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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Why I avoid plastic magazines.. (Page 1 of 3)
Posted: 12/9/2014 9:52:49 PM EDT
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http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/11/25/shotgun-news-test-ar-15-magazines every picture tells a story.. |
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This story is 5 years old. Quoted:
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http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/11/25/shotgun-news-test-ar-15-magazines/ every picture tells a story.. This story is 5 years old. I dont mind GI mags but plastic is here to stay. You all might as well get used to it. |
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We make a plastic mag that won't crack or break.
We gave some of our mags to David Fortier (the gentleman who wrote that article) and we politely told him that we feel it's time to do a new mag torture test. Here is a link to our YouTube channel with some drop test videos... ETS Group YouTube Channel |
| Has anyone ever tested polymer mags hot? I mean like Custer's last stand hot... last mag inserted and wait for the second wave? Serious question... cause I don't know. Any feed lip melt issues like the old Canadian mags were rumored to have? I have no experience with polymer. Driving trucks over mags is impressive but seems to be the major focus of polymer mag salesmen. |
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Has anyone ever tested polymer mags hot? I mean like Custer's last stand hot... last mag inserted and wait for the second wave? Serious question... cause I don't know. Any feed lip melt issues like the old Canadian mags were rumored to have? I have no experience with polymer. Driving trucks over mags is impressive but seems to be the major focus of polymer mag salesmen. That's a very legit question. According to a test published in 1996 by Jeff Windham, most of the heat accumulates several inches forward from the chamber. That is where the failure from heat will occur. I think another test done by the military where they fired an M4 to failure they noted that temps in the area where the mag sits never got above 220-240 range. Bottom line, you will destroy the weapon before you melt our mag. Our plastic won't melt until well over 700f. If our mag melts while it's in your gun, you have other problems to worry about. |
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That's a very legit question. According to a test published in 1996 by Jeff Windham, most of the heat accumulates several inches forward from the chamber. That is where the failure from heat will occur. I think another test done by the military where they fired an M4 to failure they noted that temps in the area where the mag sits never got above 220-240 range. Bottom line, you will destroy the weapon before you melt our mag. Our plastic won't melt until well over 700f. If our mag melts while it's in your gun, you have other problems to worry about. Quoted:
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Has anyone ever tested polymer mags hot? I mean like Custer's last stand hot... last mag inserted and wait for the second wave? Serious question... cause I don't know. Any feed lip melt issues like the old Canadian mags were rumored to have? I have no experience with polymer. Driving trucks over mags is impressive but seems to be the major focus of polymer mag salesmen. That's a very legit question. According to a test published in 1996 by Jeff Windham, most of the heat accumulates several inches forward from the chamber. That is where the failure from heat will occur. I think another test done by the military where they fired an M4 to failure they noted that temps in the area where the mag sits never got above 220-240 range. Bottom line, you will destroy the weapon before you melt our mag. Our plastic won't melt until well over 700f. If our mag melts while it's in your gun, you have other problems to worry about. Thank you! You guys should prove that 
I think I want to give your mag a try... |
| let's see here, if i read all the stupid fucking threads about AR durability on ARF.com, i need my AR to be made out of an abrams tank with titanium mags. i just have to hope i dont get hit by a hell fire missile, otherwise it might jam on me. and 556 is a pussy round with no stopping power, it needs to be 155mm minimum. |
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Has anyone ever tested polymer mags hot? I mean like Custer's last stand hot... last mag inserted and wait for the second wave? Serious question... cause I don't know. Any feed lip melt issues like the old Canadian mags were rumored to have? I have no experience with polymer. Driving trucks over mags is impressive but seems to be the major focus of polymer mag salesmen. Lots of us did multiple times while deployed. Now that I work in a film prop house and test blanks we have melted the gas tube off an A2 with full flash blanks with no mag problems. This was with Magpul (military) and Troy mags. Troy for film use as we consider them disposable - but they hold up well until the follower melts from gas blowback into the chamber. |
| Thank you for updating me, i like the idea of a transparent magazine but that article scared me a little, am ex military and when it comes to feed mechanisms for a firearm i don't play and seeing how those mags cracked made me shudder, do you have any plans to make a 20 rd magazine ? |
