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Posted: 8/17/2012 2:27:43 PM EDT
[#1]
Originally Posted By oogabooga289:
If WI57 stuffed all the mags with tannerite and shot them, we would all still watch, we would all still be highly entertained, but somehow OP's pics of the collected shrapnel would cause a debate on which one held up the best. At the end of the day, OP is having fun, and we just have the pleasure of going along for the ride in high definition. ...and for free. |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 8/17/2012 2:30:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: SPQR-476]
[#2]
WI57,
Good stuff, man. Regardless of my previous points, it's still interesting testing, and I'm in no way trying to take away from your efforts. No matter what we do here behind closed doors, we're always interested in the perception created by informal testing results, customer service issues, returns, and word of mouth. We take note here, and it is a sincere desire to produce the best possible product across ALL usage environments that brought the MRev improvements and the M3. We're constantly testing, abusing, firing, heating, freezing, dropping, crushing, beating, and attempting to dissolve things in chemicals here, and the results are what you get in that Magpul package. So...if anyone has any issues, concerns, failures, successes, etc., we'd love to hear it. Hit us up at tech support: [email protected]. We'll even have someone hold our beer while we answer, 35mm. :-) |
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Posted: 8/17/2012 2:36:32 PM EDT
[#3]
Originally Posted By 35mm_Shooter:
Originally Posted By SPQR-476:
Originally Posted By KurtVF:
"Unscientific" testing is better than no testing or advertising hands down. Cause and effect is a valid and "scientific" method of reaching a conclusion. If anyone has any "scientiific" testing I've been looking for it for years but it doesn't seem to exist or is secret or most likely both(claims to exist but doesn't) "Field testing" or "combat testing" is as bad or worse than "unscientific "testing. All buzz words designed to cloud the real issue..... The issues with the unscientific testing are that the sample sizes are small, the controls for repeatability are loose, and although this test shows a great deal about chemical resistivity, extracting the results of the drops and firing tests to larger populations is problematic. if you do 10 axis drops on each mag, loaded, and also IN THE GUN, with a wire guide to provide as identical of impacts as possible, and also cold and hot––That's where you may see some different results in drops. Run a sample of mags through a few thousand rounds and document mag related failures. Do some side impacts. Although the ambient temp feed lip drop test is revealing of performance in that scenario, there are a lot of other failure modes that need to be considered. Mags that perform well on the feed lip tests don't always perform well in other metrics, or in the large sample firing tests, or in debris, or in salt spray tests, etc., etc.––The whole package needs to be considered. The damage possible through actual use and the requirements that we want from a mag are the bottom line, and certain mag designs and materials will excel in focused performance measures. Getting a mag to do all things well is more difficult. If you work in a chemical plant, drop your mags lips down a lot, and only intend to fire about 300 rounds out of the mag, this test is perfect. :-) That's in jest, but intended to illustrate that there are a lot of performance metrics to be considered, and that larger sample sizes may show different trends. So, you have to decide what you want from a magazine, and go from there. spirit of full disclosure, I previously worked for Brownells, and now I work for Magpul, and I would have that in my sig line or something, but I don't have an industry account set up here. I've seen a lot of magazines, both aluminum and polymer, destroyed in the name of gathering data, and I've seen hundreds of thousands of rounds fired in function testing. So far, everything out there has an achilles heel of some sort and many have strengths in certain attributes. Pick a mag based on what you desire in traits, but so far, I can assure you that all have some vulnerabilities. The strengths of the PMAG have been proven in professional use, and the sample size of available data, both scientific and anecdotal, is large. Other products have strengths––and weaknesses–– as well...and I will not come on and bash someone else's product or show pics of the aftermath of relevant testing to do so. I have no emotional attachment to the performance of a magazine...and I've seen the various strengths and weaknesses of many available designs under lots of different conditions. The GenM3 has been designed to address anything that has been perceived as a susceptibility in the MRev PMAG, to retain and improve upon the significant strengths of the MRev PMag, and the reason it has been so delayed, is that we're testing the crap out of it, alongside the original PMAG and others. When it's time, perhaps we'll share that test data. So why wasn't Magpul complaining about the unscientific "hold my beer while I drive over these mags with my truck" tests which portrayed the mags as being the ultimate mags? All the sudden they are picking apart the minutiae of this test  .
