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Posted: 10/17/2003 1:22:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/17/2003 1:46:10 PM EDT by Face_N_The_Crowd]
Looking to set up a carbine for 0 - 200 w/ emphasis on 0 - 100 yrds. I am looking for the fastest optic. I would also like to know the pros and cons of each.

Compact ACOG - is it too bulky in comparision? It does weigh 1.5 oz less than an Aimpoint, and only 1/2 of what a AA EOTech does. The cost seems to be about $750.00 - steep.

EOTech - the 1MOA dot inside of the 65 MOA circle - sounds like a great way to not see the dot and then drop a few shots out of the "A" zone b/c it would be like slop shooting with the 65 MOA circle - true? Weight - kind of a pig 11 oz. Cost is like $300.00 - good.

Aimpoint - is this the dick for dolly? What are the downsides that I am not seeing? What is the FOV - they do not list it. Weight is like 7 oz. Cost is like $390.00

Thanx
Link Posted: 10/17/2003 1:42:02 PM EDT
All of them are great sights. I have both the Compact ACOG and EO Tech and used the Aimpoint. The compact ACOG is not too bulky, its rather light and never needs batteries or needs to be turned on. It can work from contact to 500M no problem. Its issues are is short eye relief, and your head has to be in proper position to see the reticule. Its also not as fast at CQB distances (0-15 yards). Aimpoint - very fast up close, longest longest battery life, simple clean screen, plenty of mounting options. Drawbacks are the possiblity of it rotating in the mount, batteries are not as common (compared to AA), and the 4moa dot may not be as precise as you want at 200y (depends on the target and your requirement for accuracy. For self defense to 200M the 4moa dot is perfectly fine, but its a bit large for 4 legged critters) EO Tech - mount is built in, supposedly the fastest at CQB (ring on COM then fire), and more precise at longer ranges. Reticule is the brightest of the 3, and you can use it with AA batteries (the most common) including NiMH rechargables. I never dropped a shot out of the A zone due to the EO Tech's reticle, and I shot some pretty fine head shot groups with that dot. What type of shooting are you planning on? Plinking, Occasional Varmint blasting? Defense? I like the 3x Compact ACOG for a general outdoor optic. I'll give up that bit of 'up close' speed to gain the clarity at range and the precision of the triangle reticule. If most of the shooting is going to be done up close (defense) especially CQB/inside a building then go with the Aimpoint or EO Tech. I like the EO Tech because of the AA battery and it uses rechargables (I never worry about batteries) - the fact its reticule can be made brighter than the Aimpoint is a plus if you're using a 125 lumen light indoors (and have very light walls).
Link Posted: 10/17/2003 1:51:31 PM EDT
[b]What type of shooting are you planning on? Plinking, Occasional Varmint blasting? Defense? [/b] 3 gun and carbine matches would be the primary, defensive - secondary. EOTech has a built in advantage in that if the match will not allow me to run an optic and stay in limited I can pull and thanx to co-witness it is - as I understand it - zero change in my mount (true?).
Link Posted: 10/17/2003 1:55:16 PM EDT
My experience: Compact ACOG pros: BAC, magnification, built like a rock, no electronics to fail, automatically adjusts brightness based on ambient light cons: limited eye relief and head position. Steeper learning curve to use to its full potential. Automatically adjusts brightness based on ambient light EOtech pros: very, very fast - fastest of all for me. Good field of view, mount included in price cons: mount not terrific and built in mount limits options considerably, parallax at extreme left and right edges of sight, grainy reticle and higher power consumption, controls not great compared to Aimpoint Aimpoint: pros: also very fast, battery life so long that it might as well not be an issue, 4MOA dot easy to pick up, more rugged than EOtech IMO (debateable though), simple to use, good controls cons: pay extra for the mount, field of view slightly limited compared to EOtech, 4 MOA dot can obscure small/partial targets at distance For the parameters you've listed, I'd go with Aimpoint, Compact ACOG w/red triangle and then EOtech if I had to make the choice today.
Link Posted: 10/17/2003 3:13:13 PM EDT
How about the ATN Digital Ultra Sight? Anybody ever use one?
Link Posted: 10/17/2003 3:24:57 PM EDT
Based on your listed needs.........Eotech.
Link Posted: 10/17/2003 7:07:18 PM EDT
Never played with an ACOG but I hear they are very nice. I've used Aimpoints and EoTechs and like the EoTech better. Make sure to get the ARMS #40 BUIS to go with it.
Link Posted: 10/17/2003 8:03:02 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Face_N_The_Crowd: EOTech has a built in advantage in that if the match will not allow me to run an optic and stay in limited I can pull and thanx to co-witness it is - as I understand it - zero change in my mount (true?).
View Quote
That is not an EOTech advantage. All three of those optics have mounts will allow the same. capability. If your 3 gun & carbine matches allow magnified optics I'd say the Compact ACOG would be the best bet. They did very well where I competed. However, as was pointed out - there is more of a learning curve with them, and the BAC only works if you have binocular vision.