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Thank you for updating me, i like the idea of a transparent magazine but that article scared me a little, am ex military and when it comes to feed mechanisms for a firearm i don't play and seeing how those mags cracked made me shudder, do you have any plans to make a 20 rd magazine ? I think this was a question for us, and yes, we do plan on making a 20 round mag in the future. |
| We discussed this to death when it was released just like the "unscientific plastic magazine test" thread which had the exact same results. The usual suspects came out with all the usual excuses:: "too small sample size, no special fixture to drop the mags, blah, blah". The only magazine that wasn't broken on either test was the Lancer. (except when shot with the .50 cal.) |
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We discussed this to death when it was released just like the "unscientific plastic magazine test" thread which had the exact same results. The usual suspecte came out with all the usual excuses:: "too small sample size, no special fixture to drop thye mags, blah, blah". The only magazine that wasn't broken on either test was the Lancer. (except when shot with the .50 cal.) It's true, glass re-enforced nylon just can not withstand the impact of a loaded mag being dropped onto concrete. That's why we don't use that as our material. You will not hear any excuses from us because our mag won't break. |
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Are you going to make an AR-10 mag? There are problems with the MagPul Gen 3 mags holding the bolt back in some rifles...the follower doesn't ride up high enough to catch the bolt. Their Gen 2 Mags won't drop free in some rifles. So, what's the plan? Yes we do plan to make a .308 mag. It's probably about 6 months off though. |
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Coool beans! We'll be waiting.
This mag thing is a major PITA. Also, y'all ought to get ahold of RRA and fix their mag problems with the LAR-8. I love their Varmit A4, it's a shooter, but couldn't deal w/ the feed issues with their mags...I think they're made from re-cycled Pringles containers. |
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Yes, yes, yes. Curved 20's are an abomination. Quoted:
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I think this was a question for us, and yes, we do plan on making a 20 round mag in the future. Please make it straight..... Yes, yes, yes. Curved 20's are an abomination. We are still looking into the advantages/disadvantages of a straight body vs curved. I will say that if we can't find a definite advantage performance wise with the curved geometry on a stack of 20 rounds, we will make the body straight because we think it looks better. However, if the curved body proves to be more reliable than a straight body, that is the route we will go, because ultimately it has to work all the time, regardless of looks. |
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Quoted:We are still looking into the advantages/disadvantages of a straight body vs curved. I will say that if we can't find a definite advantage performance wise with the curved geometry on a stack of 20 rounds, we will make the body straight because we think it looks better. However, if the curved body proves to be more reliable than a straight body, that is the route we will go, because ultimately it has to work all the time, regardless of looks. Understood and you're completely right that nothing should trump function. {That said, I can't resist pointing out that possibly the most-loved, most-sought, and arguably most (as a breed) reliable magazine is the old GI 20-rounder. I have some that I know are over 40 years old and have literally never had a malf with. Surely modern manufacturing processes and materials can do as well. There's a lot of folks who would pay more for straight 20's than for curved 20's. Just sayin'....  }
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We are still looking into the advantages/disadvantages of a straight body vs curved. I will say that if we can't find a definite advantage performance wise with the curved geometry on a stack of 20 rounds, we will make the body straight because we think it looks better. However, if the curved body proves to be more reliable than a straight body, that is the route we will go, because ultimately it has to work all the time, regardless of looks. Quoted:
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I think this was a question for us, and yes, we do plan on making a 20 round mag in the future. Please make it straight..... Yes, yes, yes. Curved 20's are an abomination. We are still looking into the advantages/disadvantages of a straight body vs curved. I will say that if we can't find a definite advantage performance wise with the curved geometry on a stack of 20 rounds, we will make the body straight because we think it looks better. However, if the curved body proves to be more reliable than a straight body, that is the route we will go, because ultimately it has to work all the time, regardless of looks. In theory, a curved mag body on a 20 rounder allows longer spring life (IN THEORY). When fully loaded, the spring is not as compressed. That said, I have many strait 20's from the 60's that have the original spring (and loaded much of their life) that still work perfectly. Now, I prefer the curved 20's altho I own a metric ton of older straits. I got rid of most of my strait magpuls while keeping the curved ones- I like the theory (and being different). To each their own.
