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Posted: 6/8/2007 7:23:46 AM EDT
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I'm in need to 50 mags and thinking I will get a bunch of DH mags with the teflon coating. I hear the term Marlube with CP's. Just what is Marlube and whats the good and bad. Is it just a type of paint that can easily scratch when the mag is bumped or dropped? Will the teflon be a better, more durable coating than Marlube (whatever that is)? |
Most definitely. |
Yes, and Yes. It is technically a paint? Probably not, but the stuff scratchs right off as though it was. Teflon will hold up much better. Although like all things, people will argue about this topic ;) |
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Yes, and Yes. It is technically a paint? Probably not, but the stuff scratches right off as though it was. Teflon will hold up much better. Although like all things, people will argue about this topic ;) I guess I have had my fill with teflon. Can anyone tell me, what is the PTFE content in the coating that is so called "teflon"? This is not a bash or anything else on my competitor, just an honest question that needs to be answered and discussed. Anyone??? Larry C Products |
The adhesion of the coating and durability is what I am more concerned with. I have not lost any noticable amount of coating from the black teflon mags I have after a good bit of use. |
+1 The teflon coated D&H mags just stay looking new, after a whole lot of use. No scratches, no chips, etc. Marlube coated mags look like crap after a very short amount of use (based on my experince) They get scratched down to what looks like bare metal. In general (all typical baised, emotional laden, bickering aside) they both work ok. I'd suggest the following: Buy one of each yourself, see how they work for you... in your rifle. Use them both for a little while, and then make up your own mind which you like better. |
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It is technically a paint? Probably not, but the stuff scratchs right off as though it was. Teflon will hold up much better. Although like all things, people will argue about this topic ;) Mar-lube is not a paint. It is a blended moly coat, same as the grey military spec moly coat. If you have bought a C Products grey teflon magazine, you purchased the only real teflon coated magazine made. Larry C Products |
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I just ordered 2 more SS bodies that I will put CMMG coiled springs and metal followere into. 4 more CProducts Teflon aluminium mags. I've experimented with everything and I think the CProducts Stainless mag with the CMMG springs are better then the HK and if you can afford them for 4 or 5 go to war mags do it. Personally when the MarLube wears I will coat them with Brownells Tuf Coat and they will wear forever. |
Part of the equation is who is purchasing mags and for what reason. If Uncle Sam is buying the mags I use, I don't care what they look like, or what coating is used It just has to work when I need it to. Then you have the other purchasers. Guys like myself and many on this and other forums. I'm not in combat anymore, so Uncle is not buying the mags I use, I am. Since it is my money I still want a product that's going to work but now I also want something that has some cosmetic durability. Whether it's at the range, a match shoot, or just plinking with my buds, like many others I take pride in my weapons both mechanically and cosmetically. If teflon holds up better, then that's where I want to spend my money. You say you have had you "fill with teflon". Does this mean you're giving up on the project? Last I read somewhere, you were looking at a combination of marlube and teflon. No longer a valid idea? Maybe you've made the decision that teflon mags are a waste of your time due to the environmental issues of CT and the need to use a water based product? Maybe this segemet of the market is not as important to you. Those are obviously business decsions that owners need to make. I would only hope that if and when that decision is made you would make some kind of formal announcement. This way those of us who have loyally stood by waiting patiently for your teflon product can make a decision as to where to spend our money. |
So are you saying that D&H is lying? http://www.44mag.com/prodinfo.asp?number=DH30B "Brand new mil-spec M16/AR15 30rd aluminum mags with black teflon finish and green followers. Made by D&H (Company formerly named Labelle)." Wouldn't someone, somewhere, have already caused D&H some problems if the mags they sell as "teflon coated" weren't really coated in teflon? To be officially claiming that 'you make the only teflon coated magazines' seems odd. |
| I just took a good look at my D&H Teflon and my CProducts Teflon. I like both of them. The D&H is slicker the CProducts is a bit more gritty. I like both and will buy by price. But, I admit that I plan to have 3 SS mags with CMMG springs and followers in each Tactical kit. |
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So are you saying that D&H is lying? http://www.44mag.com/prodinfo.asp?number=DH30B "Brand new mil-spec M16/AR15 30rd aluminum mags with black teflon finish and green followers. Made by D&H (Company formerly named Labelle)." Wouldn't someone, somewhere, have already caused D&H some problems if the mags they sell as "teflon coated" weren't really coated in teflon? To be officially claiming that 'you make the only teflon coated magazines' seems odd. I am not calling anyone a liar. Call D&H and ask them for the PTFE content in their teflon coating. Larry C Products |
Maybe you're not calling them a liar, but it sure seems to me like you are insinuating that they are liars by claiming you make the only REAL teflon coated mags, ergo D&H must be FAKE. They advertise their mags as teflon coated, so it seems to me (in my opinion) that by calling their teflon coating "fake" you are in effect calling them liars. Obviously you think you have some 1st hand knowledge about the D&H coating, so why not spill the beans. Are you saying that their mag coating has zero PTFE? Are you saying it has a small % of PTFE? Are you saying that you use genuine DuPont Teflon, whereas D&H uses some "generic" brand of Polytetrafluoroethylene? Feel free to tell me again to just call D&H myself. Frankly it is not worth my time to call D&H and try to pry out information about their propriatary coating, when as a user I can simply tell from experince that it holds up better than anything else on the market. You're the one calling their stuff fake, so the onus is on you, imho, to back up your claim. And besides, I doubt they'd answer that kind of question posed by some guy cold calling