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Posted: 6/23/2015 11:58:47 PM EDT
| Ok, so I just got an E- flyer from a certain Shooting Supply retailer in Chattanooga. Contained within this flyer was several different varieties of federal ammunition. Can anyone articulate the differences between all of these similar seeming offerings? I understand the difference between .223 spec ammo and 5.56/XM spec ammo, what I am asking about is the specific differences denoted by the packaging of the various offerings. I have seen other posts where someone will claim that two or more offerings actually contain the same ammo, but then two posts later someone else contradicts that post saying that they are not. I looked on Federal's site, but they only list 14 different types of .223 and no 5.56 on the comparator I found, so please educate me. |
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This quite the question with a difficult response... but I will give it a crack...
For the most part .... all of the 5.56 55gr will have the same velocities, but with the main difference being the brass it is loaded in LC headstamped vs Fed. headstamped ) and the specific packaging.. ( stripper clipped, bulk pack, quantity etc ) The same applies to the .223 more or less... but the listed velocities are usually from a 24" barrel. In my experience... the Red boxed AE will be Fed. brass. ....The XM193 should be LC brass.... The rest can be a crap shoot... With that said ... there doesn't seem to be a predictable way to expect what is in the package.... so long story short if it says 5.56.. it will be more likely to be LC brass..... If it says .223 it is more likely to be Fed. brass. IMHO, Only Fed. / ATK could truly answer with specifics.... and I have yet to see any answer specific enough. If you are looking to order in case lots.... those prices can be beaten.... easily. I suggest these 2 offerings... Bulk , ready to go on stripper clips, average XM193 accuracy... http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/ammunition/rifle-ammunition/223-5-56/federal-5-56-55gr-fmj-bt-90rds-strclp.html Quite Accurate range fodder / varmint bullet, very accurate for the price point .. ( out of mine and numerous other rifles .. read the reviews.. ) http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/catalog/product/view/id/4550/category/53/ Be advised shipping from PSA can sometimes be slow... |
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OP, are you asking about XM193/855 with the various suffixes? Like BK, J, etc?
Those suffixes denote the packaging. BK is loose bulk packed. Other suffixes denote loaded on strippers, 20 round, 30 round, and so on. It's all the same ammo, just different packaging. |
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XM193 and XM855 are loaded to military specifications and should not be used in SAAMI .223 Remington chambers.
The next question should be - "who makes SAAMI .223 Remington chambers?" Almost every AR barrel I have ever seen advertised has a 5.56mm, Wylde or proprietary chamber safe for military loadings. |
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Quoted: XM193 and XM855 are loaded to military specifications and should not be used in SAAMI .223 Remington chambers. The next question should be - "who makes SAAMI .223 Remington chambers?" Almost every AR barrel I have ever seen advertised has a 5.56mm, Wylde or proprietary chamber safe for military loadings. thats not what he's asking (he even states that he knows the difference between .223 and 5.56). he's asking about the suffix attached to different XM ammo, like XM193F. that just differs based on packaging |
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Quoted:
This quite the question with a difficult response... but I will give it a crack... For the most part .... all of the 5.56 55gr will have the same velocities, but with the main difference being the brass it is loaded in LC headstamped vs Fed. headstamped ) and the specific packaging.. ( stripper clipped, bulk pack, quantity etc ) The same applies to the .223 more or less... but the listed velocities are usually from a 24" barrel. In my experience... the Red boxed AE will be Fed. brass. ....The XM193 should be LC brass.... The rest can be a crap shoot... With that said ... there doesn't seem to be a predictable way to expect what is in the package.... so long story short if it says 5.56.. it will be.... If it says .223 it is. IMHO, Only Fed. / ATK could truly answer with specifics.... and I have yet to see any answer specific enough. If you are looking to order in case lots.... those prices can be beaten.... easily. I suggest these 2 offerings... Bulk , ready to go on stripper clips, average XM193 accuracy... http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/ammunition/rifle-ammunition/223-5-56/federal-5-56-55gr-fmj-bt-90rds-strclp.html Quite Accurate range fodder / varmint bullet, very accurate for the price point .. ( out of mine and numerous other rifles .. read the reviews.. ) http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/catalog/product/view/id/4550/category/53/ Be advised shipping from PSA can sometimes be slow... I like the XM193, shoot a lot of it, and have only seen LC brass as I recall.. In both the 420rd cans, loose pack, and 90 rd boxes (Palmetto always seems to have the best prices on this....especially when you get free shipping). |
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Quoted:
Ok, so I just got an E- flyer from a certain Shooting Supply retailer in Chattanooga. Contained within this flyer was several different varieties of federal ammunition. Can anyone articulate the differences between all of these similar seeming offerings? I understand the difference between .223 spec ammo and 5.56/XM spec ammo, what I am asking about is the specific differences denoted by the packaging of the various offerings. I have seen other posts where someone will claim that two or more offerings actually contain the same ammo, but then two posts later someone else contradicts that post saying that they are not. I looked on Federal's site, but they only list 14 different types of .223 and no 5.56 on the comparator I found, so please educate me. This is what I am asking. here is the AD, (with the links stripped so I am not really advertising for them.) 