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Lots of us did multiple times while deployed. Now that I work in a film prop house and test blanks we have melted the gas tube off an A2 with full flash blanks with no mag problems. This was with Magpul (military) and Troy mags. Troy for film use as we consider them disposable - but they hold up well until the follower melts from gas blowback into the chamber. Quoted:
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Has anyone ever tested polymer mags hot? I mean like Custer's last stand hot... last mag inserted and wait for the second wave? Serious question... cause I don't know. Any feed lip melt issues like the old Canadian mags were rumored to have? I have no experience with polymer. Driving trucks over mags is impressive but seems to be the major focus of polymer mag salesmen. Lots of us did multiple times while deployed. Now that I work in a film prop house and test blanks we have melted the gas tube off an A2 with full flash blanks with no mag problems. This was with Magpul (military) and Troy mags. Troy for film use as we consider them disposable - but they hold up well until the follower melts from gas blowback into the chamber. Hi, The real issue with Nylon magazines is that nobody tests them for hot and humid. Nylon is a hydroscopic polymer and as it absorbs water out of the air it softens an looses strength. The secondary effect is the magazine swells to the point it has to be pulled out, or with a tight magwell can jam in it. Nylon magazine have benefited in that the last two places we fought wars while hot also tended to be dry. Aluminium and Stainless Steel magazines do not have this problem. Manufacturers add glass to the mix to fight this, but that in turn makes the magazines more brittle, and prone to cracking. In the last year I've done the truck test several times with Nylon magazines and ended up with spline cracks or ammo dented bad enough it wouldn't go into the chamber. I'm also sticking to metal magazines for now. Best Wishes
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In theory, a curved mag body on a 20 rounder allows longer spring life (IN THEORY). When fully loaded, the spring is not as compressed. That said, I have many strait 20's from the 60's that have the original spring (and loaded much of their life) that still work perfectly. Now, I prefer the curved 20's altho I own a metric ton of older straits. I got rid of most of my strait magpuls while keeping the curved ones- I like the theory (and being different). To each their own. Quoted:
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I think this was a question for us, and yes, we do plan on making a 20 round mag in the future. Please make it straight..... Yes, yes, yes. Curved 20's are an abomination. We are still looking into the advantages/disadvantages of a straight body vs curved. I will say that if we can't find a definite advantage performance wise with the curved geometry on a stack of 20 rounds, we will make the body straight because we think it looks better. However, if the curved body proves to be more reliable than a straight body, that is the route we will go, because ultimately it has to work all the time, regardless of looks. In theory, a curved mag body on a 20 rounder allows longer spring life (IN THEORY). When fully loaded, the spring is not as compressed. That said, I have many strait 20's from the 60's that have the original spring (and loaded much of their life) that still work perfectly. Now, I prefer the curved 20's altho I own a metric ton of older straits. I got rid of most of my strait magpuls while keeping the curved ones- I like the theory (and being different). To each their own. Straight 20 USGI is more reliable. The curved body is the problem with 30's which is why you need "anti-tilt" followers. |
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I think this was a question for us, and yes, we do plan on making a 20 round mag in the future. Quoted:
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Thank you for updating me, i like the idea of a transparent magazine but that article scared me a little, am ex military and when it comes to feed mechanisms for a firearm i don't play and seeing how those mags cracked made me shudder, do you have any plans to make a 20 rd magazine ? I think this was a question for us, and yes, we do plan on making a 20 round mag in the future. will it be straight or curved? I am a straight man myself. edit: already asked, I was on page 1 |
