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Posted: 11/24/2005 2:55:37 PM EDT
Are there any problems running the MagPul followers on Royal Ordnance/Imperial mags? Good idea? Ialreadyreplaced the crappy blue followers with green USGI followers.
Link Posted: 11/25/2005 7:55:07 AM EDT
I use the Magpul followers in the steel mags that have the little "ENGLAND" sticker on them.
No other markings of any kind. The original followers were black in mine(12).
I have tried to get positive ID on these a couple times and came up empty.
These seem to have better springs than the BM and Center mags I bought more like Wolf + springs.
Run flawless, like a poor working stiff's HK.
Link Posted: 11/25/2005 9:01:20 AM EDT
I had to do the same mod to the magpul followers for the Imperial Defense mags as I did for D&H mags are discussed here. Also, I found that the tabs at the bottom of the mag that hold the floorplate on were slightly larger than USGI mags so I had to file a bit of plastic out of the "slot" so that the follower could get into the magazine body smoothly. Good mags though with the followers touched up slightly
Link Posted: 11/25/2005 9:34:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/25/2005 9:35:05 AM EDT by eklikwhoa]
i have the "pink" prototype followers in my england mags and though they were a tight fit and bit of a pain to install they function great. the new coyote ones should fit better though
Link Posted: 11/25/2005 9:43:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By eklikwhoa:
i have the "pink" prototype followers in my england mags and though they were a tight fit and bit of a pain to install .


+1
I broke a pink one trying to install it.
Link Posted: 11/26/2005 7:40:46 PM EDT
Put them in, then run them up and down with a ruler. If you find wear spots, take out your trusty dremel and grind those spots down.

After dropping in new followers, and giving mine a couple coats of Norrells, these rate up with my HK mags. Bombproof.

Link Posted: 11/27/2005 4:24:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/27/2005 4:43:00 AM EDT by Submariner]
Nice, Stickman!

Do you use the original springs?

ETA: Pink! Why did they have to use pink?
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 1:54:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Submariner:
Nice, Stickman!

Do you use the original springs?

ETA: Pink! Why did they have to use pink?



The original springs are working fine for me, when I have a problem with one, I'll swap them all out.

The red/ pink is nice because there is no question it was the prototype. The ones I used needed minor fitting, but it keeps them from getting mixed up with current production ones.
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 9:13:06 PM EDT
Just a thought on these England mags, I was in the British Army and been connected with the UK miltary all my adult life 20+ years and neither I nor anybody I know back in the UK has ever seen these Engalnd mags used, they are certainly not SA80 A1 mags neither are they the Colt mags used in the SF M16 variant. I think the England is a manufacturer. All the SA80 A1 mags I have seen have a plastic base with large button normally marked RG or later HK in the early days when we had the weapon and no mags for it Colt versions were used but never any like this.
Plus the UK MOD would not have sticker with England on as a marking of origin.
I realise that people are having good luck with these and dont want to get you all down but they do not appear to belong to us
Link Posted: 11/28/2005 7:49:19 AM EDT
Stickman,

How did you refinish those mags? They look great.
Link Posted: 11/28/2005 12:14:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By chp5:
Stickman,

How did you refinish those mags? They look great.





norrells moly resin as stated in his post.

here's a good write up on the process

norrells moly resin
Link Posted: 11/28/2005 12:28:06 PM EDT
Thanks for the links.

I assume that refinishing the inside of the mags doesn't change the inside specs enough to matter. Is that correct?
Link Posted: 11/29/2005 8:43:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By pedro66:
Just a thought on these England mags, I was in the British Army and been connected with the UK miltary all my adult life 20+ years and neither I nor anybody I know back in the UK has ever seen these Engalnd mags used, they are certainly not SA80 A1 mags neither are they the Colt mags used in the SF M16 variant. I think the England is a manufacturer. All the SA80 A1 mags I have seen have a plastic base with large button normally marked RG or later HK in the early days when we had the weapon and no mags for it Colt versions were used but never any like this.
Plus the UK MOD would not have sticker with England on as a marking of origin.
I realise that people are having good luck with these and dont want to get you all down but they do not appear to belong to us



All the ARFCOM Brits keep telling ARFCOM Americans that they are not British SA80 mags but Singapore SAR80 mags. But does anyone listen - NO!
That is even after some of us have been to the importer/ exporter in the UK who gets them in from singapore...........

