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Posted: 7/1/2003 3:29:17 AM EDT
Ok heres the background of the story:
My shooting buddy and I were driving out the the range last Sunday and One of his comments was "That L1A1 clip looks allot nicer painted black." I'm anal for some reason about calling them Mags. A clip I told him " Is somthing that feeds rounds into a magazine" .A freindly argument ensued and we both ended up thinking the other one was ignorent for thinking his way. So my question is what is the proper defintion of magazines and Clips? What is the proper name?

JIM

PS I know I'm right but I need some back up from the AR board. ;)
Link Posted: 7/1/2003 4:00:46 AM EDT
simply a clip loads a magazine a magazine loads a weapon. ar-15 rifles have magazines that load the rifle. ar-15 rifles also have "stripper clips" that are used to load their magazines. an MI garrand has an internal magazine and you take a u shaped piece piece of metal called an "N-block" clip holding ammo and insert it into the magazine. when the last round is fired the clip is ejected. magazines cost about $10-250 each clips cost about $1 for about 10
Link Posted: 7/1/2003 4:11:01 AM EDT
What 308wood said. The funny thing is you'll sometimes see magazines advertised by the manufacturer as clips. I want to say I saw that on the Marlin website for some of their .22 magazines.
Link Posted: 7/1/2003 4:12:42 AM EDT
Yep, I was right. Check out this Marlin Firearms website page advertising their mags as clips. Too funny. [url]https://www.marlinfirearms.com/store/magazines.php[/url]
Link Posted: 7/1/2003 2:36:59 PM EDT
I'm sure Marlin knows the nomenclature is wrong. I'm sure they know their customer too. They've been selling firearms for over 130 years.
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 10:43:06 AM EDT
Who started this stupid clip/magazine mixup any way? It must have happened a while ago because my 71 year old grandpa calls any detachable magazine a 'clip'.
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 9:16:39 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 308wood: simply a clip loads a magazine a magazine loads a weapon. ar-15 rifles have magazines that load the rifle. ar-15 rifles also have "stripper clips" that are used to load their magazines. an MI garrand has an internal magazine and you take a u shaped piece piece of metal called an "N-block" clip holding ammo and insert it into the magazine. when the last round is fired the clip is ejected.
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I think we need to post this a banner on top of the mags forum, and the AR forum. Not tack it, but actually create a bit map that everyone has to deal with, until everyone understands the difference. Sorry, my AR hot button issue. Oh, and I thought it was EN Block, kinda like en masse.
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 9:28:09 PM EDT
One easy way to remember it is that a magazine has a [b]follower[/b] and a clip does not.
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 10:37:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/3/2003 10:38:05 PM EDT by Gun_Addict]
Every repeating rifle has a magazine. They just have differnt types. Most lever action rifles us tubular magazines. Most autoloading rifles use Clip type magazines. A clip type mag is also referd to as removable. So both the term clip an magazine are correct. This is why stripper type mags are called clips. because you can remove them from ther rifle. Striper clips were origonaly made for rifles with internal magazines. Which means you are basicaly using one type of magazine to load another type of magazine. A clip is just the correct term for the type of magazine the you can take out of the rifle. This of course includes AR 15 mags as well. BOTH TERMS ARE CORRECT.[:o] So it is point less to argue when your both right.
Link Posted: 7/4/2003 5:18:47 AM EDT
Obviously you guys don't watch Mail Call..... [;)] -- Chuck
Link Posted: 7/4/2003 5:23:49 AM EDT
That was an excellent presentation.
Link Posted: 7/4/2003 8:05:31 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Chuck: Obviously you guys don't watch Mail Call..... [;)] -- Chuck
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Yes! I totaly forgot about that! I wish I had recorded that whole thing now! Damn R. Lee is one cool dude!