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Hi, The real issue with Nylon magazines is that nobody tests them for hot and humid. Nylon is a hydroscopic polymer and as it absorbs water out of the air it softens an looses strength. The secondary effect is the magazine swells to the point it has to be pulled out, or with a tight magwell can jam in it. Nylon magazine have benefited in that the last two places we fought wars while hot also tended to be dry. Aluminium and Stainless Steel magazines do not have this problem. Manufacturers add glass to the mix to fight this, but that in turn makes the magazines more brittle, and prone to cracking. In the last year I've done the truck test several times with Nylon magazines and ended up with spline cracks or ammo dented bad enough it wouldn't go into the chamber. I'm also sticking to metal magazines for now. Best Wishes
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Has anyone ever tested polymer mags hot? I mean like Custer's last stand hot... last mag inserted and wait for the second wave? Serious question... cause I don't know. Any feed lip melt issues like the old Canadian mags were rumored to have? I have no experience with polymer. Driving trucks over mags is impressive but seems to be the major focus of polymer mag salesmen. Lots of us did multiple times while deployed. Now that I work in a film prop house and test blanks we have melted the gas tube off an A2 with full flash blanks with no mag problems. This was with Magpul (military) and Troy mags. Troy for film use as we consider them disposable - but they hold up well until the follower melts from gas blowback into the chamber. Hi, The real issue with Nylon magazines is that nobody tests them for hot and humid. Nylon is a hydroscopic polymer and as it absorbs water out of the air it softens an looses strength. The secondary effect is the magazine swells to the point it has to be pulled out, or with a tight magwell can jam in it. Nylon magazine have benefited in that the last two places we fought wars while hot also tended to be dry. Aluminium and Stainless Steel magazines do not have this problem. Manufacturers add glass to the mix to fight this, but that in turn makes the magazines more brittle, and prone to cracking. In the last year I've done the truck test several times with Nylon magazines and ended up with spline cracks or ammo dented bad enough it wouldn't go into the chamber. I'm also sticking to metal magazines for now. Best Wishes
You are dead right about nylon absorbing water. Since water acts as a plasticizer for nylon it weakens and it also causes swelling exactly like you said. This is another reason we made sure to choose a polymer that was not hygroscopic. We don't have to worry about the properties of our material changing based on the environmental humidity. |
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Straight 20 USGI is more reliable. The curved body is the problem with 30's which is why you need "anti-tilt" followers. Quoted:
Quoted:
In theory, a curved mag body on a 20 rounder allows longer spring life (IN THEORY). When fully loaded, the spring is not as compressed. That said, I have many strait 20's from the 60's that have the original spring (and loaded much of their life) that still work perfectly. Now, I prefer the curved 20's altho I own a metric ton of older straits. I got rid of most of my strait magpuls while keeping the curved ones- I like the theory (and being different). To each their own. Straight 20 USGI is more reliable. The curved body is the problem with 30's which is why you need "anti-tilt" followers. Is that why straight 20's are ALL the military uses now? Oh, no, they use curved mags with anti-tilt followers last I looked (30's). A curved mag works just as reliable as any of my USGI strait 20's in all my shooting (AR's since early 70's). Using the proper anti-tilt follower is no problem, even though I never experienced tilting with my older black or green followers (semi-auto use). The enhanced followers make great sense and take almost no time to swap (if needed). I'm not saying the strait 20's were not reliable, but all my curved 20's run 100% reliable also. I have many curved D&H and Magpul 20's (which I prefer over my strait 20's for range use). It's great to have choices.