.........and sends them to the USA

Link Posted: 11/29/2005 7:58:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ACR26:

Originally Posted By pedro66:
Just a thought on these England mags, I was in the British Army and been connected with the UK miltary all my adult life 20+ years and neither I nor anybody I know back in the UK has ever seen these Engalnd mags used, they are certainly not SA80 A1 mags neither are they the Colt mags used in the SF M16 variant. I think the England is a manufacturer. All the SA80 A1 mags I have seen have a plastic base with large button normally marked RG or later HK in the early days when we had the weapon and no mags for it Colt versions were used but never any like this.
Plus the UK MOD would not have sticker with England on as a marking of origin.
I realise that people are having good luck with these and dont want to get you all down but they do not appear to belong to us



All the ARFCOM Brits keep telling ARFCOM Americans that they are not British SA80 mags but Singapore SAR80 mags. But does anyone listen - NO!
That is even after some of us have been to the importer/ exporter in the UK who gets them in from singapore...........

.........and sends them to the USA


Well they have stickers saying either "England" or "Made in England", with either Royal Ordnance or Imperial Defense Services - England stamped into the floorplate... not like the Singapore mags I saw. Nor are they like the Royal Ordnance aluminum mags with the push button floorplate.

Maybe these were intended for the SA80, and then the Hk mags were used instead?
Link Posted: 11/30/2005 12:33:24 AM EDT
It is very easy to.......
..........import a load of Singapore magazines into the UK and stamp whatever you want onto the base plate, before putting an England sticker on them and sending them to the USA! Or even order a large quantity of magazines and have whatever you want stamped on them by the manufacturer..........

Now, why doesn't ARFCOM do that for USGI / HK mags?

If you are happy with them and they work, great.

But these singapore magazines were never ever intended for the SA80 system

Initial trials used thermold magazines, then for general issue in 1985 Colt magazines were used. The RG magazines came in a year or so later. Finally, with the L85A2 came the HK magazines.
Link Posted: 11/30/2005 4:01:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/30/2005 4:04:27 AM EDT by metroplex]

Originally Posted By ACR26:
It is very easy to.......
..........import a load of Singapore magazines into the UK and stamp whatever you want onto the base plate, before putting an England sticker on them and sending them to the USA! Or even order a large quantity of magazines and have whatever you want stamped on them by the manufacturer..........

Now, why doesn't ARFCOM do that for USGI / HK mags?

If you are happy with them and they work, great.

But these singapore magazines were never ever intended for the SA80 system

Initial trials used thermold magazines, then for general issue in 1985 Colt magazines were used. The RG magazines came in a year or so later. Finally, with the L85A2 came the HK magazines.



+1

I compared the Imperial Defence steel mags with the T-65 mags, and the ID mags are of better quality. The floorplate tabs are cut properly for one thing. But the springs really need to be replaced. The T-65 mags have better and thicker springs (almost same quality as the USGI 30rd mag springs).

ETA:
I didn't know the Imperial Defence / Royal Ordnance mags were designed for the Singapore SAR80! That could explain the better build quality. The Taiwanese joke around that their T-65s suck, so its fitting that the T-65s are made very poorly.
Link Posted: 11/30/2005 9:50:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By metroplex:

Originally Posted By ACR26:
It is very easy to.......
..........import a load of Singapore magazines into the UK and stamp whatever you want onto the base plate, before putting an England sticker on them and sending them to the USA! Or even order a large quantity of magazines and have whatever you want stamped on them by the manufacturer..........

Now, why doesn't ARFCOM do that for USGI / HK mags?

If you are happy with them and they work, great.

But these singapore magazines were never ever intended for the SA80 system

Initial trials used thermold magazines, then for general issue in 1985 Colt magazines were used. The RG magazines came in a year or so later. Finally, with the L85A2 came the HK magazines.



+1

I compared the Imperial Defence steel mags with the T-65 mags, and the ID mags are of better quality. The floorplate tabs are cut properly for one thing. But the springs really need to be replaced. The T-65 mags have better and thicker springs (almost same quality as the USGI 30rd mag springs).