them. I don't expect them to do that, or you to do that about your proprietary mag coating. And I say again, D&H supplies mags to the military (both the U.S. and Israeli). they supply to other U.S. fed departments, as well as rifle manufacuters afaik. All their advertising says Teflon coating. If they do not manufatcure 'real' teflon coated mags I suspect it would have caused major problems with their customers. And State AGs would have something to say about their advertising practices. And the rifle manufacturers that have shipped D&H mags with their new product would probably be a bit pissed at being 'duped' by fake teflon coating. Your claim that only CP sells real teflon mags comes across as just sour grapes. Feel free to back up your statement with facts, rather than insinuations and half-spoken allegations. And please, don't ask me to try and validate what seems like a baised and bitter accusation on your part. I'll simply take the D&H advertising at face value. If you say you're the only real one, then by definition all others must be fake. So please, tell me exactly why you make that claim, I'm genuinely very curious. |
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And besides, I doubt they'd answer that kind of question posed by some guy cold calling them. I don't expect them to do that, or you to do that about your proprietary mag coating. And I say again, D&H supplies mags to the military (both the U.S. and Israeli). they supply to other U.S. fed departments, as well as rifle manufacuters afaik. All their advertising says Teflon coating. If they do not manufatcure 'real' teflon coated mags I suspect it would have caused major problems with their customers. And State AGs would have something to say about their advertising practices. And the rifle manufacturers that have shipped D&H mags with their new product would probably be a bit pissed at being 'duped' by fake teflon coating. Your claim that only CP sells real teflon mags comes across as just sour grapes. Feel free to back up your statement with facts, rather than insinuations and half-spoken allegations. And please, don't ask me to try and validate what seems like a baised and bitter accusation on your part. I'll simply take the D&H advertising at face value. If you say you're the only real one, then by definition all others must be fake. So please, tell me exactly why you make that claim, I'm genuinely very curious. First of all, if you called me out of the cold I would answer your question. Second of all D&H does not have a US military contract but can supply to military units off contract as we do. I don't believe D&H is trying to "dupe" anyone. I just wanted to know if anyone purchasing teflon coated magazines knew exactly what that is. It is not sour grapes or anything like that. We produce 20,000 magazines a week and are gearing towards more so I am not trying to start a war with D&H. As a matter of fact, I have a lot of respect for them. By definition I believe we make a true teflon coating. Calling D&H's a fake were your words. This forum is to discuss specific technical subjects. So why can't I raise this question? Larry c Products |
You also made a statement/claim that CP manufacturers the only "REAL" teflon magazines without any information to back it up. So spill the beans rather than leave it as some snarky sounding insinuation that every one else makes fake ones. I can only guess it has something to do with PTFE content. Unless you can add some substance to your claim, I'll just keep believing the D&H advertising (and my empirical / anecdotal evidence). |
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So spill the beans rather than leave it as some snarky sounding insinuation that every one else makes fake ones. I can only guess it has something to do with PTFE content. Unless you can add some substance to your claim, I'll just keep believing the D&H advertising (and my empirical / anecdotal evidence). I apologize if I came off sounding like a snarky insinuation, that was not my intent. Is it wrong for me to start a discussion on teflon? Am I wrong in asking specific questions, that by the way, I do not know the answer to. I would spill the beans, but I do not know the specific answer, that's why I am asking the question. Again you use the word fake, I never said that. Please keep believing the advertisement, I am not trying to make you not buy from D&H or call them liars or any other thing you might think. I just asked a simple question. If someone here posted the same question to C Products I certainly would give a specific answer concerning my product. Larry C Products |
Which is really all that is required... a decent coating that stays put and doesn't look like crap after a few trips in and out of a magwell. Debating the lubricating qualities of a magazine coating is almost irrelevant as far as the outside of the magazine goes. IMHO... Moly is irrelevant Teflon is irrelevant color, corrosion protection and durability of the finish are relevant |
No need to apologize, we're just discussing things. if I appear abrasive I don't mean to, I'm just trying to figure out exactly what you mean. Yes, I used the word fake... because you used the word 'real.' You claimed you made the only "real" teflon mag, that means, by definition, you are saying that all other teflon mags are fake. This is logic 101 (literally). It's been a while since I learned TL, but it is something like this iirc: A = CP mags B = D&H mags Premise: fake is the antonym of real. A is the only mag with real Teflon coating. B is not A. Therefore B does not have real Teflon coating. If something isn't real, then it is fake. Therefore B is fake. It's like me saying that I own the worlds only real Rolex. There's 2 ways I can say that. 1) I own the worlds only real Rolex. 2) All the Rolexs in the world are fake, except mine. Those two sentences are functionally identical. They express the same idea, the same allegation/assertion... just like how you said you make the only real teflon coated mag. That is identical to saying that all the others are fake (identical in regards to logic). So while I agree you did not use the word fake, I disagree that you did not call other teflon coatings fake, since you claimed yours is the only real one. At least what it looks like you did to me anyways. I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, honest. I am just explaining my understanding of what you actually wrote. So I am curious why you think your teflon coating is the only real one and others are fake? Is that allegation based on actual knowledge, or just a WAG? |
Geez, and I thought I like to repeat myself.  Why don't you explain it a dozen more times just in case Larry doesn't know what you are talking about.
