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Posted: 6/12/2009 4:09:00 PM EDT
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Just got 5 new Pmag 20s dated 01/09 and used them this past weekend. Alll failed to feed. Even manually cycling wouldn't feed a round until I smacked the bottom well and good. After that, no failures. I have M Pmags and a bunch of USGIs with zero issues.
The failures occurred in my 6920. In all of my years handling this platform, I have never had any problems w/ magazines in any of my rifles nor the Government's. I have scoured everywhere, and it seems like most feed problems happened w/ Pmags dated 03/07 or so. Will just "breaking in" the mags do it, or am I doing something wrong? add: I am using Q3131 and PPU SS109. |
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Think I found the problem.
The black magazine follower does not go down uniformly. The back end can be depressed as much as 1/2 inch instead of going down level. Hence, the bolt is not catching the casing as it closes, or digs into the case as it closes and jams. I guess the reason why the ammo feeds after I smack the sh*t out of the bottom is the settling / leveling of the ammo and follower. Tested w/ the M mags (gray follower) = no problemo Same thing w/ USGI. Will talk to Magpul 
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Quoted: Think I found the problem. The black magazine follower does not go down uniformly. The back end can be depressed as much as 1/2 inch instead of going down level. Hence, the bolt is not catching the casing as it closes, or digs into the case as it closes and jams. 20rd magazine followers are not the same anti-tilt design as the 30's. USGI and other straight 20's flop around, too. Being able to manually push in the back of the follower has nothing to do with failures to feed. What you've said- bolt is riding over the cartridges, everything works fine after wacking the bottom of the mag- indicates the mags were not seated properly to begin with. |
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Quoted:
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Think I found the problem. The black magazine follower does not go down uniformly. The back end can be depressed as much as 1/2 inch instead of going down level. Hence, the bolt is not catching the casing as it closes, or digs into the case as it closes and jams. 20rd magazine followers are not the same anti-tilt design as the 30's. USGI and other straight 20's flop around, too. Being able to manually push in the back of the follower has nothing to do with failures to feed. What you've said- bolt is riding over the cartridges, everything works fine after wacking the bottom of the mag- indicates the mags were not seated properly to begin with. After looking around, it does look like the 20s are indeed different than the 30s. Why does Magpul do this? Just for grins, I swapped the followers around, and the 20 works like a champ! Only now, my 30 is sad. Who sells the followers only? As far as the bolt riding over the ammo, the primer end is below the bullet end, or should I say, not in optimal position to be ripped from the magazine. I can physically depress the rim down a 1/4" and the ammo will remain like this and not level out. Since the rounds are tilted upward, the bolt passes the lip and gouges / dents/ severely scrapes the cartridge. Sometimes the bolt grabs the case enough to try to shove it into the chamber causing a jam. "I guess the reason why the ammo feeds after I smack the sh*t out of the bottom is the settling / leveling of the ammo and follower." Are all Pmags like this? If that is the way that the 20s operate, I'd rather keep the GI mags. I want to remain "Magpul" and rectify this problem. I'm not cazy. Just ask my dog. What's wrong with this picture? 
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The straight 20s work differently than the curved 30s.
In the straight 20s the body is straight anf the curvature of the round stack is compensated by the follower movement. In the 30s the follower non tilt but the curved body is compensating for the taper of the round stack. In any case give jbeard@ magpul.com an email and he will see to it that you get some mags that work. |
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In any case give jbeard@ magpul.com an email and he will see to it that you get some mags that work. Roger Roger. Justin rx'd my email, will get back Monday due to weekend. I heard that they are problem solvers. Will post followup. Thanks all. ps. Talked w/ others and they say something like, "Funny I should mention this....." |
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In any case give jbeard@ magpul.com an email and he will see to it that you get some mags that work. Roger Roger. Justin rx'd my email, will get back Monday due to weekend. I heard that they are problem solvers. Will post followup. Thanks all. ps. Talked w/ others and they say something like, "Funny I should mention this....." Actually the PMag20 has an even lower return rate than the already low numbers we have from the PMag30. |
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My 20 rd Pmags look like the picture with the rounds tilting up sometimes. I just push down and they seat correctly. I've never had a problem with feeding. Hmmmmm. Yeah, never noticed before. Guess that I'll just have to remember this before inserting the mag. As I mentioned, after a good smack, no problems. Quoted:
In the straight 20s the body is straight anf the curvature of the round stack is compensated by the follower movement. I'm not too smart, guess Magpul knows what they're doing /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// Update: Justin replied promptly and pretty much described what y'all said. He also offered to replace the mags, but I think that I need to be more conscientious. Never too old to learn..... |
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In any case give jbeard@ magpul.com an email and he will see to it that you get some mags that work. Roger Roger. Justin rx'd my email, will get back Monday due to weekend. I heard that they are problem solvers. Will post followup. Thanks all. ps. Talked w/ others and they say something like, "Funny I should mention this....." That is what finger jammer say for sure. If the 20 was clear folks would understand it and not freak out. |
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+1 If you line up 20 rounds side to side, they curve because of the slight taper to the casing, tryin to stick somethin that wants to curve in something that's straight can be problematic
easy solution...load them up, then knock the back(spine) of the mag against your shin, knee, leg, wherever you feel comfortable...this has always fixed any tilt issue with my mags keeblerelf |
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easy solution...load them up, then knock the back(spine) of the mag against your shin, knee, leg, wherever you feel comfortable...this has always fixed any tilt issue with my mags Thanx, but of habit, I have been doing this for over 30 years.... Will be more conscientious and do like this..... Quoted:
My 20 rd Pmags look like the picture with the rounds tilting up sometimes. I just push down and they seat correctly. I've never had a problem with feeding. |
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Sorry, but this is NO WAY okay.