Link Posted: 7/4/2003 9:05:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/4/2003 9:07:15 AM EDT by ZRH]
Mail Call: "The clip goes into the magazine but the magazine doesnt go into the clip". [edited to add] That show is probably the best gun show on TV... Wish I still got cable [:|]
Link Posted: 7/4/2003 1:21:22 PM EDT
I dont know what your trying to prove with mail call but I am right. Why do you think some firearms manufactures call them clips?? The reason for all the confusion is that now most mags are clip type so the word magazine has some how been warped into only meaning deatachable mags. This is simply not true. Every rifle that can hold more than two rounds has a magazine. It dosn't matter if it can be detached or not. The other reason for confusion is that it is just easier to call all magazines, no matter what type they happen to be, magazines. This is how all of the confusion started.
Link Posted: 7/4/2003 1:29:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/4/2003 1:32:11 PM EDT by Stryfe]
Originally Posted By Gun_Addict: I dont know what your trying to prove with mail call but I am right. Why do you think some firearms manufactures call them clips?? The reason for all the confusion is that now most mags are clip type so the word magazine has some how been warped into only meaning deatachable mags. This is simply not true. Every rifle that can hold more than two rounds has a magazine. It dosn't matter if it can be detached or not. The other reason for confusion is that it is just easier to call all magazines, no matter what type they happen to be, magazines. This is how all of the confusion started.
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First off, no one has said that it has to be detachable. The requirements, in general, are that it has a spring, a follower, and that it allows cartridges to be loaded directly into the chamber. You assume detachable. Second you are wrong about a rifle that can hold two rounds has a magazine. Have you ever heard of a drillings rifle? Two (or more) barrels, two rounds. Therefore, a rifle that holds two rounds and has no magazine. Popular usage of the word clip to denote magazine does not make it right.
Link Posted: 7/4/2003 6:37:02 PM EDT
Okay, My turn to obfuscate things more! Magazine- Stems from both the old military, and naval terms, indicating storage for munitions. In these contexts, a magazine can be a large building, or structure used to hold munitions, or the area within a ship holding the charges and shells. In small arms, it's a self contained (somewhat) feed device. Most magazine equipped firearms are capable of functioning without a magazine Detachable magazine- What you commonly see. I won't use the term "Box Magazine" as that is design specefic. The heliocal feed mags of the GAU's and the Calico weapons, as well as the drum mags one finds blur the definitions. Clip- Stamped, or folded device used to hold ammunition, and ease it's loading. Yes, the detachable mag is frequently called a "clip" Bad terminilogy is not worth reinforcing. A clip is NOT a magazine. The Garand's, and the Mannlicher's clips are not the same as magazines, as they will not "present" the munition, depending instead upon the action of the weapon to do so. Meplat-
Link Posted: 7/4/2003 10:39:23 PM EDT
You are both worng. yes mags have to have a spring but even a tubular mag has one. A clip is another term for a detachable magazine a stripper clip is a clip simply because you can detache it. Just becuase you know about ARs dosn't make you a firearms expert.
Link Posted: 7/5/2003 1:30:56 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Gun_Addict: You are both worng. [red]because you say so[/red] yes mags have to have a spring but even a tubular mag has one. [red]???[/red] A clip is another term for a detachable magazine a stripper clip is a clip simply because you can detache it. [red]So, another name for a detachable box magazine, is stripper clip?[/red] Just becuase you know about ARs dosn't make you a firearms expert. [red]and you are and we are supposed to take your word for it that the two terms are interchangable?[/red]
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Every one here, except you, has supported their viewpoint. They can't be used interchangably for the simple reason that it would cause unnecessary confusion.
Link Posted: 7/5/2003 10:55:30 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/5/2003 4:06:05 PM EDT
Thanks Troy, I've been looking for something like that.
Link Posted: 7/6/2003 11:44:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/6/2003 11:56:32 PM EDT by Gun_Addict]
I can't belive how much we are willing to argue about such a stupid topic. What we should be arguing about is why you incist on calling People idiots and so on when they say clip. Every one is always talking about how you should get new people involved our sport but then you are nasty to the new people as soon as they ask a so called dumb question or make some sort of mastake. I don't think thats any way to make some one want to get into shooting ARs. PS. This dose not mean I conceed Im wrong because Im not, Im just saying that it is stupid to argue about it so I am done doing so.
