it's fast and you can't lose track of where you are on the turret. I own both a "target turret" Leupold and an M3, the M3 replaced the former on my PSS because during a competition I completely lost track of my "clickology" and I decided I needed a cleaner, neater solution. The former scope now does part-time duty on my Bushmaster when I convert it to SPR mode; I've memorized how many mils to hold over for various ranges so I don't touch the turret any more. Regarding the "BDC": the M3 doesn't have any kind of cam; the turret is marked according to the clicks for that particular round's ballistics. If your rifle isn't tuned to that specific pattern (say, a shorter barrel), you have several choices: 1) Take a piece of tape, wrap it around the turrent, and mark off your own ranges. Do it "dirty" the first time, then go home and transfer the markings to a new piece of tape in indelible ink. Don't forget to mark a reference point so you'll put it on where the first one came off. [;)] 2) I can't remember their names at present, but there are a couple of vendors who do custom laser-etched turrets. You send them your rifle's ballistics and they'll generate a precise turret for your scope. Definitely a bit more advanced than the tape thing. heh Hope this helps! |
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Spartan: I did a Google on "Custom Leupold M3 Turret" and got a couple of hits, including an article from Sniper Country ([url]http://www.snipercountry.com/hottips/ScopeLeupold_M3BDC.asp[/url]. It appears to be fairly recent. Custom Turrets: [url=http://www.armament.com/]Armament Technologies[/url] Kenton Industries [url]www.kentonindustries.com[/url] (805) 531-1018 [email protected] Turret Labels: Turret Tagz (859) 231-3813 [i]They offer white or florescent tape covers for the turrets[/i]. P.S. Kenton Industries is definitely a "Go". I just checked their website. |
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Quoted: It depends on the kind of shooting you're planning on doing. If it's pure bench rest/known distance/got-lots-of-time type stuff, then the M1 is great! It's incredibly precise, allowing you dial in the kind of groups that will piss off your friends for years to come. OTOH, if you're looking at doing some sniper-style "dope it, dial it, dump it" shooting, especially if there'll be a mix of unknown distance shots from the same shooting position, then you'll probably find the M3 much more to your liking. As said above it's fast and you can't lose track of where you are on the turret. Rooto hit the nail on the head. I've got both and they are wonderful. If you are thinking of a mil-dot, check out [url=http://mysite.elixirlabs.com/index.php?uid=5465&page=1793]Premier Reticles[/url]. I don't think that 1st plane reticles are available direct from Leupold, only through Premier. And Premier's mil-dot reticle is etched glass, not wire. That fact alone makes it much better IMO. From their site: GEN 2 MIL-DOT - This Premier innovation features a First Focal Plane reticle which allows mil spacing to remain constant throughout the power range of the variable Leupold Vari X-III scopes. Answering to persistent requests from various military and law enforcement operators, we have redesigned the mil-dot to include hash marks between dots to provide 1/2 mil gradients which allows much more accurate range estimating. This also gives a more precise aiming point when using the mil-dot for quick hold-overs. 1/2 mil gradients are .15 mil in length. Dots have been resized to be exactly 2/10 mil round in diameter. This allows mils to be broken into 1/10 mil increments. Hash marks on posts, 2 mils in length, are placed in 5 mil increments and extend entirely to the edge of the field of view. This feature can be utilized when ranging larger objects at long distance. For low light considerations, all lines and hash marks are 1/4 moa for maximum visibility. |
| I stick with the M1 target turrets because I occasionally move scopes between my rifles and play around with different loads. The M3 is dialed in for only a few standard calibers and loads and customized cams would be needed for everything else. The M1 setup is just more flexible and accurate for me for now. |
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I like the M1 only from the stand point that I do a lot of 1000yrd with my .308win. It's a lot more precise and I don't find it difficult to keep track of rotations. With a good range card, it's easy to get from your last known range adjustment to the next. Plus, I reload so ballistics are always changing. With the M3 at that distance 1 click in elevation is +/- 10". With the M1 1 click in elevation is +/- 2.5". And I feel it makes a difference when your doping the wind as well. |
| I am using a M3 6x42mm Mk4 to go with my .308 Remington. It has an 18" barrel at the moment, but it is going down to 16" shortly. A M3 Mk4 with Kenton knobs is going to be my best choice due to the ballistics. The .308 is going to shoot about like a heavy, high performance 30-30 out of the 16" barrel. It will be close to a 20-24" barrel in the 100-200yd range, but past that I am going to need quite a bit of elevation if I take any shots. Even at 500yd it is going to hit like a very hot 10mm at the muzzle. |
| well with your guys help ive made up my mind, ive decided to go with the premier reticles mil dot gen 2 on a varx m3 LR. and down the road when i can get a log of my shots, i think im gonna go with a custom turret from denton, thanks a lot for the helpful insight as this is my first scope anywhere near this price range. |
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