You will note there are 7 different offerings of 55gr ammo in this ad alone,. and when you add in what the box stores carry, there are more. I realize some are just different quantities or packaging, but you can't just go and ask the little woman to pick up "black box federal" and have a reasonable expectation of getting the same thing. I was hoping someone could help out and articulate exactly what the different offerings are so I wouldn't have to buy one of each of the 20 offerings, only to realize "eww, these come in the crappy FC brass" or whatever... Basically "what's in the box?" kLDhMU5JvMk |
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Quoted:
looks like there are 4 different rounds in that ad: XM193, and 3 different .223 All XM193 is LC brass, and all the .223 is FC brass I think Oh, and the .223 in the black box has mil spec primers I think, so 5 types I see 2 possibly 3 different 55gr loadings in that add. The bottom row of 5.56 is all the same just different round counts. The bulk box is probably the same as one of the 55gr .223 loads listed below them maybe both. The 100rd count box is the same as the black 20rd count .223 The remaining 2 are a 50gr and 62gr bullet. |
| Ok, that makes sense. I guess what was flummoxing me was there seemed to be so much overlap and similar but not quite the same offerings... Does the 5.56 stuff suffer from the same 3-4moa poor accuracy as some other XM spec ammo? I would like to have the hotter stuff because it just seems to work better, but since I am going to primarily be using it for shorter range 3 gun (under 200 or so) and the prices are so similar, if one variety was more accurate... |
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Quoted:
Ok, that makes sense. I guess what was flummoxing me was there seemed to be so much overlap and similar but not quite the same offerings... Does the 5.56 stuff suffer from the same 3-4moa poor accuracy as some other XM spec ammo? I would like to have the hotter stuff because it just seems to work better, but since I am going to primarily be using it for shorter range 3 gun (under 200 or so) and the prices are so similar, if one variety was more accurate... The only way to tell what your rifle shoots best is to try a variety of loads. Every barrel is different. What gives me great accuracy in my rifle may be complete shit in your identical rifle. If accuracy is what you are after there's no reason not to try .223 loadings. In fact those may be more accurate in your AR. Smaller batches / lots. Every time I order a can or case of 193 I add three or four boxes of a .223 or 5.56 load that I've not tried. Some lots of LC XM193 give me very acceptable accuracy. Some not so much. Prvi M193 and Wolf Gold seem to be very consistent lot to lot for me. I keep a bit of M855 but don't expect accuracy. |
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Quoted:
I keep a bit of M855 but don't expect accuracy. Please forgive me because my ammo knowledge is lacking. If you don't expect accuracy, why do you buy the M855? This isn't a smart ass question, but a serious one. I have a small stash of Federal XM193 and M855. I'm trying to figure out what is "best" for me. |
| The one thing to take note of is how the box is labeled. You've got American Eagle AR5.56 and AE223 Tactical to confuse things. The AE AR 5.56 should be obvious and is more than likely an XM-193/855 type with the LC headstamp. That will usually be reflected on the box somewhere. The AE 223 Tactical is probably loaded to 223 specs however using milspec primers instead and probably FC headstamps. |
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A related addendum to this question: is FC brass the same as LC brass, now that FC runs the LC plant?