I understand the importance of controlled scientific tests. I've done DOE for gov agencies (incl NASA) as well as Industry. They are great if you have a large budget and resources. This test may not be air tight, but it will give you directional results. But one thing you are right on, choose the characteristics you are after and pay attention to the results. Magpul keeps promoting the chemical resistance of their mag. However you here are downplaying this test unless you "live in a chemical plant". I am less concerned about chemical resistance, I've never accidentally exposed my mags to harsh chemicals. I've also never accidentally drove over them with a car. I have however accidentally dropped them at "ambient temps" and I would imagine this is the most likely abuse that mags would be subjected to. And guess what? PMAGs always seem to perform poorly here, compared to other polymer mags. Ok, let me try to expound upon what Drake, Rich, and Duane have been saying. The only reason why we mention 'scientific' versus 'unscientific' is that this testing only uses a sample of one. Do the tests again and you may get different results. So the PMAG developed a crack, but it may or may not the next time, or the next thousand times. True scientific testing is all about repeatability and consistency of the tests with a large enough sample size to be able to make some educated conclusions. While tests like the OP's are fun (the main reason why we did our 'truck test' five years ago), they should not be used to make reliable conclusions about any particular brand. Regarding your comment above, we ship more polymer magazines than all other polymer AR mags combined. So when you hear of issues with ours it's usually due to the simple fact that they are the most common brand to be found. More mags = more visibility, but the percentage of defective product is actually VERY low. In fact, this may be the most telling test of them all- millions of PMAGs in service weathering 'real world' abuse and still performing admirably. Anyway, keep up the torture testing OP. I am enjoying the show. 
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Posted: 8/17/2012 2:37:59 PM EDT
[#4]
Originally Posted By oogabooga289:
If WI57 stuffed all the mags with tannerite and shot them, we would all still watch, we would all still be highly entertained, but somehow OP's pics of the collected shrapnel would cause a debate on which one held up the best. At the end of the day, OP is having fun, and we just have the pleasure of going along for the ride in high definition. Trust me, if I had a high speed camera it would be on my list of things to do. 
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Posted: 8/17/2012 3:06:22 PM EDT
[#5]
At the range again, I talked with the maintenance guy and he had no problem with what I was about to do.
Here are the mags. 
I noticed in the sun light the TangoDown mag has a crack in its follower. 
Loaded with IMI M855, all loaded just fine to full capacity. 
So here is the hillbilly drop test... this buckle... 
Releases this Bushmaster A2 H-bar. Rifle is UNLOADED, bolt forward, with a loaded mag in place. 
Troy mag ready to be dropped. 
Troy mag dropping. 
Troy mag did not like the drop test, base plate blew off, rounds all spilled out. 
Follower was left on the impact plate. 
The base pads flew into the back of my truck. 
Troy mag, should be able to be put back together though. 
TangoDown mag ready to be dropped. 
TangoDown mag dropping.
TangoDown survived. 
Pmag ready to be dropped. 
Pmag dropping.
Pmag survived. 
Lancer mag ready to be dropped. 
Lancer mag dropping.
Lancer mag survived. 
Tapco mag ready to drop. 
Tapco mag dropping.
Tapco mag survived. 
Tan follower GI mag ready to drop. 
Tan follower GI dropping.
Tan GI survived. 
But the front of the mag is dented in, and the floor plate is pushed back. 
Green follower GI mag ready to drop. 
Green follower GI dropping.
Green follower GI mag survived, and feeds... 
Green GI has a dent in the front. 
The impact plate is doing well, holding up to the mag hits. 
The results of being dropped. 
Troy blew the base off. 
