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Posted: 5/12/2012 10:43:35 PM EDT
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Since supplies of decent surplus .308 are long gone, and most all of the steel stuff sucks, I have been looking for what ammo to buy to blast with. I already handload all of my precision ammo, but I hate to "waste" my good stuff hammering away at a 66% IPSC at 100Y at a match where I can't pick up my brass. My old standby was SA .308, it was Brass, Berdan, and shot fairly accurately out of all of my .308's [2 AR pattern rifles, 2 FAL's and a M1A]. My go-to handload being a 155 palma bullet, I would like to stay in the 150 +/- range, which brings me to the Federal M80 Bulk pack:
Forgive me for the CTD link, it was google's first choice.. A couple local shops have this available, and the price, while not good, is at least cheaper than 20 round commercial .308 ammo. The only thing stopping me from buying a case or 2 to try is the comparatively bad rep that the XM193 and XM855 have for accuracy or lack thereof. Is the XM80 the same story or is it comparable to the more accurate surplus ammo of yesteryear? I don't need 1/4 MOA, but if it's 4-5MOA then it's not worth it, because TULAMMO or Wolf MC will do that... As a secondary question, are the primers on this crimped or sealed? If I do have the opportunity to retrieve some of this, how easy will it reload? |
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Quoted:
What steel-cased .308 have you tried? I have had good luck with (very old) Chinese .308, and Barnaul's stuff is supposed to be pretty good too. LOL If I still had a stock of the old copper washed chicom .308, I would be shooting it.... The steel stuff I have tried has been Black box Wolf [weak, inconsistant], Wolf Classic [more consistant, 4 MOA but seeing reports of blowed up guns], Tulammo [Light, ~2500fps out of 18" bbl, 4-5 MOA] and Herters [only had a bit, but it was DIRTY!!!]. I have never seen Barnaull on sale locally, and so far I haven't been willing to mailorder it for the same price as POF surplus. |
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Quoted: try silver bear, just as good groups as the surplus brass. The tula and herters are garbage IMO. The new MFS is okay as well.Quoted: What steel-cased .308 have you tried? I have had good luck with (very old) Chinese .308, and Barnaul's stuff is supposed to be pretty good too. LOL If I still had a stock of the old copper washed chicom .308, I would be shooting it.... The steel stuff I have tried has been Black box Wolf [weak, inconsistant], Wolf Classic [more consistant, 4 MOA but seeing reports of blowed up guns], Tulammo [Light, ~2500fps out of 18" bbl, 4-5 MOA] and Herters [only had a bit, but it was DIRTY!!!]. I have never seen Barnaull on sale locally, and so far I haven't been willing to mailorder it for the same price as POF surplus. as to the m80, its good ammo, can be a copper or bimetal bullet so keep that in mind. yes its crimped and you need to process it like any other surplus. The newer M80 is not near as consistent as the old M80. The brass varies a lot more than the older WRA/LC stuff. To tell you the truth Ive really given up on Brass cased 7.62/308. Much of the newer brass is not that good (maybe privi as and exception) but for the most part its not worth paying the price for brass surplus or time prepping the shitty brass when silver bear will give me the same groups at a lot less of a cost. I really didn't know how inconsistent the new brass was until I got a hold of a bunch of WRA/ old LC brass and reloaded that. It is night and day as far as the quality form the old stuff to now. I have my good brass and thats gets reloaded with 155s or 175s and the plinking stuff is now all steel. Ive gone this route for 5.56 as well as 7.62 |
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Are we allowed to link Sportsman's Guide? I'm not sure what vendors are out-of-favor here.