The strait 20's are sexy looking and work great, but the same can be said about curved 20's. Question- Why would Magpul knowingly make unreliable mags? Answer- they don't. Curved 20's work just as well. |
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You are dead right about nylon absorbing water. Since water acts as a plasticizer for nylon it weakens and it also causes swelling exactly like you said. This is another reason we made sure to choose a polymer that was not hygroscopic. We don't have to worry about the properties of our material changing based on the environmental humidity. Quoted:
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Has anyone ever tested polymer mags hot? I mean like Custer's last stand hot... last mag inserted and wait for the second wave? Serious question... cause I don't know. Any feed lip melt issues like the old Canadian mags were rumored to have? I have no experience with polymer. Driving trucks over mags is impressive but seems to be the major focus of polymer mag salesmen. Lots of us did multiple times while deployed. Now that I work in a film prop house and test blanks we have melted the gas tube off an A2 with full flash blanks with no mag problems. This was with Magpul (military) and Troy mags. Troy for film use as we consider them disposable - but they hold up well until the follower melts from gas blowback into the chamber. Hi, The real issue with Nylon magazines is that nobody tests them for hot and humid. Nylon is a hydroscopic polymer and as it absorbs water out of the air it softens an looses strength. The secondary effect is the magazine swells to the point it has to be pulled out, or with a tight magwell can jam in it. Nylon magazine have benefited in that the last two places we fought wars while hot also tended to be dry. Aluminium and Stainless Steel magazines do not have this problem. Manufacturers add glass to the mix to fight this, but that in turn makes the magazines more brittle, and prone to cracking. In the last year I've done the truck test several times with Nylon magazines and ended up with spline cracks or ammo dented bad enough it wouldn't go into the chamber. I'm also sticking to metal magazines for now. Best Wishes
You are dead right about nylon absorbing water. Since water acts as a plasticizer for nylon it weakens and it also causes swelling exactly like you said. This is another reason we made sure to choose a polymer that was not hygroscopic. We don't have to worry about the properties of our material changing based on the environmental humidity. One problem with polymers is that they degrade and break down over time, becoming brittle with age. They will look identical, but their molecular composition will have become degraded. That's why lots of old plastic parts, or even plastic upholstery on cars, etc, are cracked, or will crack easily when they are a certain number of years old and they wouldn't when new. Is there any way to predict the polymer time degradation of your formula to see how your magazines will hold up over the long haul? . No sense in stock piling magazines that will, or may, becoming brittle in a few decades. Also, for us in colder climates, I hope you guys do / did a lot of cold weather impact testing. Lots of materials weaken substantially in artic climates. |
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One problem with polymers is that they degrade and break down over time, becoming brittle with age. They will look identical, but their molecular composition will have become degraded. That's why lots of old plastic parts, or even plastic upholstery on cars, etc, are cracked, or will crack easily when they are a certain number of years old and they wouldn't when new. Is there any way to predict the polymer time degradation of your formula to see how your magazines will hold up over the long haul? . No sense in stock piling magazines that will, or may, becoming brittle in a few decades. Also, for us in colder climates, I hope you guys do / did a lot of cold weather impact testing. Lots of materials weaken substantially in artic climates. These are some very good questions. I will address them individually. Polymer degradation...we have all see it on old cars. Most of the time this comes from sun (UV rays) or from years of heat cycling. The good news is that in recent years there has been a lot of progress in how we deal with these problems. In our material, there were additives put in to specifically protect the plastic from UV. The labs tested our polymer for 10,000 hours of exposure to a high level of UV. That's roughly 416 days of straight elevated UV exposure. Our material retained over 99% of it's mechanical properties, so it was basically unaffected. The other issue is heat. The labs test our material taking it to over 300F (it won't melt until well over 700F) 10,000 times. Even after that extreme heat cycle testing, our material retained over 90% of it's mechanical properties. So the short answer to your question is that yes, by doing this kind of lab testing we can accurately predict how the material will respond over time to various environments that it may encounter. If you store our mags inside, There is literally no telling how long they would last. A lot longer than we will live. Now, your question about cold is a very good question also. Once again, the thermal stability of our