Troy base plate plug doesn't want to go back into the floor plate. 
Both GI mags have dents in the front. 
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Posted: 8/17/2012 3:17:45 PM EDT
[#6]
Someone mentioned I should do some side impact tests... You read my mind.
I brought this today. My RRA PDS pistol. 
I have an idea... 
Troy mag, blast test. 
Troy mag blast test.
TangoDown mag, blast test. 
TangoDown mag blast test.
Pmag, blast test. 
Pmag blast test.
Lancer mag, blast test. 
Lancer mag blast test.
Tapco mag, blast test. 
Tapco mag blast test.
Tan GI mag, blast test. 
Tan GI blast test.
Green GI mag, blast test. 
Green GI mag blast test.
Recovered mags. 
Troy, burned. 
TangoDown, kinda burned. 
Pmag, kinda burned. 
Lancer, kinda burned. 
Tapco, kinda burned. 
Tan GI, blew the base plate off, dented. 
Green GI, dented. 
Loading to capacity, or trying to. 
Tan GI only holds 20 rounds. 
Green GI only holds 21 rounds. 
Will update after lunch with the next test... |
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Posted: 8/17/2012 3:26:50 PM EDT
[#7]
Taking the weekend off, so I'll just be letting these mags sit until Monday and take a break.
All arranged nicely to relax in the sun. 
But I have to make sure no bugs get to them. 
The green topped can already has a confirmed kill, from who knows when. 
Spraying down with the black top can. 
Flipping them over... 
The green top can. 
Since there is only one thief in the world, and everyone else is "just trying to get their stuff back..." I'll be keeping them up on the grill. 
Now everyone play nice until I'm back. Thanks for reading.
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MI, USA
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Posted: 8/17/2012 4:01:28 PM EDT
[#8]
You, sir, have exceeded (at least my) expectations. Brings a smile to my face seeing these test progressions (and a rifle hanging, about to be cut down like the condemned); not to mention the clever segues. Good shit.
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NV, USA
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Posted: 8/17/2012 6:08:09 PM EDT
[#9]
You really need a .50 Barrett for the side impact test.
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Posted: 8/17/2012 6:19:04 PM EDT
[#10]
Originally Posted By freewilly:
You really need a .50 Barrett for the side impact test. I know, from first-hand experience, that the muzzle break on a 50 BMG will cleanly cut off the legs of a Tango Down bipod with one shot. |
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AL, USA
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Posted: 8/17/2012 6:31:32 PM EDT
[#11]
Originally Posted By oogabooga289:
If WI57 stuffed all the mags with tannerite and shot them, we would all still watch, we would all still be highly entertained, but somehow OP's pics of the collected shrapnel would cause a debate on which one held up the best. At the end of the day, OP is having fun, and we just have the pleasure of going along for the ride in high definition. Yup and it is a very good ride! Thank you WI57! |
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WI, USA
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Posted: 8/17/2012 8:32:28 PM EDT
[#12]
With the talk of SHTF scenario I think you should weigh all the mags individually and then throw them through your chrono that you now have and record velocities. Then calculate kinetic energy to see which would be best if you had to throw them at the zombies. At least it could slow them down a little.
Oh yeah, make sure your chrono is the correct distance away when you release from your hand or scientific device. wouldn't want a false reading;) Check ya monday. |
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Posted: 8/17/2012 10:07:05 PM EDT
[#13]
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Posted: 8/17/2012 10:46:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: dpmmn]
[#14]
Interesting thread. <Edited................save the pic for GD..........dpmmn> |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 8/17/2012 11:43:50 PM EDT
[#15]
Originally Posted By RyJones:
Originally Posted By freewilly:
You really need a .50 Barrett for the side impact test. I know, from first-hand experience, that the muzzle break on a 50 BMG will cleanly cut off the legs of a Tango Down bipod with one shot. And crack the windshield on a Chevy truck parked a mite too close! Great for side mag fragging zombies! 