ETA:
I didn't know the Imperial Defence / Royal Ordnance mags were designed for the Singapore SAR80! That could explain the better build quality. The Taiwanese joke around that their T-65s suck, so its fitting that the T-65s are made very poorly.



At last
Someone who gets it
All the mags are made by Chartered Industries in Singapore, the same company that makes the SAR80 rifle.
That Imperial defense of the UK commissioned a very, very large quantity of magazines and exported over 200,000 of them to the USA doesn't make them English, British or even SA80 mags. They are Singaporean magazines.
One day you will absorb this information and everyone on here will cease to call them by the wrong names.

Gamma 762, you said:
Well they have stickers saying either "England" or "Made in England", with either Royal Ordnance or Imperial Defense Services - England stamped into the floorplate...

I say Jesus was born in a stable but that doesn't make him a horse, does it?

BTW, I have visited Imperial Defense (they are only 20 minutes from here) and bought some of these mags, the gray ones. While I was there, I saw a roll-stamping machine with a die on it that read Colt Mfg, Hartford Conneticut.
Doesn't mean they make Colt mags either, it just means he has a friend at Colt.

Mark

Link Posted: 11/30/2005 1:20:27 PM EDT
These guys with Colt machines must be doing a piss-poor job because even the SAR80 mags aren't as cleanly cut/rolled/welded as the USGI mags, but they're a big step up from the T-65 mags.
Link Posted: 11/30/2005 1:48:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By metroplex:
These guys with Colt machines must be doing a piss-poor job because even the SAR80 mags aren't as cleanly cut/rolled/welded as the USGI mags, but they're a big step up from the T-65 mags.



The roll-stamp is for marking mag floorplates.

Never heard of T-65 mags, are they really that bad?

Mark
Link Posted: 11/30/2005 3:50:14 PM EDT
These are the mags I have.
Singapore/ England or what?
They came in 5 packs wrapped in brown anti-rust paper.
The guy selling these said they were "Sterlings".
Just the "England" sticker.
No markings of any kind on the floor plate, body, box or paper they came in.
The Sharpie mark is so I can keep track of which mag gives me problems and IF so I can make a target out of it.
Super good springs and are stronger than BM and Centers I bought new.
Added Magpuls.
Run flawless better than the BM and Centers I bought new and put Magpuls in.
They are heavier and they will rust, neither a problem for the way I use them, but way tougher.IMHO.
SO ONCE AND FOR ALL ,Please ID these for me, TIA!

Link Posted: 11/30/2005 4:09:23 PM EDT
They look like the SAR80 mags (Singapore) with the matte finish.

The easiest way to tell is by checking to see if there is a # stamped on the bottom of the front side of the mag (the side that faces the front of your rifle), and to see if the "little" tabs on the floorplate area are actually small. The T-65 mags have "large" little tabs and the Magpuls can be a tight fit.

I have a few of the black SAR80 mags and they're very decent but I can now get DH mags at a lower price.
Link Posted: 11/30/2005 6:05:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/30/2005 6:08:50 PM EDT by metroplex]

Originally Posted By streetfighter:

Originally Posted By metroplex:
These guys with Colt machines must be doing a piss-poor job because even the SAR80 mags aren't as cleanly cut/rolled/welded as the USGI mags, but they're a big step up from the T-65 mags.



The roll-stamp is for marking mag floorplates.

Never heard of T-65 mags, are they really that bad?

Mark



Oh, then the T-65s dont even have marked floorplates. They're blank.

T-65 mags are Taiwanese AR mags, supposedly made on Colt machines. The thing that irks me the most is how poorly the floorplate tabs were cut. Everything else on the mag is passable as a Colt-style mag. Overall with Magpul followers, they were very reliable. I never had a failure of any kind even when using Wolf ammo.

The only failures I had with steel mags was with the Imperial Defence SAR80 mags. The factory springs were puny. I would get failures to hold the bolt on the last round from time to time with them.

The T-65s actually come with beefy springs that almost seem like they are from USGI mags.