material plays a big role here. We have tested the mags down to -40F. Our material can withstand more impact at -40F than other poly mags can at room temp (73F). We dropped the mag many times after letting it sit at -40F for 48 hours. The toughest drop test was 6ft on the feedlips. The mags never broke. So you don't need to worry about them becoming brittle even in the coldest of places. The same thing goes for elevated temps. You can store these mags loaded in the trunk of a car in the hottest places on earth and not have to worry about the plastic becoming soft and spitting rounds out. All of these issues is why we spent over a year testing and perfecting our plastic. We wanted a material that could handle any scenario within reason, like DEET (We submerged it in 99.9% pure DEET for 3 weeks and it was completely unaffected). There are a lot of amazing things about our mags that you just can't see with the naked eye, but believe me when I tell you that there is a ton of science behind them and we engineered them to last as long as your rifle. |
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I have seen three new Pmags crack on day two of a patrol rifle class. My 12 year old usgi mags worked flawlessly and I will continue to stick with metal mags.... That's why we didn't make our mags out of the same material as a pmag. I really do understand where you are coming from, but I urge you to take a hard look at our mags. They are tougher than a GI mag in every way. This is not an opinion, these are facts that are easily proven. |
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These are some very good questions. I will address them individually. Polymer degradation...we have all see it on old cars. Most of the time this comes from sun (UV rays) or from years of heat cycling. The good news is that in recent years there has been a lot of progress in how we deal with these problems. In our material, there were additives put in to specifically protect the plastic from UV. The labs tested our polymer for 10,000 hours of exposure to a high level of UV. That's roughly 416 days of straight elevated UV exposure. Our material retained over 99% of it's mechanical properties, so it was basically unaffected. The other issue is heat. The labs test our material taking it to over 300F (it won't melt until well over 700F) 10,000 times. Even after that extreme heat cycle testing, our material retained over 90% of it's mechanical properties. So the short answer to your question is that yes, by doing this kind of lab testing we can accurately predict how the material will respond over time to various environments that it may encounter. If you store our mags inside, There is literally no telling how long they would last. A lot longer than we will live. Now, your question about cold is a very good question also. Once again, the thermal stability of our material plays a big role here. We have tested the mags down to -40F. Our material can withstand more impact at -40F than other poly mags can at room temp (73F). We dropped the mag many times after letting it sit at -40F for 48 hours. The toughest drop test was 6ft on the feedlips. The mags never broke. So you don't need to worry about them becoming brittle even in the coldest of places. The same thing goes for elevated temps. You can store these mags loaded in the trunk of a car in the hottest places on earth and not have to worry about the plastic becoming soft and spitting rounds out. All of these issues is why we spent over a year testing and perfecting our plastic. We wanted a material that could handle any scenario within reason, like DEET (We submerged it in 99.9% pure DEET for 3 weeks and it was completely unaffected). There are a lot of amazing things about our mags that you just can't see with the naked eye, but believe me when I tell you that there is a ton of science behind them and we engineered them to last as long as your rifle. Quoted:
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One problem with polymers is that they degrade and break down over time, becoming brittle with age. They will look identical, but their molecular composition will have become degraded. That's why lots of old plastic parts, or even plastic upholstery on cars, etc, are cracked, or will crack easily when they are a certain number of years old and they wouldn't when new. Is there any way to predict the polymer time degradation of your formula to see how your magazines will hold up over the long haul? . No sense in stock piling magazines that will, or may, becoming brittle in a few decades. Also, for us in colder climates, I hope you guys do / did a lot of cold weather impact testing. Lots of materials weaken substantially in artic climates. These are some very good questions. I will address them individually. Polymer degradation...we have all see it on old cars. Most of the time this comes from sun (UV rays) or from years of heat cycling. The good news is that in recent years there has been a lot of progress in how we deal with these problems. In our material, there were additives put in to specifically protect the plastic from UV. The labs tested our polymer for 10,000 hours of exposure to a high level of UV. That's roughly 416 days of straight elevated UV exposure. Our material retained over 99% of it's mechanical properties, so it was basically unaffected. The other