AR Sponsor
Posted: 12/21/2002 11:58:28 PM EDT
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I am hoping that someone here can help me. I am thinking about putting some type of optic on my 2 AR's. I have always used the iron sights on them so I am new to optics other then on my precision rifles. So just like the subject line says who has time to talk to me about optics? I get lost when I read about ACOG's, AimPoint etc, and then you hear ARM's this and picitanny rail that, blah-blah-blah. Use on w/your iron sights, or use the optics, co-witness that. The rifles I am wanting to put optics on are a Col 9mm and a 20" HBAR. Any input would be apprecated. Thanks |
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Are they fixed loop carry handles or flat top ? Best advise I can give is to try before you buy. Many people will let you shoot if not at least hold their rifle to get an idea if the optics work for you. What is the intended range ? What purpose ? How much $$$ do you want to spend on it ? |
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Both rifles have fixed carry handles on them. Specific questions lets start with the 9mm. Optics or red dot sight? Primarially shooting CQB to 100 yards max with it. I know it will shoot farther then 100 yards but if I need further I will go with the .223. I will shoot the .223 anywhere from 25 yards to 200+. Will probably use this rifle more then the 9mm. I would like to outfit both rifles for under $750 (optics/sight, and mounts) but seeing some of the prices listed on the board I doubt that is going to happen. In my climate what ever is chosen needs to be able to work well in the WET weather conditions. What is co-witnessing and how does it work? What kind of mounts are suggested? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks |
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Yes, getting both of them outfitted with serious-use optics for $750 is going to be tough. At the ranges you are discussing, I would recommend looking at EOtechs, Aimpoints, and compact ACOGs. I think the red dot will be the easiest to use initially and definitely the fastest at the ranges you mention (EOTech and Aimpoints). The compact ACOGs are nice as well and I like them a lot; but the learning curve may be a bit steeper. All three of these are military tough optics and should stand up to wet weather no problem; but I have yet to use any of them in those conditions so that is just a WAG on my part. What is co-witnessing and how does it work? Co-witnessing is setting up an unmagnified red dot (like the EOtech or Aimpoint) so that you can use your iron sights through the optic. This way even if the sight fails, you still can use irons immediately. In order to do this, you generally mount the red dot where you can see your front sight through it. Sight the red dot and then sight your irons again as the sight will distort your previous zero a little. What kind of mounts are suggested? For a carry handle you have two choices, a forward "gooseneck" mount that puts the sight out over the foregrips or mounting it in the carry handle. The compact ACOGs are sold with a model that fits into an M16 carry handle nice and snug. These are about the only one of the sights I would recommend mounting in the carry handle and even then, you'll have to holdover targets some closer than 15yds or so. You won't be able to co-witness; but these sights have a tunnel underneath them so you can still use irons immediately. Eye-relief may be an issue for you. The EOtech and Aimpoint have to be mounted on a 1913 rail, so by the time you added an adapter to put a rail in your carry handle and then mount the sight on top of that, you'll have the sight sitting way over the bore and that can be awkward at both longer distances and close up (for close in targets, you might be shooting as much as 4" low due to the distance between sight and bore) Using an ARMS #39 will let you mount either of these sights out over the foregrips, where you can acquire them faster and still use irons if you need to. It also brings them down closer to the bore. The mount alone is around $125 though. There are also some good budget red dots you might consider for one or both rifles; but I don't have much experience with any of them so I'll let someone else address that. |
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Thanks for replying. So you use the red dot sight with your irons. You don't use the red dot as a stand alone sight then. If that makes sense. So then tell me I see several guys on here who have posted pictures of their weapons and they have what appears to be 2 compact sights on the gun. I have seen these mainly on flat tops, what kind of system do they have? Would it be prudent to purchase a flattop to expand my options? Although if I do that it would blow a good portion of money that was intended for optics. I was given a Tasco red dot and have it on my Colt 9mm. I have it mounted on my carry handle now and seems to be an ok sight but it seems with only a 30mm objective (I think?)target aquisition is slow compared to iron sights. Anyone else have any input??? |
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With your budget you should look at the used Acogs. I might be biased because I have one, but if I was you I'll use the $ 750.00 on a used TA11. There is always a few on the board and deals can be had. Never used the Tasco, but the Aimpoints are quite fast. IMO Do one rifle at the time. So then tell me I see several guys on here who have posted pictures of their weapons and they have what appears to be 2 compact sights on the gun. I have seen these mainly on flat tops, what kind of system do they have? I can only guess without the picture, probably an Aimpoint plus a Night Vision Monocular behind? |
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Thanks for replying. So you use the red dot sight with your irons. You don't use the red dot as a stand alone sight then. If that makes sense. Think of the red dot as your primary and the irons as your backup. You use the red dot until it is no longer useful and then if that happens, you switch to irons. Would it be prudent to purchase a flattop to expand my options? Although if I do that it would blow a good portion of money that was intended for optics. Well, if you purchase a flattop, it will cost about as much as an ARMS #39 mount. You will lose your iron sights though and you will still need to buy a mount if you go with compact ACOG or Aimpoint (EOtech has a flattop mount built in). I was given a Tasco red dot and have it on my Colt 9mm. I have it mounted on my carry handle now and seems to be an ok sight but it seems with only a 30mm objective (I think?)target aquisition is slow compared to iron sights. Well, I'd leave the Tasco for the 9mm and work on the HBAR. You may also want to try some optics because if you don't find the Tasco useful, you might be disappointed with some of what I've suggested also. |
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