Anyway...@ Sportsman's Guide - Portuguese 7.62x51mm 146gr Ball NC Brass Berdan Late 70s / Early 80s Battlepacks and Linked in can. The battle packs came back in stock within the last couple of days...HERE NOTE: Mild surface corrosion/oxidation. Only one OCD reviewer pissed about the surface crap...everybody else good/great reviews. I ordered some this weekend. |
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Quoted: Quoted: What steel-cased .308 have you tried? I have had good luck with (very old) Chinese .308, and Barnaul's stuff is supposed to be pretty good too. LOL If I still had a stock of the old copper washed chicom .308, I would be shooting it.... The steel stuff I have tried has been Black box Wolf [weak, inconsistant], Wolf Classic [more consistant, 4 MOA but seeing reports of blowed up guns], Tulammo [Light, ~2500fps out of 18" bbl, 4-5 MOA] and Herters [only had a bit, but it was DIRTY!!!]. I have never seen Barnaull on sale locally, and so far I haven't been willing to mailorder it for the same price as POF surplus. please provide data on Wolf Classic and "blowed up guns". I have not noticed any difference in accuracy between various surplus 7.62x51mm NATO (Argentine, German, Portuguese) and Wolf (all the Wolf .308 I have is Wolf black box whic IIRC is Barnaul). None of it is match ammo. You also didn't mention Silver Bear. |
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Quoted:
What steel-cased .308 have you tried? I have had good luck with (very old) Chinese .308, and Barnaul's stuff is supposed to be pretty good too. LOL If I still had a stock of the old copper washed chicom .308, I would be shooting it.... The steel stuff I have tried has been Black box Wolf [weak, inconsistant], Wolf Classic [more consistant, 4 MOA but seeing reports of blowed up guns], Tulammo [Light, ~2500fps out of 18" bbl, 4-5 MOA] and Herters [only had a bit, but it was DIRTY!!!]. I have never seen Barnaull on sale locally, and so far I haven't been willing to mailorder it for the same price as POF surplus. Old Black Box Wolf and Herters are made by Tula...which may say all you need to hear. I have never heard of Wolf Classic blowing up anything; it's made at Ulyanovsk, which has a much better rep than Tula. As far as I'm concerned, Tula's ammo is good for getting reloadable steel cases off the range (their .223, .45, and .40 are Boxer primed, but sadly their 9mm and 7.62x39mm are all Berdan primed). Barnaul makes Brown Bear, Silver Bear, and Golden Bear lines, they make Monarch Steel (for Academy Sports), and they market under their own name. I have fired a metric buttload of their .223/5.56, and it's been great. I've also gone through plenty of their steel-cased 9mm and also had good results. |
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Quoted:
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What steel-cased .308 have you tried? I have had good luck with (very old) Chinese .308, and Barnaul's stuff is supposed to be pretty good too. LOL If I still had a stock of the old copper washed chicom .308, I would be shooting it.... The steel stuff I have tried has been Black box Wolf [weak, inconsistant], Wolf Classic [more consistant, 4 MOA but seeing reports of blowed up guns], Tulammo [Light, ~2500fps out of 18" bbl, 4-5 MOA] and Herters [only had a bit, but it was DIRTY!!!]. I have never seen Barnaull on sale locally, and so far I haven't been willing to mailorder it for the same price as POF surplus. Old Black Box Wolf and Herters are made by Tula...which may say all you need to hear. I have never heard of Wolf Classic blowing up anything; it's made at Ulyanovsk, which has a much better rep than Tula. As far as I'm concerned, Tula's ammo is good for getting reloadable steel cases off the range (their .223, .45, and .40 are Boxer primed, but sadly their 9mm and 7.62x39mm are all Berdan primed). Barnaul makes Brown Bear, Silver Bear, and Golden Bear lines, they make Monarch Steel (for Academy Sports), and they market under their own name. I have fired a metric buttload of their .223/5.56, and it's been great. I've also gone through plenty of their steel-cased 9mm and also had good results. I concur. Barnaul has always been top notch...some of the best from Russia. There was a time when the Barnaul Blue-Box 7.62x39mm was highly prized and considered the best available at the time. Still have a case or two. I never committed much inventory to the Black Box Wolf...1 case remaining? No purchases of any Herters. Bryan at AIM says the new Barnaul Wolf WPA is a totally different animal...pardon the pun...and highly recommends. I have 0 Tula product...love the Golden Tiger and Ulyanovsk is GTG. |
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