issue is heat. The labs test our material taking it to over 300F (it won't melt until well over 700F) 10,000 times. Even after that extreme heat cycle testing, our material retained over 90% of it's mechanical properties. So the short answer to your question is that yes, by doing this kind of lab testing we can accurately predict how the material will respond over time to various environments that it may encounter. If you store our mags inside, There is literally no telling how long they would last. A lot longer than we will live. Now, your question about cold is a very good question also. Once again, the thermal stability of our material plays a big role here. We have tested the mags down to -40F. Our material can withstand more impact at -40F than other poly mags can at room temp (73F). We dropped the mag many times after letting it sit at -40F for 48 hours. The toughest drop test was 6ft on the feedlips. The mags never broke. So you don't need to worry about them becoming brittle even in the coldest of places. The same thing goes for elevated temps. You can store these mags loaded in the trunk of a car in the hottest places on earth and not have to worry about the plastic becoming soft and spitting rounds out. All of these issues is why we spent over a year testing and perfecting our plastic. We wanted a material that could handle any scenario within reason, like DEET (We submerged it in 99.9% pure DEET for 3 weeks and it was completely unaffected). There are a lot of amazing things about our mags that you just can't see with the naked eye, but believe me when I tell you that there is a ton of science behind them and we engineered them to last as long as your rifle. This is the kind of response that I appreciate. Not a lot of hype, just good detailed information. However, field testing in a totally non-scientific way is still fun. 
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This is the kind of response that I appreciate. Not a lot of hype, just good detailed information. However, field testing in a totally non-scientific way is still fun.
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One problem with polymers is that they degrade and break down over time, becoming brittle with age. They will look identical, but their molecular composition will have become degraded. That's why lots of old plastic parts, or even plastic upholstery on cars, etc, are cracked, or will crack easily when they are a certain number of years old and they wouldn't when new. Is there any way to predict the polymer time degradation of your formula to see how your magazines will hold up over the long haul? . No sense in stock piling magazines that will, or may, becoming brittle in a few decades. Also, for us in colder climates, I hope you guys do / did a lot of cold weather impact testing. Lots of materials weaken substantially in artic climates. These are some very good questions. I will address them individually. Polymer degradation...we have all see it on old cars. Most of the time this comes from sun (UV rays) or from years of heat cycling. The good news is that in recent years there has been a lot of progress in how we deal with these problems. In our material, there were additives put in to specifically protect the plastic from UV. The labs tested our polymer for 10,000 hours of exposure to a high level of UV. That's roughly 416 days of straight elevated UV exposure. Our material retained over 99% of it's mechanical properties, so it was basically unaffected. The other issue is heat. The labs test our material taking it to over 300F (it won't melt until well over 700F) 10,000 times. Even after that extreme heat cycle testing, our material retained over 90% of it's mechanical properties. So the short answer to your question is that yes, by doing this kind of lab testing we can accurately predict how the material will respond over time to various environments that it may encounter. If you store our mags inside, There is literally no telling how long they would last. A lot longer than we will live. Now, your question about cold is a very good question also. Once again, the thermal stability of our material plays a big role here. We have tested the mags down to -40F. Our material can withstand more impact at -40F than other poly mags can at room temp (73F). We dropped the mag many times after letting it sit at -40F for 48 hours. The toughest drop test was 6ft on the feedlips. The mags never broke. So you don't need to worry about them becoming brittle even in the coldest of places. The same thing goes for elevated temps. You can store these mags loaded in the trunk of a car in the hottest places on earth and not have to worry about the plastic becoming soft and spitting rounds out. All of these issues is why we spent over a year testing and perfecting our plastic. We wanted a material that could handle any scenario within reason, like DEET (We submerged it in 99.9% pure DEET for 3 weeks and it was completely unaffected). There are a lot of amazing things about our mags that you just can't see with the naked eye, but believe me when I tell you that there is a ton of science behind them and we engineered them to last as long as your rifle. This is the kind of response that I appreciate. Not a lot of hype, just good detailed information. However, field testing in a totally non-scientific way is still fun.