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TX, USA
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Posted: 8/17/2012 11:49:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: lazyengineer]
[#16]
WI57! Keep up the good work! And no, you cant borrow any of my stuff - ever.
Seriously, this is better scientific practice and documentation than about 95% of the professional research and development work I encounter in my real R&D vocation. As to this being "unscientific", it is very much so scientific. The trick is repeatable controlled test conditions, and good documentation. A few suggestions for improvement (at your discretion of course!) What it is, is limited sample size. That doesn't negate the test or results, since they were conducted under defendable repeatable conditions (though, see below). Some of test practices could be challenged. Specifically, once a mag becomes damaged, it's weakened, and more susceptible to fail further tests. Whereas most operators would discard the mag, before likely encountering the next test. So basically, a new magazine should be used for subsequent tests once it's representative failed, along side the damaged one if desired. Though, MagPul, being the most obvious voice to do the challenging, is having their product actually shine. For a damaged magazine, it's performing pretty damned good! In my opinion, the most questionable test was the initial drop test (which alas, was also the most important). Not that I disagree with the failure results - let's not kid ourselves. But that it wasn't solidly repeatable, since angle, etc wasn't really controlled. Afterall, did the non-failures just not hit the angle just so? WI57, (showing the marks of a graduate student that a professor would backstab their best friend for), corrected his methodology for other tests, finally perfecting it with the excellent buckle test design. Seriously, high marks! You did go back and repeatedly drop the other mags on the lips again, to see if they just got lucky on the one hit. This was important. Most of the ones that survived, continued to survive. As to MagPul - still a major fan. Still way better than a GI mag. And I'm impressed at the function reliability even with a damaged magazine! Aaaannndd, still disappointed that it's got a big assed crack from its first drop. Sounds like you are addressing this in your next revision, which sounds about right - there's a reason I like you guys. If I could request one test of WI57, it would be to repeat the mag-lip drop test in a more standardized approach, using a very large number of drops and slightly adjusted impact angles to give a broader spectrum. Say 5 drops each at a spectrum of angles (in both axis') to total 100 or so drops. With new magazines of each brand. To me, the real question isn't does the PMag always break, so much as do the other's break under that abuse too, and these just got lucky because they never landed the same way the PMag did? Oh, and by the way, I particularly like how you did the side-impact test. Not that necessarily this type of impact is probable, but that it was such an excellent out-of-the-box thought on how to make an extremely repeatable side impact abuse test, with that much force, with such a simple design approach. Heck, I probably would have come up with some Rube-Goldberg reference weight drop test from a standard height. I like your approach way better. |
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USA
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Posted: 8/18/2012 12:10:20 AM EDT
[#17]
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Posted: 8/18/2012 12:14:53 AM EDT
[#18]
Fortier did the drop test using a chute so that the different mags all landed the same on the feed lips. The PMAG cracked while the Lancer suffered almost no damage. Same as here.
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Posted: 8/18/2012 1:50:56 AM EDT
[#19]
This is awesome, still...
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PA, USA
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Posted: 8/18/2012 6:07:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Suburban]
[#20]
I wonder what the chemicals would do to the rubber pull-tab thingy that comes with the Troy mag - the part that was set aside on day one.
The lockplate not clicking into place right away after reassembly is kinda normal. If you push down on the follower, or just load the magazine, it will pop back into place. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 8/18/2012 10:59:03 AM EDT
[#21]
WOW!! I am very impressed with this Unscientific mag test.
I want to see you microwave them next.  I imagine that the Lancer will have the most impressive video.
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Posted: 8/18/2012 12:09:05 PM EDT
[#22]
Dude you are INSANE! and i love it. Keep up the good work!
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Posted: 8/18/2012 2:37:17 PM EDT
[#23]
Give them an acid bath! Dunk them in white vinegar. It will get rid of all that nasty rust too!
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Posted: 8/18/2012 3:43:33 PM EDT
[#24]
Great review, interesting to see side by side comparisons. How about a few rapid temperature change tests? Also, how about tumbling them in a bucket of sand (or soaking them in a bucket of water with a load of sand in it) and then charging them and shooting them?