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Well, one shouldn't make wild ass claims without backing them up. He essentially claims D&H are't teflon coated. I want to know what makes him say that. Unless he can back up what he says, then I'd guess that most likely it's coming from bitterness. But instead of answering my question he plays coy, trying to say that he never called their teflon coating into 'question.'
Not meant to bash the competitors? You refer to their mags as having "so called teflon," and that YOU make "the only real teflon" (which means others are fake) -- and yet you say you aren't bashing them. Sure seems like unfounded bashing to me, and pot stirring, rumor spreading, FUD spreading, etc. You go on to directly call into question the PTFE content of the D&H coating. FUD spreading = trying to sow fear, uncertainty and doubt. Good job at trying to insinuate that they have a problem with their stuff without offering anything to back it up, at least imho that what it seems you're doing. BTW, I like how you backpeddled from "we make the only real teflon coating" to "we make a true teflon coating" That first sentence necessarily means all other are fake, the second merely implies it (given context). Unless Larry can actually explain why he's making these rather outlandish claims I'll leave this thread alone. I can't really add anything else, since he's added nothing of substance. And ar15gnocchi, I only explained it as many times as Larry tried to insinuate D&H has doesn't have real teflon coating, so we're even ;) And I find it annoying when folks try to spread FUD, so yeah I'll call them on it when I think I see it. As someone else stated on this thread:
And I can just +1 to that. Pretty much tells me all I need to know about the "so-called, non-real" D&H teflon coating. |
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I think what Larry's saying is that those who are in love with a teflon coating don't understand exactly how much actual teflon is in the finish. (feel free to stop me, if I'm wrong Larry). based on his post. The actual % of teflon component in the coating must be fairly small. perhaps CProducts in their last quest to provide for the consumer, discovered that a "teflon coated" mag actually contains little actual PTFE? ...................... Personally, I've used the marlube mags without incident and don't really care what color the magazines are as long as they feed correctly. I haven't had a problem yet. btw, good to see the self-declared Cproducts troll out and about again. Guess the smack down you recieved last time you spouted off didn't sink in? |
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When I started this thread, it was to learn what Marlube was and how it held up. It was never ment to be a Larry bashing thread. In fact despite his problems with the black teflon, I think CP makes some pretty good mags which is why I wanted to know more about Marlube. Unfortunately anytime Larry responds to a post, somone moron out there will try to find fault with what he says or how he says it. I know there are people who are upset over the black teflon issue but hindsight being 20/20, I believe Larry had honorable intentions of delivering on this product but did not anticipate the associated problems. While I'm at it, lets put the problem in perspective; CT environmental laws, and only one uncooperative supplier who can provide the product he needs. Larry's real problem was being optomistic which is not a sin in my book. It is not the first time a company made a premature announcement that bit them in the butt and trust me it won't be the last (does anyone remember Osborne computer). Last I heard he is still trying to get the problems resolved (I hope that's still the case), but constantly taking cheap shots against him won't get the product to market any sooner. In the long run your little snippets might make you feel like you're getting your 15 seconds of fame but guess what. In the long run it won't make a nats ass difference. Right now I may not buy his .223 mags because I prefer black teflon, but hey, I like his 9mm product. When he has what I want in .223, then I will buy those as well because Larry and CP is a stand up company and hopefully in process it will piss you off even more. For all you bashers, think about this. He's making 20K+ mags a week (that's over 1 million annually) and moving to a larger facility to make even more. In simple terms he's growing. He's providing employment, paying taxes, delivering a damn good product, and hopefully making a profit. Living the American dream. Can you say the same or are you just one of those who suck off the tit of someone elses labor of love? Unless you've been in the shoes of a successful entrepenurer, you have no idea what it's like. I had my own business for 29 years and I've seen the likes of you come and go. No matter how good our product is, how fair we are in our business practices, or how much we give back to our communities, one misjudgement or error and all of a sudden we're condemed to hell. And then you come along standing on your soap box telling the world how unfair life is. The way I see it, the only thing your pettiness contributes is fertilizer (pure BS). Enough is enough of the Larry bashing. Time to start acting your age and not your shoe size. OK I'm finished ranting. |
You ask more than one question. One of which is
Your questions are what generated the majority of the responses you received.
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