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Posted: 9/16/2003 4:46:18 PM EDT
I'm not sure if there are many scopes out there with this system but in the latest Blue Press, there is a Vartac Ramshot Scope that has a "grid" under the horizontal axis of the recticle. I know there are plenty of mildot scopes with the dots on the horizontal and verticle axis of the recticle, but this is the first "grid" system that I've seen.

Are these available by other manufacturers? Any more info on this scope/type of scope?

scottMO
Link Posted: 9/18/2003 6:20:02 PM EDT
Anybody? scottMO
Link Posted: 9/19/2003 11:54:06 PM EDT
The only scope that I have seen with that is the NCstar range finders, and a few other copies. I would not spend money on it when mil-dot is pretty easy after a while. If you really like that set up check out the Sheppard scopes it has the grid with circles to do rangefinding
Link Posted: 9/20/2003 6:15:54 AM EDT
I am not familiar with the Vartac, but as far as grid systems go, Burris has the normal mil-dot reticles, but are now offering what they call "Balistic Plex". It has range adjustment hash marks below the horizontal cross-hair. http://burrisoptics.com/reticles.html I hope this helps, Harry
Link Posted: 9/20/2003 11:41:18 AM EDT
The only other company to offer anything like the Ramshot scope, is a company called Horus Vision. IMO, the reticles have too much going on to be "quick". If you want something that's quick, just shoot your gun enough, find out where it hits at different ranges, and remember those values. You'll be able to crank the scope alot faster than remembering which hash mark to line up with the target.
Link Posted: 9/22/2003 12:47:32 PM EDT
Originally Posted By scottMO: I'm not sure if there are many scopes out there with this system but in the latest Blue Press, there is a Vartac Ramshot Scope that has a "grid" under the horizontal axis of the recticle. I know there are plenty of mildot scopes with the dots on the horizontal and verticle axis of the recticle, but this is the first "grid" system that I've seen. Are these available by other manufacturers? Any more info on this scope/type of scope? scottMO
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Night Force offers a couple grid type reticles including the NP-R2 which is a grid setup using MOAs as a unit of measure rather than MILs (miliradians). I feel there is an advantage to having a reticle that reads in the same unit of measure as the turrets. If you prefer MILs they do offer a MILdot reticle as well. They have diagrams of the reticle on their website and also have a downloadable Adobe Acrobat booklet that has large diagrams and explanations for their different reticles. --RR [url]http://www.nightforceoptics.com/reticles.html[/url]
Link Posted: 9/22/2003 12:57:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/25/2003 10:50:50 AM EDT by TWIRE]
I saw one in SWAT. Try [url=www.horusvision.com]Horus Vision[/url]. Interesting concept, but the reticle is awfully busy.
Link Posted: 9/25/2003 10:52:17 AM EDT
[url=www.horusvision.com]Horus Vision[/url] Check out the simulator under the heading Play the game.
Link Posted: 9/25/2003 11:01:43 AM EDT
It’s not a milradian it is a Mil, they are two separate units of measure. The Mil was developed by a Swiss-French artillery officer in the 1800 and has been the standard for western artillerymen since the end of World War II. The US adopted Mils when it adopted French Field artillery in the First World War, and standardized on them once coastal artillery, who use degrees, minutes, second, went away during World War II
Link Posted: 9/25/2003 11:38:07 AM EDT
Lets see, first came "gimmick triggers" like the "Hell-fire" or was it "gimmick ammo" like Glaser, I forget, but now they have "gimmick recticles", gimme a break..... That Horus thing is the dumbest looking crap I seen in awhile, what idiot would buy such an ugly looking thing? This gimmick shit whether FA trigger devices or 9000 fps 357 mag ammo are only designed for one thing and that is to seperate suckers from their hard earned cash. This recticle BS is no different, ya want a good scope recticle, other than the try'n true mil-dot, go to Premier Recticle and buy yourself a Leupold w/ a GEN II, and you'll have something ya can use....., [b]for the rest of your life[/b]. Face it, no reputable scope maker would put that gimmick shit on one of their scopes, that's why there's all these weird names like Ramshot and Vartac, I bet the optics are almost as good as the spotting scopes they loan ya at the rifle range, with which your lucky to see a Tromix upper hole at 100 yards. my 2cents, Mike
Link Posted: 9/25/2003 2:48:05 PM EDT