Keep it up!
Also... Originally Posted By SPQR-476:
So...if anyone has any issues, concerns, failures, successes, etc., we'd love to hear it. Hit us up at tech support: [email protected]. We'll even have someone hold our beer while we answer, 35mm. :-) I have an issue, concern and failure - namely not being able to order stuff from Magpul from the UK! And we're not talking about restricted parts here; but also stickers, shirts etc etc. Now, I've got several stocks, grips, fore-ends and over a dozen P-Mags with ranger plates; so how about a goodie bag for a Magpul fan/customer from the UK!
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Posted: 8/18/2012 7:54:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Berserkr556]
[#25]
I still think you should shoot each mag and then function test. Check out the video on the Troy site where he shoots the Troy BattleMag with an AK. After 6 hits the mag still functions. It only held 20 or 23 rounds but it functioned. Once again excellent post and thanks for your time and effort.
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Posted: 8/19/2012 6:50:03 PM EDT
[#26]
I have to mention again how much I am enjoying this. The engineer in me is impressed with the documentation, the gun guy in me enjoys the content, and overall I just like your sense of humor. Thanks again for doing this.
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Posted: 8/19/2012 7:48:23 PM EDT
[#27]
OK, back and now its time to check on the mags.
Right where I left them. 
The lancer is the only one showing any kind of change, a bit of rust. 
Flipping them over reveals that this side laid down in the bug spray all weekend. 
And to all of you who didn't believe I was actually trying to protect the mags from bugs...
Curiously, the Lancer on this side shows no rust. 
So nothing changed that I can see, the mags still stink of bug spray. 
And since it was mentioned to try brakleen, that's what I'll remove the residual bug crap with. 
Green can, says OK on some plastics... 
So lets drench them. 
Green can of brakleen, didn't do squat. 
Nothing changed. 
Red can, says stay away from plastics... 
Lets spray them and see what happens. 
Annnnd, I'm at a loss. Everyone says red can brakleen is like "lava in a can" to plastics... 
So far brakleen, had zero effect on the mags. All it did was clean the oils and crap off them. I'll have to hit the range again tomorrow and see how they do. |
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Posted: 8/19/2012 7:50:05 PM EDT
[#28]
Originally Posted By freewilly:
You really need a .50 Barrett for the side impact test. Checking into a Barrett for some specific testing...
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Posted: 8/19/2012 7:53:11 PM EDT
[#29]
Originally Posted By Berserkr556:
I still think you should shoot each mag and then function test. Check out the video on the Troy site where he shoots the Troy BattleMag with an AK. After 6 hits the mag still functions. It only held 20 or 23 rounds but it functioned. Once again excellent post and thanks for your time and effort. I will shoot them, but I was saving something like that for towards the end.
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Posted: 8/19/2012 8:25:45 PM EDT
[#30]
I talked with my .50 last night and it said its up for the challenge. I do suggest doing whatever needs to be tested with that pmag prior to the .50 test though:)
Lol Should be fun!
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Posted: 8/19/2012 8:31:07 PM EDT
[#31]
Excellent...
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Posted: 8/19/2012 9:32:44 PM EDT
[#32]
That Red CRC is cancer in a can
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Posted: 8/19/2012 10:09:11 PM EDT
[#33]
WI57 - Outstanding! Like many others have said, I like the challenging testing methods and on-the-fly additions. Better documentation than from some third party testing labs I've dealt with, should submit to ASTM for standardization.
Any plans for a round of winter testing? I'll be happy to chip in for testing supplies. Keep up the good work! |
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Posted: 8/19/2012 10:30:39 PM EDT
[#34]
i cannot tell you how much joy this brings me.
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Posted: 8/19/2012 11:44:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: dpmmn]
[#35]
<Save this type of commentary for GD..............dpmmn>
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Posted: 8/20/2012 1:27:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: dpmmn]
[#36]
<Save this type of commentary for GD..............dpmmn> |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 8/20/2012 11:54:48 AM EDT
[#37]
A suggestion, if I may, although I'm not sure how I'd rig up the test...