You got that right. I just got done doing some drop testing with our new follower configuration to make sure no more follower breakage(like you experience Eric). I'm happy to report that after 24 drops(12 on the feedlips and 12 of the base plate) from 7ft on concrete that not only did the follower survive, but the mag still runs the rifle just fine. These mags still amaze me from time to time. Plus it's a chilly 37 out there right now which makes it a tougher test. FUN STUFF!! |
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If this is your problem, http://ts2.mm.bing.net/th?id=HN.608028487448004171&w=254&h=180&c=7&rs=1&pid=1.7 This is your answer, http://ts1.mm.bing.net/th?&id=HN.607990786214135151&w=300&h=300&c=0&pid=1.9&rs=0&p=0 Lancer makes a great mag for sure. Now that I think about it, there's one in my work carbine at the moment. However, those crazy ETS mags are sure holding up unusually well. Drop tests of full mags without damage to the feed lips or spine is impressive. |
meh 
I am still using all my Gen1 PMAGs waiting for them to break or wear-out. I have dropped them fully loaded onto concrete from standing height (not on purpose  )without damage. I suppose if I am ever shooting from a ladder and drop a mag during a reload, I will just grab another one from my carry rig, unless that was my last mag  but if I empty six mags and I am still being threatened, I am probably doing something wrong.
Either way, I like my PMAGs, I like my USGI mags and I like my D&H aluminum mags with the Magpul follower. I see no reason to change. |
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http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/11/25/shotgun-news-test-ar-15-magazines every picture tells a story.. Please what the following videos to see exactly how a plastic magazine fares against a USGI (Mil contract) magazine. High Speed Video with HK 416 full auto test. 
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It's true, glass re-enforced nylon just can not withstand the impact of a loaded mag being dropped onto concrete. That's why we don't use that as our material. You will not hear any excuses from us because our mag won't break. Quoted:
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We discussed this to death when it was released just like the "unscientific plastic magazine test" thread which had the exact same results. The usual suspecte came out with all the usual excuses:: "too small sample size, no special fixture to drop thye mags, blah, blah". The only magazine that wasn't broken on either test was the Lancer. (except when shot with the .50 cal.) It's true, glass re-enforced nylon just can not withstand the impact of a loaded mag being dropped onto concrete. That's why we don't use that as our material. You will not hear any excuses from us because our mag won't break. As shown in the video M3 PMags can survive a 6 foot loaded drop onto concert with no damage. If if damaged the magazine will continue to function normally. We do not get into technical discussions on open forums but the PMag materials are chosen specifically for a balance between tensile and impact strength. Softer material has better impact strength as the material flexes more to absorb the energy (Impact strength). The more ridged the material the more consistent the geometry under varying environmental conditions (tensile strength). The PMag has a reputation of reliability in extreme combat environments for over 7 years. While this is due to many factors including it's specific design geometry, this balance between impact and tensile strength is a key component. |
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Austria has been using plastic magazines in the AUG since the 1970's - it's not a new concept. And it works fine. By the way, that crack'ed PMags will still feed and function, once inserted into the rifle. Comparing an AUG mag to an AR mag is not quite apples to apples. The AUG mag has significantly thicker feedlips. Part of what makes the AR mag so challenging from a durability standpoint is the fact that the feedlips need to be so thin that they become a liability. |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Why I avoid plastic magazines.. (Page 1 of 3)
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