Link Posted: 7/7/2003 12:20:46 AM EDT
GA- Hmm. I believe the term used was "Moron", as opposed to "Idiot". And if you thought that was nasty, I'd have to wonder just how thin your skin is. So you use SPF 10,000 sunblock, Yes? Please post ONE quote from a reputable text, stating, and /or reinforcing your opinion on this, thanks. Meplat-
Link Posted: 7/7/2003 1:00:45 AM EDT
And no one was calling anyone a moron. It was just pointed out that someone was "running the risk of being called a moron". Which, I may add, is a HUGE FUC#ING DIFFERENCE. Grow some thick skin already.
Link Posted: 7/7/2003 1:42:39 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Gun_Addict: I can't belive how much we are willing to argue about such a stupid topic. What we should be arguing about is why you incist on calling People idiots and so on when they say clip. Every one is always talking about how you should get new people involved our sport but then you are nasty to the new people as soon as they ask a so called dumb question or make some sort of mastake. I don't think thats any way to make some one want to get into shooting ARs.
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It is important to bring new people into the sport. It is also important to educate them. I don't think that anyone is making fun of you, we are trying to show you the difference, and explain why we do what we do.
Link Posted: 7/7/2003 1:47:39 AM EDT
[headbang]
Link Posted: 7/7/2003 4:41:22 AM EDT
I don't want to call anyone ANY, name irrespective of reason. However, having said that, gentlemen, look at what your dealing with. If one is not able to differentiate between, being called an idiot, and being cautioned not to "act" like a " moron" how could we expect him to appreciate the subtle, but none the less, very real, differences between, "clips, and say uhhhm...magazines? BTW, my understanding of magazines; detachable box type, detchable other type, tubular, etc., in regards to a small arm "feeding device" requires the magazine to force the round into the chamber. Clips do not do this.
Link Posted: 7/7/2003 11:03:56 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Gun_Addict: Every repeating rifle has a magazine. They just have differnt types. Most lever action rifles us tubular magazines. Most autoloading rifles use Clip type magazines. A clip type mag is also referd to as removable. So both the term clip an magazine are correct. This is why stripper type mags are called clips. because you can remove them from ther rifle. Striper clips were origonaly made for rifles with internal magazines. Which means you are basicaly using one type of magazine to load another type of magazine. A clip is just the correct term for the type of magazine the you can take out of the rifle. This of course includes AR 15 mags as well. BOTH TERMS ARE CORRECT.[:o] So it is point less to argue when your both right.
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Originally Posted By Gun_Addict: Every one is always talking about how you should get new people involved our sport but then you are nasty to the new people as soon as they ask a so called dumb question or make some sort of mastake. PS. This dose not mean I conceed Im wrong because Im not, Im just saying that it is stupid to argue about it so I am done doing so.
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You didn’t ask the initial question regarding the difference between magazines and clips. You made a statement that was incorrect. Then, even when proven incorrect you refused to acknowledge your error, which is the issue some people have with your posts. You’ll find people on this board are very willing to help others, especially new shooters, understand or learn things. However, it’s nice when the advice or knowledge offered is appreciated. You seem to have been personally offended by others pointing out your mistaken opinion. If someone points out an error I’ve made I appreciate the input. You ought to try it sometime. Again, no one was beating you up over being wrong. BTW, welcome to the board.
Link Posted: 7/8/2003 9:23:20 PM EDT
Anyone who has ever used the term 'I could give a sh&t' should know something about how common usage eventually overcomes logic and correct grammer. the correct term, of course, is 'I COULDN'T give a sh&t.' Everyone understands when I use the first expression, tho it is incorrect. In rare cases, the switching of the terms magazine and clip can be confusing, but i would never correct my grandfather if he flipped them. Besides, I could care less. I mean, I COULDN'T care less.
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