Something to simulate having the mag in a mag pouch, on a chest rig/body armor, with an ESAPI plate behind it, and then belly-flopped on like the wearer is hitting the dirt when getting shot at. Short of actually doing it (which would get rough on the tester pretty quick) I'm not sure how I'd set that test up though. |
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USA
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Posted: 8/20/2012 12:07:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: CSFIREARMS]
[#38]
Methyl ethyl ketone or perchloroethylene.
Been in the plastics industry for 20 years and Perc will make ABS brittle and shatter like glass. MEK makes certain plastics very soft. CSF |
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Posted: 8/20/2012 12:49:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Jdude]
[#39]
Originally Posted By CSFIREARMS:
Methyl ethyl ketone or perchloroethylene. Been in the plastics industry for 20 years and Perc will make ABS brittle and shatter like glass. MEK makes certain plastics very soft. CSF best joke ever Oops, not GD.
A way to repeatably simulate a person landing in the prone on his magazines is to lay the magazines flat on concrete and drop that big metal plate on them. |
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Posted: 8/20/2012 8:50:03 PM EDT
[#40]
Didn't have a lot of time tonight, so I didn't get much shooting in.
Mags all lined up. 
This is the side that will be hit with the blast. 
Just to show what happens this close to the brake... 
Potato impact test, potato didn't make it.
Gone. 
Splattered all over the pistol. 
Troy impact test. 
TangoDown impact test. 
Pmag impact test. 
Lancer impact test. 
Tapco impact test. 
Tan GI impact test. 
Green GI impact test. 
The mags, they got a little burned, but didn't crack/shatter.. 
Troy, nothing. 
TangoDown, nothing. 
Pmag, nothing. 
Lancer, nothing. 
Tapco, nothing. 
Tan GI, dented. 
Green GI, dented. 
Green GI lost its floor plate. 
And this was the biggest chunk of potato I could find... 
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Posted: 8/20/2012 8:59:21 PM EDT
[#41]
Originally Posted By Belisarius_33:
WI57 - Outstanding! Like many others have said, I like the challenging testing methods and on-the-fly additions. Better documentation than from some third party testing labs I've dealt with, should submit to ASTM for standardization.
Any plans for a round of winter testing? I'll be happy to chip in for testing supplies. Keep up the good work! Thank you, this has been fun so far. Except today when I got sprayed by potato juice.
I am looking forward to doing cold weather testing. But I'll have to wait a while on that. Originally Posted By Langenator:
A suggestion, if I may, although I'm not sure how I'd rig up the test... Something to simulate having the mag in a mag pouch, on a chest rig/body armor, with an ESAPI plate behind it, and then belly-flopped on like the wearer is hitting the dirt when getting shot at. Short of actually doing it (which would get rough on the tester pretty quick) I'm not sure how I'd set that test up though. I do have a LBV plan in mind, I am planning a kind of crush test while they are in a vest.
Originally Posted By CSFIREARMS:
Methyl ethyl ketone or perchloroethylene. Been in the plastics industry for 20 years and Perc will make ABS brittle and shatter like glass. MEK makes certain plastics very soft. CSF I will do that at the end probably, I want to see how far they will go before I turn them into putty. Originally Posted By Jdude:
A way to repeatably simulate a person landing in the prone on his magazines is to lay the magazines flat on concrete and drop that big metal plate on them. That's the plan for one test, I'll see how that goes. |
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DE, USA
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Posted: 8/20/2012 10:05:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: k80clay]
[#42]
Pull them out of a freezer, then drop your plate on them.....
These going to end up on the EE in a few days?
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 8/21/2012 12:41:09 AM EDT
[#43]
Originally Posted By k80clay:
Pull them out of a freezer, then drop your plate on them..... These going to end up on the EE in a few days?