Link Posted: 10/17/2003 8:06:40 PM EDT
Originally Posted By djc119: How about the ATN Digital Ultra Sight? Anybody ever use one?
View Quote
I'd rate that as third tier (second tier at best). It doesn't compare to the Aimpoint or EO Tech - its not going for the same market.
Link Posted: 10/17/2003 9:10:14 PM EDT
I've had all three, and for the ranges you are talking about I would go with the Aimpoint. The Eotech is also good, but I don't like the controls or the "mount."
Link Posted: 10/18/2003 6:19:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/18/2003 6:21:10 AM EDT by JTinIN]
Is any of your match shooting actually closer than 20 yards (many of the courses I have seen limit the very close range targets)? Thus if you are actually looking at a 20 to 100 match rifle with some 200+ yard shooting and still have self defense inside of 20 yards ... then the ACOG starts to get very interesting (might actually be the design statement). Otherwise for under 100 yards to the muzzle, if it was me, would try both the Aimpoint and Eotech for a few months each (which is what friends are for ... to trade optics) and decide for yourself ... in any case either one is not a bad choice ... just the Aimpoint is better [;)]
Link Posted: 10/18/2003 6:50:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/22/2003 1:17:00 PM EDT by Hokie]
LOL!!! Another ACOG/EoTech/Aimpoint thread! Sweet! I'm in! I've owned all three. They're all incredible assets to any carbine. EoTech- No faster room to room optic in my opinion. All that rugged/battery crap people toss in is unnecessary. Those batteries will last you more than you need, and it's as rugged as you'll ever need it to be. The 65 MOA circle is great for 'oh shit what's over there!' type shooting. The 1MOA dot makes it's mark very well at 100 even 200 yards. I love the EoTech. But an Aimpoint CompM2 sits on my carbine now. I forever been a fan of iron sights. I think AR carbines are 0-200 yard lightwieght low recoiling guns made for fast accurate shooting with efficient ballistics. The way I look at it, the red dot enhances an already perfect system. I wouldn't want magnification on my carbines. Edited to say...I know own a TA31 and now I think all other optics are garbage. Viva la Trijicon!
Link Posted: 10/18/2003 10:52:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/18/2003 10:54:23 AM EDT by Boom_Stick]
Though I've never owned any of these optics I've handled quite a few and read a lot in the optics forum. Based on all my research, I just purchased an Aimpoint the other day and it is currently in the mail. I chose it because of its durability, battery life and the fact that the military uses it. Sure the Military uses the eotech, but because of it's limitations (mounts, battery life) it's still in limited use compared to the aimpoint. With all the eotechs I've looked through I've noticed it is mounted very low to the receiver. Additionally this makes co-witness a pain cause I like my irons in the lower 1/3 of the glass. Every picture I've seen of the eotech shows the BUIS and the reticule competing for the same view space through the glass.
Link Posted: 10/19/2003 9:03:49 AM EDT
I own and have used an Aimpoint M2 with the ARMS#68 mount/spacer in several differnet carbine classes. I like the simple dot reticle as opposed to the triangles or larger type reticle I have seen on other sites like the reflex. As for the site turning in the mount, you need to blue loc-tite the entire mounting system, but I have done this on all of my optic mounts (precision rifle, carbine etc). I have used the Trijicon reflex at the range (not in classes) and again I found it harder to make precise shots with the reticle (like an eyball shot at 25 yards), but these sites are not really built for that they are built for speed and 4+MOA type accuracy. I do prefer the AA battery option though as the Aimpoint as others have pointed out uses a somewhat unique battery. I do like the lens covers provided with the Aimpoint. I have been in a coule of monsoon's here in Arizona where it was nice to have the lens covers. I did not notice any weight difference btween the Reflex and the Aimpoint. Remember that one persons pro is another persons con.
Link Posted: 11/3/2003 7:26:18 AM EDT
For my money, it's the EOTech. Having shot EOTech, Aimpoint, and various ACOGs, I definitely like the features of the EOTech for the money. As for speed, consider this - I have an EOTech mounted up on top of a .22 caliber Buckmark Rifle. I can regularly break 4 or 5 out of 10 clay targets thrown from a spring-loaded thrower, and could probably do better with practice. If this isn't a testament to the speed of the EOTech recticle, I don't know what is. And before you discount my story as BS, try it. Just make sure that you have an appropriate range situation that permits safely shooting into the air with a rifle - NOT something you should do at most ranges.
Link Posted: 11/3/2003 10:11:35 AM EDT
Give into the fact that eventually you're going to own all of them....even if it means your children go hungry. All have their pro's and con's. You just have to decide which one is suited to the type of shooting you plan on doing.....for now [;)] The cool thing about buying quality optics is, that even if you dont like them, you can sell them here on the EE and not take too much of a loss.
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