AR Sponsor
Posted: 8/18/2011 5:36:18 PM EDT
|
Tested using gallon water bottles today, from ten yards to a hundred meters. DAG 95E0325 7.62x51 frags nicely, and barely makes it through four gallon jugs of water at 100 meters. All four jugs were blown into smaller pieces. Not much left of the bullet. MEN 93 C0007 7.62x51 made it through all four jugs at 100 meters easily and was intact. The MEN bullet was badly deformed. I was surprised at the damage it did to the water jugs, and it was easy to tell that it had turned sideways in the first jug, leaving the last one sideways also before plowing into a piece of wood used as a backstop.
At ten yards against 4 jugs, the DAG bullet was vaporized along with the bottles, and the MEN bullet blew through all the jugs and wooden backstops and went on it's way out into the desert. The MEN bullet did not upset and drilled straight through everything this time. Accuracy was great with both types, and function was perfect. All rounds were fired through a SCAR 17s. I did not have my chrono set up this time, but felt recoil feels identical to Port. and other NATO crossed ammunition in this caliber that I have fired through this rifle. Both MEN and DAG fired to the same point of aim. Good engineering. I pulled bullets from both types and although the weight of the bullets and powder charges is identical, the MEN bullet is different in profile from the DAG. The MEN has a larger base, and less of an angle on it's boat tail. |
|
From Fackler (http://www.uthr.org/SpecialReports/Military_rifle_bullet_wound_patterns.htm):
The construction of the West German 7.62 mm NATO bullet differs from the US 7.62 mm NATO round in that, the jacket material is copper plated steel, whereas the US version is copper (or the so called gilding metal alloy, which is predominantly copper). The West German steel jacket is about 0.6mm thick near the cannelure and the US copper jacket is about 0.8mm thick at the same point. This design difference is responsible for a vast difference in performance in tissue. The German bullet, after travelling point-forward for only about 8 cm, yaws and breaks at the cannelure. The flattened point section retains only about 66 % of the bullet's weight, the remaining 45 % mass becomes fragments (Fig. 8). The wound profile can be described as an enlarged M16 profile (Fig. 3), with dimensions of the tissue disruption increased by 60 % (temporary stress cavity about 22 cm diameter; permanent crush cavity about 11 cm diameter, penetration depth of the bullet point about 58 cm). The uncomplicated thigh wound from this bullet is likely to have a large exit with the loss of substantial tissue near the exit; still, this might not be a very serious wound since the bullet fragmentation does not occur until beyond 10 cm penetration depth and, in most shots, the bullet will have passed well beyond the major vessels before this occurs. The abdomen shot, however, because of the much enlarged permanent cavity from bullet fragmentation, is likely to prove fatal in a majority of cases. |
Done. Bullets miked. 95 DAG, 57 DAG, 93 MEN, and 76 Portuguese. All three German bullets = 20 thou. Port= 22 thou. The Dags had a more pronounced crimp groove then the MEN. The bullet jacket material of both the DAGs and the MEN was brittle, compared to the Port. When bending the jackets with a pair of pliers, the German jackets broke easily, the Port. bent. conclusions, A) The design of the German bullet for their 7.62x51 NATO was never intended to fragment. B) DAG's deeper crimp groove and slightly different bullet design happens to break apart on impact, but it never was intended to. C) At the time the DAGs were found out, (some years ago now), the European's were busy bitching about our 'lethal' M-16 round. Even though DAG fragmenting was somewhat common knowledge here in the USA in those days, the German's did a fine job keeping their ammo's nasty tendencies quiet. D) DAG had a great bullet design that met all the German army specs., and they saw no reason to change it, so they didn't for the most part. My opinion, for what it's worth.
|
|
Quoted:
From Fackler (http://www.uthr.org/SpecialReports/Military_rifle_bullet_wound_patterns.htm): The construction of the West German 7.62 mm NATO bullet differs from the US 7.62 mm NATO round in that, the jacket material is copper plated steel, whereas the US version is copper (or the so called gilding metal alloy, which is predominantly copper). The West German steel jacket is about 0.6mm thick near the cannelure and the US copper jacket is about 0.8mm thick at the same point. This design difference is responsible for a vast difference in performance in tissue. The German bullet, after travelling point-forward for only about 8 cm, yaws and breaks at the cannelure. The flattened point section retains only about 66 % of the bullet's weight, the remaining 45 % mass becomes fragments (Fig. 8). The wound profile can be described as an enlarged M16 profile (Fig. 3), with dimensions of the tissue disruption increased by 60 % (temporary stress cavity about 22 cm diameter; permanent crush cavity about 11 cm diameter, penetration depth of the bullet point about 58 cm). The uncomplicated thigh wound from this bullet is likely to have a large exit with the loss of substantial tissue near the exit; still, this might not be a very serious wound since the bullet fragmentation does not occur until beyond 10 cm penetration depth and, in most shots, the bullet will have passed well beyond the major vessels before this occurs. The abdomen shot, however, because of the much enlarged permanent cavity from bullet fragmentation, is likely to prove fatal in a majority of cases. Deleted per 1Devildog's correction below. dcat |
|
Quoted:
Done. Bullets miked. 95 DAG, 57 DAG, 93 MEN, and 76 Portuguese. All three German bullets = 20 thou. Port= 22 thou. The Dags had a more pronounced crimp groove then the MEN. The bullet jacket material of both the DAGs and the MEN was brittle, compared to the Port. When bending the jackets with a pair of pliers, the German jackets broke easily, the Port. bent. conclusions, A) The design of the German bullet for their 7.62x51 NATO was never intended to fragment. B) DAG's deeper crimp groove and slightly different bullet design happens to break apart on impact, but it never was intended to. C) At the time the DAGs were found out, (some years ago now), the European's were busy bitching about our 'lethal' M-16 round. Even though DAG fragmenting was somewhat common knowledge here in the USA in those days, the German's did a fine job keeping their ammo's nasty tendencies quiet. D) DAG had a great bullet design that met all the German army specs., and they saw no reason to change it, so they didn't for the most part. My opinion, for what it's worth. Similar situation existed for years with the Swiss 5.56 ammo - they designed the bullet to be very unstable and to fragment. Then the French-speaking libtards in Switzerland got involved and they now have a "more humane" 5.56 round. I thought the whole point of rifle ammunition issued to armies was to kill people and if it works effectively and spectacularly then so much the better. Kinda explains why I go bad grades in "Citizenship" from the socialists that ran my pubic school. rant mode off, dcat |
AR Sponsor