If you want steel mags, I'd consider the SAR80s first and then the T-65s for exterior finish/quality. Ditch the follower and use a Magpul. Upgrade the springs if they're puny (I haven't seen these on the T-65s, just the blued SAR80s) and you should be set. Use CLP and it shouldn't rust.
Link Posted: 12/1/2005 1:32:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Triggerbender:
These are the mags I have.
Singapore/ England or what?
They came in 5 packs wrapped in brown anti-rust paper.
The guy selling these said they were "Sterlings".
Just the "England" sticker.
No markings of any kind on the floor plate, body, box or paper they came in.
The Sharpie mark is so I can keep track of which mag gives me problems and IF so I can make a target out of it.
Super good springs and are stronger than BM and Centers I bought new.
Added Magpuls.
Run flawless better than the BM and Centers I bought new and put Magpuls in.
They are heavier and they will rust, neither a problem for the way I use them, but way tougher.IMHO.
SO ONCE AND FOR ALL ,Please ID these for me, TIA!

i8.photobucket.com/albums/a5/PaxNovi9150/AR-15/Mag/Mvc-002f.jpg



Definately Chartered Industries Singapore mags.
As an aside to this, when a product is made in a certain country, US for example, it is marked "Made in USA" etc.
When anything is made in Britain, it is marked "Made in Britain" or "Made in United Kingdom" etc etc. But never England, Scotland, Wales, N.Ireland.
The "England" sticker was there only to show that they were not made in the USA and therefore gety around the AW ban.
Sterling don't even exist anymore and haven't done for many years

Mark
Link Posted: 12/1/2005 2:51:28 AM EDT
The CIS followers are also marked "ENGLAND" underneath (when you pull it out to throw it in the garbage).
Link Posted: 12/1/2005 9:19:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By streetfighter:

Originally Posted By Triggerbender:
These are the mags I have.
Singapore/ England or what?
They came in 5 packs wrapped in brown anti-rust paper.
The guy selling these said they were "Sterlings".
Just the "England" sticker.
No markings of any kind on the floor plate, body, box or paper they came in.
The Sharpie mark is so I can keep track of which mag gives me problems and IF so I can make a target out of it.
Super good springs and are stronger than BM and Centers I bought new.
Added Magpuls.
Run flawless better than the BM and Centers I bought new and put Magpuls in.
They are heavier and they will rust, neither a problem for the way I use them, but way tougher.IMHO.
SO ONCE AND FOR ALL ,Please ID these for me, TIA!

i8.photobucket.com/albums/a5/PaxNovi9150/AR-15/Mag/Mvc-002f.jpg



Definately Chartered Industries Singapore mags.
As an aside to this, when a product is made in a certain country, US for example, it is marked "Made in USA" etc.
When anything is made in Britain, it is marked "Made in Britain" or "Made in United Kingdom" etc etc. But never England, Scotland, Wales, N.Ireland.
The "England" sticker was there only to show that they were not made in the USA and therefore gety around the AW ban.
Sterling don't even exist anymore and haven't done for many years

Mark


Made in USA had nothing to do with the AW (magazine) ban. They just had to be made before Sept 14, 1994.
Link Posted: 12/1/2005 9:39:51 AM EDT


Made in USA had nothing to do with the AW (magazine) ban. They just had to be made before Sept 14, 1994.



Ok, I understand

Mark
Link Posted: 12/1/2005 3:17:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/1/2005 3:21:05 PM EDT by Triggerbender]

Originally Posted By metroplex:
The CIS followers are also marked "ENGLAND" underneath (when you pull it out to throw it in the garbage).



YEP! my old followers are marked ENGLAND on the under side.
YEP! a couple of the mags have circled numbers stamped bottom front side the others you have to look hard barely more than a micro ding in that area.
Thanks guys been trying to ID these for a while.

Link Posted: 12/25/2005 1:26:45 PM EDT
It´s nice to have the original mags for my 2nd black rifle. http://sivut.koti.soon.fi/jonez/pics/SAR-80_1.jpg

BTW. That mag inserted is Radway Green. I don´t like them. The plastic floorplate seem to be weak and fragile. The follower had lot of play and once it jammed the rifle when it rise past the bolt catch lever.
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