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Posted: 10/3/2013 4:38:43 AM EDT
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What does the CS stand for and are folks having any issues with it? I see threads discussing XM855 but don't recall seeing the "CS" post script.
Sorry, newbie here... |
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Its not QA/QC rejects. When will this myth stop. The "CS" after the xm855 denotes packaging and nothing else. This info is straight from ATK.
When the machines at lake city Arn't busy making ammo for the DoD they make ammo for the civilian market. It's a common myth that its rejects off the mil ammo. This is untrue. A Clinton era executive order banned surplusing ammo in whole form. DoD employees run the QA/QC portion of the line when ATK makes ammo for the DoD. This means its essentially gov property at that point and if its rejected it gets pulled down and sold as components. I've seen pics of gaylords full of millions of rounds ready to get pulled down. The primed cases, bullets, and powder are sold to remanufacturers. It's why you sometimes get federal ATK made xm193 with the NATO cross (hint: its not a NATO round) its why sometimes you get ring crimp or the 4 stab kind. What ever the line was set up to run last is what gets run for the civilian market. My inlaws live 3 miles as the crow flies from lake cities back door. I used to hear them doing test runs. now i dont notice it as ive become accustomed to rips of 20mm somehow. One of my wife's brides maids worked the 7.62 line. A lake city electriction and a dock-man were at my wedding. Just imagine the liability issues alone with selling QA/QC reject ammo even on cosmetic issues alone. |
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Quoted:
Its not QA/QC rejects. When will this myth stop. The "CS" after the xm855 denotes packaging and nothing else. This info is straight from ATK. When the machines at lake city Arn't busy making ammo for the DoD they make ammo for the civilian market. It's a common myth that its rejects off the mil ammo. This is untrue. A Clinton era executive order banned surplusing ammo in whole form. DoD employees run the QA/QC portion of the line when ATK makes ammo for the DoD. This means its essentially gov property at that point and if its rejected it gets pulled down and sold as components. I've seen pics of gaylords full of millions of rounds ready to get pulled down. The primed cases, bullets, and powder are sold to remanufacturers. It's why you sometimes get federal ATK made xm193 with the NATO cross (hint: its not a NATO round) its why sometimes you get ring crimp or the 4 stab kind. What ever the line was set up to run last is what gets run for the civilian market. My inlaws live 3 miles as the crow flies from lake cities back door. I used to hear them doing test runs. now i dont notice it as ive become accustomed to rips of 20mm somehow. One of my wife's brides maids worked the 7.62 line. A lake city electriction and a dock-man were at my wedding. Just imagine the liability issues alone with selling QA/QC reject ammo even on cosmetic issues alone. This exactly. If ANY manufacturer sold ammo that didn't pass QC they would be setting themselves up for serious lawsuits. There is a bunch of this stuff hitting stores right now, and it's all gtg. |
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Quoted:
Its not QA/QC rejects. When will this myth stop. The "CS" after the xm855 denotes packaging and nothing else. This info is straight from ATK. When the machines at lake city Arn't busy making ammo for the DoD they make ammo for the civilian market. It's a common myth that its rejects off the mil ammo. This is untrue. A Clinton era executive order banned surplusing ammo in whole form. DoD employees run the QA/QC portion of the line when ATK makes ammo for the DoD. This means its essentially gov property at that point and if its rejected it gets pulled down and sold as components. I've seen pics of gaylords full of millions of rounds ready to get pulled down. The primed cases, bullets, and powder are sold to remanufacturers. It's why you sometimes get federal ATK made xm193 with the NATO cross (hint: its not a NATO round) its why sometimes you get ring crimp or the 4 stab kind. What ever the line was set up to run last is what gets run for the civilian market. My inlaws live 3 miles as the crow flies from lake cities back door. I used to hear them doing test runs. now i dont notice it as ive become accustomed to rips of 20mm somehow. One of my wife's brides maids worked the 7.62 line. A lake city electriction and a dock-man were at my wedding. Just imagine the liability issues alone with selling QA/QC reject ammo even on cosmetic issues alone. This. LAX Ammo had 2k bulk packs on sale right before the navy yard shooting. 35 lots (70k rnds) sold out in 24 hours. |
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Reject xm855 fails quality control standards. Lube dents in neck/shoulder green paint chipped or missing. These are my personal observations, Runs fine. This post is a perfect example of how time on the forum and post count are completely unrelated to the validity of the imformation someone posts. |
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So all the imperfection in it are acceptably for first run ammo.  You should stop while you are ahead. From Federal: " XM193 product is first run, first quality product manufactured at Lake City Army Ammunition Plant for Federal Cartridge and is made to Federal specifications typical for commercial ammunition." "All XM193 product is the same regardless of the sku or part number. (ie. XM193C is the same as XM193F, XM193CBP and etc…) The only difference is the package configuration." |
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Quoted: You should stop while you are ahead. From Federal: " XM193 product is first run, first quality product manufactured at Lake City Army Ammunition Plant for Federal Cartridge and is made to Federal specifications typical for commercial ammunition." "All XM193 product is the same regardless of the sku or part number. (ie. XM193C is the same as XM193F, XM193CBP and etc…) The only difference is the package configuration." Quoted: Quoted: So all the imperfection in it are acceptably for first run ammo. You should stop while you are ahead. From Federal: " XM193 product is first run, first quality product manufactured at Lake City Army Ammunition Plant for Federal Cartridge and is made to Federal specifications typical for commercial ammunition." "All XM193 product is the same regardless of the sku or part number. (ie. XM193C is the same as XM193F, XM193CBP and etc…) The only difference is the package configuration." |
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Quoted: I'm saying it is not factory seconds, or QC rejects. You will find a few dents and dings in any loose packed bulk ammo. This is not the same as the "not for duty" use ammo. That stuff does not meet mil spec and is sold saying so. |
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That is acceptable but I have bought surplus shipped in bulk that did not look any where near as rough as this stuff has . The stuff I got looks like kids with paint brushes painted the tips. I have never found anything that said any more than M855 (IE.XXM855XX) to look good period. I have a hard time believing this is the best they make. Quoted:
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I'm saying it is not factory seconds, or QC rejects. You will find a few dents and dings in any loose packed bulk ammo. This is not the same as the "not for duty" use ammo. That stuff does not meet mil spec and is sold saying so. Hmm, I think you should just send the ammo to me so I can analyze it.  If it is the ammo you purchased is that bad I'd contact Federal and see if they'll take a look at it. My stuff hasn't always been pretty, but it has never let me down. I've shot plenty of true M855 that looked like shit, but still shot fine.
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What does the CS stand for and are folks having any issues with it? I see threads discussing XM855 but don't recall seeing the "CS" post script. Sorry, newbie here... I've had issues with it; I cannot group and zero either of my ARs with this ammo, while when I shoot it for the Army I get nice, tight little groups. I've shot two different 420rd cans of this ammo that I bought in two separate states out of the same two rifles and had the same problem. My guns are 1:9 and obviously the Army's rifles are 1:7; unless this is causing the problems I'm experiencing, I'm calling B.S. on the "this isn't QC reject ammo" statement. I know that the M855 projectile is 62gr weight with a length similar to a 70gr bullet which is the top end for 1:9 barrels; I shoot 69gr SMK handloads out of my guns with zero issues. |
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