I spent several range sessions fretting over mag seating, problems with bolt, problems with an individual mag; then I discover that every 20rounder I tried would fail. I finally caught sight of the round pointing up at an angle. I sat with colt and NHTMG 20rounders, and could not make them do the same thing. You can tip them up, but they spring back to proper position. If a mag allows a round to stay in an unworkable position, then there is something wrong with the design. Yes, a good rap on the helmet is a good idea anyway, but the Pmag 20 rounders are not gtg imo. I do not want to pay premium for a product that adds another layer of insecurity to worry about in a tactical reload. btw my vendor gave me a full refund; I will wait til the issue is fixed. eta Lamarbrog look at the pics |
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Quoted:
Sorry, but this is NO WAY okay. I spent several range sessions fretting over mag seating, problems with bolt, problems with an individual mag; then I discover that every 20rounder I tried would fail. I finally caught sight of the round pointing up at an angle. I sat with colt and NHTMG 20rounders, and could not make them do the same thing. You can tip them up, but they spring back to proper position. If a mag allows a round to stay in an unworkable position, then there is something wrong with the design. Glad to hear that I'm not the only "crazy" one out there. I also tested w/ Colt and other GI mags, while they may tilt a smidge, they always recover and I have never had a failure. These 20s are for range use only, I will not depend on them for my life. If I follow the above procedures and manage to get the first two off, the rest should follow..... My Ms will be my trusty goto and be at the ready. I love the Ms - the M version magazines WORK! [ETA: I'm sure that Forces greater than me utilize these mags, and I'm sure if there was an issue, more would know? ] Currently, there isn't a mod in the works, but I will be hopeful that someday, I could benefit. Should get some range-time tomorrow, will know more later...... [6/19. Used 5 different test subjects involving various ARs, rounds, operators. 3/5 functioned without failure, 1 failed to feed, the other: the last 2 rounds didn't feed and he kept removing the magazine. I shot 120 rounds, 2 different Colt ARs, my usual ammo. I just had one issue - this was without utilizing the smack in the butt. The rest functioned by utilizing the dress-right-dress ritual.] Troy out. |
| In a straight mag, with the rear of the cartridge being thicker than the front, the rear of the round should sit higher than the front. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but the photo shows the opposite. It looks like something is causing the rear of that follower to hang up. Try running the follower slowly up through the mag body to see if or where it sticks. Or, take the easy way out and just return them. Good luck. |
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Return them since Magpul has offered to exchange them. I don't think this is typical for 20-rd PMags. Like others already noted, I have several 30 and 20 rounders and they all feed fine, and looking at the 20-rdr in my HD AR the top cartridge is perfectly level, not tilted. I slap all my mags hard going into the magwell to ensure firm seating: USGI, SS, PMag. And I pull down on them to make sure they aren't just hanging in partially. But that should have nothing to do with the cartridges being level in the mag. Return them. PMags are better than that. May have been a bad day for plastic or something. Out of about 40 Pmags I haven't had a feeding problem. |
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Shot 80 rounds yesterday
Smacked them into the magwell No problems edit 7/12: Shot 100 rounds PPU SS109, mags loaded from 19 - 20 each. Paid special attention to the stack, no smacking involved. Inserted mags normally: no issues and mags functioned fine. I am feeling better about these puppies.... |
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