Originally Posted By STLRN: It’s not a milradian it is a Mil, they are two separate units of measure. The Mil was developed by a Swiss-French artillery officer in the 1800 and has been the standard for western artillerymen since the end of World War II. The US adopted Mils when it adopted French Field artillery in the First World War, and standardized on them once coastal artillery, who use degrees, minutes, second, went away during World War II
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[blue]Sorry... I'll have to disagree with you. Below is a quote from a MIL-DOT reticle instruction page.[/blue] Range Estimating with the Mil-Dot Reticle Dots are spaced in one mil (milliradian) increments on the crosshair. Using the mil formula, a table can be created like the ones above that is based on the size of the object being targeted. Just look through the scope, bracket the object between dots, and refer to the table for an estimated distance to target. The radian is a unit less measure which is equivalent, in use, to degrees. It tells you how far around a circle you have gone. 2 PI radians = 360 degrees. Using 3.14 as the value of PI, 6.28 radians take you all the way around a circle. Using a Cartesian coordinate system, you can use "x"- and "y"-values to define any point on the plane. Radians are used in a coordinate system called "polar coordinates." A point on the plane is defined, in the polar coordinate system, using the radian and the radius. The radian defines the amount of rotation and the radius gives the distance from the origin (in a negative or positive direction). The radian is another measurement of rotation (the degree/minute/second-system being the first). This is the system used in the mil-dot reticle. We use the same equation that we used before, but, instead of your calculator being in "degree" mode, switch it to "radian" mode. One milliradian = 1/1000 (.001) radians. So, type .001 into your calculator and hit the "tangent" button. Then multiply this by "distance to the target." Finally, multiply this by 36 to get inches subtended at the given distance. With the calculator in "radian" mode, type: tangent(.001)*100*36 = 3.6000012" So, one milliradian is just over 3.6 inches at 100 yards. If we extrapolate, two milliradians equal about 6 feet at one-thousand yards. The mil-dot reticle was designed around the measurement unit of the milliradian. The dots, themselves, were designed with this in mind and the spacing of the dots was also based upon the milliradian. This allows the shooter to calculate the distance to an object of known height or width. Height of the target in yards divided by the height of the target in milliradians multiplied by 1000 equals the distance to the target in yards. For example, take a 6-foot-tall man (2 yards). Let's say that the top of his head lines up with one dot and his feet line up four dots down. So: (2/4)*1000 = 500 yards away. This same technique can be used to estimate lead on a moving target or to compensate for deflection on a windy day. The distance from the center of one dot to the center of the next dot is 1 milliradian. We are told (by Leupold) that the length of a dot on one of their reticles is 1/4 milliradian or 3/4 MOA (Given this much information, one can determine that the distance between dots is 3/4 milliradian.).* I use the term "length" because the mil-dot is not round in all cases. It is oblong in some scopes and round in others (tasco). The width of each dot is an arbitrary distance and is not used for any practical purpose. Like a duplex reticle, the mil-dot reticle is thicker towards the edges and uses thin lines in the middle where the dots are located and the crosshairs cross. The distance between the opposite thick portions is 10 milliradians on Leupold scopes. *NOTE: 1/4 milliradian = .9" and 3/4 MOA = .785", so, obviously, a mil-dot cannot be both 1/4 milliradian and 3/4 MOA. The maker of the mil-dot reticles for Leupold explains: the dots on their mil-dot reticles are 1/4 mil. They are not 3/4 MOA. Apparently, Leupold just figured that more shooters understand MOA than milliradians, so they just gave a figure (in MOA) that was close, but not super precise. To use a mil-dot reticle effectively, all one need remember is that the distance between dot centers is 36" at 1000 yards. This lets you determine the range of a target of known size. At that point, you can dial the scope in for proper elevation OR use the dots to hold over the proper amount. The dots on the horizontal crosshair can be used to lead a target (if you know the range to the target, then you'll know the distance between dots, and thus the distance to lead) or to compensate for deflection.
