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7/9/2015 10:02:31 AM EDT
So what does everyone think will happen now that the military is going to start using hollow point ammo? A bunch of new ammunition hitting the market? The price will drop? What does everyone think they will use for issue rounds now?
7/9/2015 10:10:24 AM EDT
[#1]
Isn't that against the Geneva convention?
7/9/2015 10:12:29 AM EDT
[#2]
I think it was the Hague Convention.

The US was/is not a signatory, we just complied voluntarily.  

Smoke 'em.
7/9/2015 10:12:59 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote History
Quoted:
Isn't that against the Geneva convention?
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Aren't we the only ones that follow it?
7/9/2015 10:30:51 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote History
Quoted:
I think it was the Hague Convention.

The US was/is not a signatory, we just complied voluntarily.  

Smoke 'em.
View Quote



Exactly. The US did not sign.
7/9/2015 10:50:00 AM EDT
[#5]
AGNTSA.
7/9/2015 12:38:52 PM EDT
[#6]
The introduction of OTM didn't drive the price down for rifle ammo, won't do it for pistol.
7/9/2015 1:21:37 PM EDT
[#7]
Geneva... Hague... All areas of international law = meaningless dog shit.
7/9/2015 2:38:43 PM EDT
[#8]
Hague...............


Why the change now?
7/9/2015 5:51:55 PM EDT
[#9]

Quote History
Quoted:


Hague...............





Why the change now?
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Ammo change makes the 9mm more effective and its cheaper than buying new guns.
7/9/2015 6:02:07 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote History
Quoted:
The introduction of OTM didn't drive the price down for rifle ammo, won't do it for pistol.
View Quote

I think the volume of 9mm production for military use is much grater than OTM. Heck, you can get the "old" Federal LE hollow points for $16/50. And they work great. I think we should see economy of scale work in our favor here as well.
7/9/2015 8:15:09 PM EDT
[#11]
Ummmm.....

OP, what are you talking about?  The US military has been using "open tip" ammunition since the 1980s.

Open Tip Math bullets are NOT hollow points.  These bullets not only don't deform much, they tend to punch through targets slightly better than FMJ bullets.  The open tip allows the bullet to be manufactured by filling the jacket from the front, which leaves a much more consistent bullet base - this tends to make more accurate bullets.  These bullets do not cause wounds that are substantially different from FMJ bullets.

Here's a great source of FACTUAL information.  How do I know it's factual?  I can independently look up ALL the stuff they mention and verify it's accurate.  That's something we should all do.  This site is one source of the following information...

The Hague Convention of 1899 (the first Hague Convention) outlawed "bullets which flatten or expand easily in the human body."

"The Contracting Parties agree to abstain from the use of bullets which expand or flatten easily in the human body, such as bullets with a hard envelope which does not entirely cover the core, or is pierced with incisions."
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 The US was not a signatory to Hague I

Hague IV (1907), which the US WAS a signatory to, specifically banned "arms or material [sic] calculated to cause unnecessary suffering."

In 1990, a Judge Advocate General opinion stated:

"The purpose of the 7.62mm "open-tip" MatchKing bullet is to provide maximum accuracy at very long range. … Bullet fragmentation is not a design characteristic, however, nor a purpose for use of the MatchKing by United States Army snipers. Wounds caused by MatchKing ammunition are similar to those caused by a fully jacketed military ball bullet, which is legal under the law of war, when compared at the same ranges and under the same conditions. (The Sierra #2200 BTHP) not only meets, but exceeds, the law of war obligations of the United States for use in combat."
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It's pretty much ESSENTIAL that the shooting community get this stuff straight, or we'll have more BS like the ATF's attempts to ban M855/SS109 bullets because so many idiot gun enthusiasts called those bullets "armor piercing."  Get the facts straight, guys.
7/9/2015 8:56:24 PM EDT
[#12]
I guess I put this under the wrong ammunition forum.  I was mainly referring to the fact that they announced they would be open to the use of JHP's in their sidearms. Whether this will change the production rate/price of 9mm ammunition. Also wondering how much of an affect this will also have on the decision for the new issued sidearm once they make a decision on what will replace the M9 since now the 9mm may be the choice round.

I know the OTM's have been in use for quite some time now.

Well I guess I'll be done with this topic before I cause another attempt on an ammo ban.
7/9/2015 10:23:34 PM EDT
[#13]
Alrighty.
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