This is more than just a curiosity to find out. FC brass earned a reputation of being soft, and easily opening up primer pockets in just one or two firings. It had a rep as a low value brass. Their headstamp would say FC and not much else, with rounded primer pocket openings, and no crimp. Today, there are basically 4 flavors of brass markings, and I'm curious if they all are similar to Federals old spec (which I doubt), or all now military LC quality brass (which didn't have primer pockets open up too soon), or some are the old (And not so great) Federal spec, and some are the LC spec. As to flavor. You have two styles of LC stamps (both with crimps). The first is a 1 marking every 90 degrees to spell out L C 1 5 (Where 15 is the year). The second style is a semicircle of lettering that says FC15, all clumped together. Interestingly, I've observed most of my F C 1 5 style to have off-center flash holes often. Not sure if just my lots, or what. You then have FC stamped brass that looks just like the LC stamped brass, with crimped primer pockets even. [This is new, and coincidental in timing after FC taking over LC operations, leading one to wonder if it's LC brass]. Which I suspect (But don't know), this is basically LC brass, stamped with an FC. And then you have brass stamped more like the old commercial FC. Which I suspect (But don't know), is still the lower value old FC quality brass of yore. So I'm curious, anyone else have thoughts or observations on this? [edit - fixed typographical error] |
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Quoted:
A related addendum to this question: is FC brass the same as LC brass, now that FC runs the LC plant? This is more than just a curiosity to find out. FC brass earned a reputation of being soft, and easily opening up primer pockets in just one or two firings. It had a rep as a low value brass. Their headstamp would say FC and not much else, with rounded primer pocket openings, and no crimp. Today, there are basically 4 flavors of brass markings, and I'm curious if they all are similar to Federals old spec (which I doubt), or all now military LC quality brass (which didn't have primer pockets open up too soon), or some are the old (And not so great) Federal spec, and some are the LC spec. As to flavor. You have two styles of LC stamps (both with crimps). The first is a 1 marking every 90 degrees to spell out F C 1 5 (Where 15 is the year). The second style is a semicircle of lettering that says FC15, all clumped together. Interestingly, I've observed most of my F C 1 5 style to have off-center flash holes often. You then have FC stamped brass that looks just like the LC stamped brass, sometimes with crimped primer pockets even. Which I suspect (But don't know), is basically LC brass, stamped with an FC. And then you have brass stamped more like the old commercial FC. Which I suspect (But don't know), is still the lower value old FC quality brass of yore. So I'm curious, does anyone else know? Any experiences? Not sure of all that however FC does not run the LC plant. Lake City is run by ATK which also owns Federal. I suspect FC brass is manufactured at the Anoka plant in MN but all LC brass is manufactured at LCAAP in MO. "Some" Federal/American Eagle branded rounds come with LC brass while others are loaded in FC brass. |
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I am glad to see I am not the only one that is wondering about the differences.