Ice can't be cold enough, gotta go with dry ice
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Posted: 8/21/2012 2:29:48 AM EDT
[#44]
Originally Posted By Mrmaigo:
Originally Posted By k80clay:
Pull them out of a freezer, then drop your plate on them..... These going to end up on the EE in a few days?
Ice can't be cold enough, gotta go with dry ice dry ice + ethanol |
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Posted: 8/21/2012 4:06:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: hawzwood]
[#45]
Originally Posted By hawzwood: <Save this type of commentary for GD..............dpmmn> <nevermind> |
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USA
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Posted: 8/21/2012 6:24:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: ColonelPanic]
[#46]
Originally Posted By WI57:
Originally Posted By SPQR-476:
<snip>Chief cook and bottle washer, some days.
Duane Part time dishwasher you say...? Then this is relevent to your interests. Absolutely brilliant. Retorts like that don't come from dull-witted individuals.... And thanks for this thread. Anyone confusing this with a thorough and scientific, double blinded test has lost all common sense and faith in the intelligence of others. Of course there are numerous control and sample size issues with this testing (as you and others have acknowledged time and again), but at the end of the day, you put forth a wonderful and creative attempt at real world type scenarios. I'll be sure to only drop my PMags in a 'scientific' way from now on because your 'unscientific' way of dropping them is clearly not covered by any warranty. 
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Posted: 8/21/2012 6:51:06 AM EDT
[#47]
Originally Posted By ColonelPanic:
. I'll be sure to only drop my PMags in a 'scientific' way from now on because your 'unscientific' way of dropping them is clearly not covered by any warranty. I was about to post something very similar. Must I build a fixture to shoot my AR so that it is consistent every time? Magpul's response to this thread is a little .
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Posted: 8/21/2012 7:34:19 AM EDT
[#48]
Originally Posted By k80clay:
Pull them out of a freezer, then drop your plate on them..... These going to end up on the EE in a few days?
I am looking for a source for dry ice, I'll see what I can find. I wasn't planning on EE'ing these, I highly doubt anybody would even want them when I'm done. |
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Posted: 8/21/2012 9:59:09 AM EDT
[#49]
Originally Posted By bassist:
Originally Posted By ColonelPanic:
. I'll be sure to only drop my PMags in a 'scientific' way from now on because your 'unscientific' way of dropping them is clearly not covered by any warranty. I was about to post something very similar. Must I build a fixture to shoot my AR so that it is consistent every time? Magpul's response to this thread is a little .No, this testing is great! One should always try to satisfy their own curiosities. My main point is that the results of these tests should be taken with a grain of salt due to the sample size being only one (1).
Regarding the comment, "... because your 'unscientific' way of dropping them is clearly not covered by any warranty", if you ever break a PMAG in the field for any reason we'll replace it. Period. |
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Posted: 8/21/2012 10:52:52 AM EDT
[#50]
Originally Posted By Justin-Beard:
Originally Posted By bassist:
Originally Posted By ColonelPanic:
. I'll be sure to only drop my PMags in a 'scientific' way from now on because your 'unscientific' way of dropping them is clearly not covered by any warranty. I was about to post something very similar. Must I build a fixture to shoot my AR so that it is consistent every time? Magpul's response to this thread is a little .No, this testing is great! One should always try to satisfy their own curiosities. My main point is that the results of these tests should be taken with a grain of salt due to the sample size being only one (1).
Regarding the comment, "... because your 'unscientific' way of dropping them is clearly not covered by any warranty", if you ever break a PMAG in the field for any reason we'll replace it. Period. To be truly scientific, you would need a sample size of almost 400 for a 95% confidence level and 5% margin of error. When you guys get to doing these tests with all that R&D you talk about, please share. As per your previous comment of there being cracks because there are so many PMAGs out there, this is flawed because I was referring to tests where only 1 mag of each type. In these tests (Fortier's, this one, various other tests on the net, etc...), the PMAG's feed lips consistently crack before mags like the Lancer fail. |
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