Link Posted: 9/28/2003 6:36:25 AM EDT
Originally Posted By the1_roadrunner:
Originally Posted By STLRN: It’s not a milradian it is a Mil, they are two separate units of measure. The Mil was developed by a Swiss-French artillery officer in the 1800 and has been the standard for western artillerymen since the end of World War II. The US adopted Mils when it adopted French Field artillery in the First World War, and standardized on them once coastal artillery, who use degrees, minutes, second, went away during World War II
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[blue]Sorry... I'll have to disagree with you. Below is a quote from a MIL-DOT reticle instruction page.[/blue] Range Estimating with the Mil-Dot Reticle Dots are spaced in one mil (milliradian) increments on the crosshair. Using the mil formula, a table can be created like the ones above that is based on the size of the object being targeted. Just look through the scope, bracket the object between dots, and refer to the table for an estimated distance to target. The radian is a unit less measure which is equivalent, in use, to degrees. It tells you how far around a circle you have gone. 2 PI radians = 360 degrees. Using 3.14 as the value of PI, 6.28 radians take you all the way around a circle. Using a Cartesian coordinate system, you can use "x"- and "y"-values to define any point on the plane. Radians are used in a coordinate system called "polar coordinates." A point on the plane is defined, in the polar coordinate system, using the radian and the radius. The radian defines the amount of rotation and the radius gives the distance from the origin (in a negative or positive direction). The radian is another measurement of rotation (the degree/minute/second-system being the first). This is the system used in the mil-dot reticle. We use the same equation that we used before, but, instead of your calculator being in "degree" mode, switch it to "radian" mode. One milliradian = 1/1000 (.001) radians. So, type .001 into your calculator and hit the "tangent" button. Then multiply this by "distance to the target." Finally, multiply this by 36 to get inches subtended at the given distance. With the calculator in "radian" mode, type: tangent(.001)*100*36 = 3.6000012" So, one milliradian is just over 3.6 inches at 100 yards. If we extrapolate, two milliradians equal about 6 feet at one-thousand yards. The mil-dot reticle was designed around the measurement unit of the milliradian. The dots, themselves, were designed with this in mind and the spacing of the dots was also based upon the milliradian. This allows the shooter to calculate the distance to an object of known height or width. Height of the target in yards divided by the height of the target in milliradians multiplied by 1000 equals the distance to the target in yards. For example, take a 6-foot-tall man (2 yards). Let's say that the top of his head lines up with one dot and his feet line up four dots down. So: (2/4)*1000 = 500 yards away. This same technique can be used to estimate lead on a moving target or to compensate for deflection on a windy day. The distance from the center of one dot to the center of the next dot is 1 milliradian. We are told (by Leupold) that the length of a dot on one of their reticles is 1/4 milliradian or 3/4 MOA (Given this much information, one can determine that the distance between dots is 3/4 milliradian.).* I use the term "length" because the mil-dot is not round in all cases. It is oblong in some scopes and round in others (tasco). The width of each dot is an arbitrary distance and is not used for any practical purpose. Like a duplex reticle, the mil-dot reticle is thicker towards the edges and uses thin lines in the middle where the dots are located and the crosshairs cross. The distance between the opposite thick portions is 10 milliradians on Leupold scopes. *NOTE: 1/4 milliradian = .9" and 3/4 MOA = .785", so, obviously, a mil-dot cannot be both 1/4 milliradian and 3/4 MOA. The maker of the mil-dot reticles for Leupold explains: the dots on their mil-dot reticles are 1/4 mil. They are not 3/4 MOA. Apparently, Leupold just figured that more shooters understand MOA than milliradians, so they just gave a figure (in MOA) that was close, but not super precise. To use a mil-dot reticle effectively, all one need remember is that the distance between dot centers is 36" at 1000 yards. This lets you determine the range of a target of known size. At that point, you can dial the scope in for proper elevation OR use the dots to hold over the proper amount. The dots on the horizontal crosshair can be used to lead a target (if you know the range to the target, then you'll know the distance between dots, and thus the distance to lead) or to compensate for deflection.
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Roadrunner I am an artillery officer and in this one instance I think I know a bit more about the subject than allot of self proclaimed "subject matter experts." The Mil was created by Capt Charles Dapples, an artillery officer for the Swiss, in the late 1800s. He initially went with actual Milaradians, but found the approx 6283 in a circle a number that was hard to work with (try doing the math with that number), so he rounded off to 6400, to make it easier to do the math (the Russians did the same thing with their DC system but rounded down. The term "mil" is still used because of the French word "millieme," or thousands. Because of the mil subtends approx 1 meter for every thousand meters. I say approximately because artillerymen knowing they are not true Miliradians have been taught for years to multiply or divide by 1.0186 in order to convert to Miliradians for finding true values.
Link Posted: 9/28/2003 7:13:46 AM EDT
I just looked up Mil-Dot in the book [u] The Ultimate Sniper[/u], by John Plaster. His explanation of the Mil-Dot system is the same as STLRN.
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