Has anyone put togeather a guide or cheat sheet of federal offerings - you know a "this box with this code and this name had this headstamp/pressure/description in it and it shot (good, bad, ugly) in this gun" ? |
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Quoted:
Please forgive me because my ammo knowledge is lacking. If you don't expect accuracy, why do you buy the M855? This isn't a smart ass question, but a serious one. I have a small stash of Federal XM193 and M855. I'm trying to figure out what is "best" for me. Quoted:
Quoted:
I keep a bit of M855 but don't expect accuracy. Please forgive me because my ammo knowledge is lacking. If you don't expect accuracy, why do you buy the M855? This isn't a smart ass question, but a serious one. I have a small stash of Federal XM193 and M855. I'm trying to figure out what is "best" for me. The best I've ever gotten from either my 16" or 20" is just under 4" ten round groups. With a variety of 855 loadings. And that's well within mil - spec for 855. It is what it is. It's not made to be match ammo. For me it's range / blasting away ammo. I get much better accuracy from 193 loadings. Still not match stuff at all, but groups easily half the size of 855. Nothing wrong with having a good amount of 855. Especially if you have a rifle that likes it. Or you can find it cheap. I still buy it occasionally. Generally I think I never have more than 1k of it on hand though. M193 loads are less expensive and more accurate for me. I keep a lot of those on hand. |
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Quoted:
The best I've ever gotten from either my 16" or 20" is just under 4" ten round groups. With a variety of 855 loadings. And that's well within mil - spec for 855. It is what it is. It's not made to be match ammo. For me it's range / blasting away ammo. I get much better accuracy from 193 loadings. Still not match stuff at all, but groups easily half the size of 855. Nothing wrong with having a good amount of 855. Especially if you have a rifle that likes it. Or you can find it cheap. I still buy it occasionally. Generally I think I never have more than 1k of it on hand though. M193 loads are less expensive and more accurate for me. I keep a lot of those on hand. So if I'm understanding you correctly, there really wouldn't be much of a reason for me to buy this instead of XM193 unless I got it at a great price. |
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Quoted:
So if I'm understanding you correctly, there really wouldn't be much of a reason for me to buy this instead of XM193 unless I got it at a great price. Quoted:
Quoted:
The best I've ever gotten from either my 16" or 20" is just under 4" ten round groups. With a variety of 855 loadings. And that's well within mil - spec for 855. It is what it is. It's not made to be match ammo. For me it's range / blasting away ammo. I get much better accuracy from 193 loadings. Still not match stuff at all, but groups easily half the size of 855. Nothing wrong with having a good amount of 855. Especially if you have a rifle that likes it. Or you can find it cheap. I still buy it occasionally. Generally I think I never have more than 1k of it on hand though. M193 loads are less expensive and more accurate for me. I keep a lot of those on hand. So if I'm understanding you correctly, there really wouldn't be much of a reason for me to buy this instead of XM193 unless I got it at a great price. That's my opinion. As far as I'm concerned, M855 is a pretty crappy round from all angles. It costs more, less accurate, and less terminal ballistics. It's enhanced armor penetration ability is marginal, and in some settings actually less (due the slower velocity). It's also banned from some ranges. There are very little reasons I would suggest you purchasing M855 over M193. |
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I probably don't have 200 rounds of M855 style ammo, mostly because I have both slow and fast twist guns, and my go-to is a slow twist 16" carbine. I too have better results in most of my guns with 55 grain that the pen rounds. The 62 grain standard FMJBT American eagle (lead only) shoots pretty good in my faster twist guns, but since it looks just like the 55's I don't stock it. All of my match ammo is either poly tipped (AMAX, etc), or open tip, and is easily distinguishable if I have a half a mag of random ammo in a range bag.
So I guess the real question I should have asked is "Of the federal .223/5.56 offerings in 55 gr, what variety gives the best accuracy in your guns?" and as a follow up, If I add the additional qualification of decent, reloadable brass, does the answer change?" I think I might be OK with even the "soft" FC brass loads because I typically shoot the brass new, then if I can get it back, and it does not need primer pocket processing, it gets loaded up with 3 gun match bullets and left on the ground at a lost brass match. The "good stuff" that coincidentally also requires primer pocket processing, is much more likely to end up loaded for high power or shot on the bench where I normally get it ALL back, because it required the extra work. |
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My thoughts are that some folks see 855 as the mil issue and want it because of that alone. Or they see the LAP aspect and want because of that. Then there are some who see the green painted tip and think it looks more tacticool.
It's just not great ammo. Give me 193 over 855. Sure, buy it if you find it cheap. Just realize it won't be as accurate as other loads. And don't waste your time trying to get it to be accurate. That said, there are a few folks here who have posted that PMC X-Tac 855 is extremely accurate for them. That's one load I haven't tried. Need to get a few boxes. |
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