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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - .300AAC BLACKOUT (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 10/2/2010 8:39:49 AM EDT
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Is this new, just heard about this and sounds too good to be true. http://300aacblackout.com/ <Edited title to be more accurate - Z> |
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What's too good to be true about it? Slightly better ballistics than 7.62x39? 2 MOA capable? I'm not impressed. Now 6.5 grendel, that's a good round and it's actually available. slightly better than 7.62x39, fits in my pmags and uses the same bolt and bcg thats in my AR right now, just need to change the barrel. Sounds pretty good to me |
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Quoted: And it already exists. It's called the 300 whisper.Quoted: What's too good to be true about it? Slightly better ballistics than 7.62x39? 2 MOA capable? I'm not impressed. Now 6.5 grendel, that's a good round and it's actually available. slightly better than 7.62x39, fits in my pmags and uses the same bolt and bcg thats in my AR right now, just need to change the barrel. Sounds pretty good to me |
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So I'm guessing this round is going to cost no less that $1 a round.
So instead of shooting match grade ammo for the same cost, you can shoot 2 MOA accurate ammo. That totally outweighs having to buy a new bolt and a new mag..... It's the newest thing so everyone has to have it I guess. I read that it's good so it must be. |
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Quoted: Its just the remington 30AR rebranded as an AAC product. I don't get why people are so exicted about this? Its been out for over a year now, but they put AAC on it, and now everyone has to have it???  30RAR is based on the .284 case. It is not the same, not even close. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Its just the remington 30AR rebranded as an AAC product. I don't get why people are so exicted about this? Its been out for over a year now, but they put AAC on it, and now everyone has to have it??? 30RAR is based on the .284 case. It is not the same, not even close. It looks really close to the 300 Whisper though. |
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Quoted: It is close to the .300 Whisper in ballistics, but this round has the backing of a major .gov contractor, freedom group, I think thats what most are pointing to as the major difference The one thing that always kept me away from the 300 Whisper is that there was virtually no factory offerings. I would be interested in this were it to actually take off. I find the 6.8 more useful though. |
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Quoted from AAC's facebook fan page
"Remington 300 AAC BLACKOUT ammo is specifically designed to be a reliable system for the AR platform. It was submitted to SAAMI and other ammo companies will be able to make ammo also, royalty-free. Likewise, many gun companies will be announcing 300 AAC BLACKOUT guns between now and the Shot Show." Big plus right there |
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Quoted: Quoted from AAC's facebook fan page "Remington 300 AAC BLACKOUT ammo is specifically designed to be a reliable system for the AR platform. It was submitted to SAAMI and other ammo companies will be able to make ammo also, royalty-free. Likewise, many gun companies will be announcing 300 AAC BLACKOUT guns between now and the Shot Show." Big plus right there Agreed that was JD Jones big mistake, still I am going to adopt the wait and see posture |
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Quoted from AAC's facebook fan page "Remington 300 AAC BLACKOUT ammo is specifically designed to be a reliable system for the AR platform. It was submitted to SAAMI and other ammo companies will be able to make ammo also, royalty-free. Likewise, many gun companies will be announcing 300 AAC BLACKOUT guns between now and the Shot Show." Big plus right there Cool... Might be a smash hit, like .45 GAP! 
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It is close to the .300 Whisper in ballistics, but this round has the backing of a major .gov contractor, freedom group, I think thats what most are pointing to as the major difference Agreed. Its also submitted to SAAMI, and with a standard it will have the ability to become much more mainstream. As more weapons and ammunition come online with this cartridge, it will pick up quickly. I do not expect ammunition prices to be obscene on this either. For guys guessing over a buck a round, I think you are missing how serious Remington is with this. I expect to see it for less. 55 grain vs 220 grain 300 AAC. 
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Its just the remington 30AR rebranded as an AAC product. I don't get why people are so exicted about this? Its been out for over a year now, but they put AAC on it, and now everyone has to have it??? Nope, try again... 7.62x35 or something like that, so definitely not based off the .284 parent case like the 30RAR is. Uses standard bolt/mags/etc... |
| Those who don't see the benefit are missing the point. Like its .300 Whisper brother, the .300 BLK fulfills a very specific niche: it launches large, aerodynamic bullets at subsonic velocities for use in suppressed platforms. It cycles the action on an AR and represents the ultimate in a hard-hitting, accurate, quiet semi-auto suppressed weapon. Aside from the 220 gr. subsonic loading, there are also lighter supersonic loadings to choose from, which duplicate 7.62x39 ballistics (but with .308 bullets, giving reloaders a much more broad range of projectiles to choose from). Another plus, as others have mentioned, is parts compatibility ––- the only difference between it and a 5.56 AR is the barrel. |
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Those who don't see the benefit are missing the point. Like its .300 Whisper brother, the .300 BLK fulfills a very specific niche: it launches large, aerodynamic bullets at subsonic velocities for use in suppressed platforms. It cycles the action on an AR and represents the ultimate in a hard-hitting, accurate, quiet semi-auto suppressed weapon. Aside from the 220 gr. subsonic loading, there are also lighter supersonic loadings to choose from, which duplicate 7.62x39 ballistics (but with .308 bullets, giving reloaders a much more broad range of projectiles to choose from). Another plus, as others have mentioned, is parts compatibility ––- the only difference between it and a 5.56 AR is the barrel. and i can load them straight into my good ol' pmags 
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Quoted:
So I'm guessing this round is going to cost no less that $1 a round. So instead of shooting match grade ammo for the same cost, you can shoot 2 MOA accurate ammo. That totally outweighs having to buy a new bolt and a new mag..... It's the newest thing so everyone has to have it I guess. I read that it's good so it must be. I'm not hopping up and down about this round, but it has raised my interest. Without knowing much about about it, and reading the comments you've posted, you are simply coming across as jaded. It's ok if this ammo does nothing to raise your interest. It will raise others. Especially people who like suppressed short barrel rifles (many of whom can easily live with 2moa), which is what this round was designed to be shot from. Remington posted a projected retail price for a 20 round box of their supersonic ball round, it was somewhere in the neighborhood of $14. Actually, it was $12.99. If this turns out to be the case, chances are high it you'll be able to find it for less. Sometimes talking less says more. (edited to correct price) |
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This is appealing for hunters who use ARs. 6.8 is a bit of a cluster f#ck with the two chamber specs- its more than difficult to find factory ammo loaded to the true full power capabilities. Plus you have to deal with reduced mag capacity and proprietary mags/bolt.
With 300 Blackout you have a standard AR build minus the barrel(Great for using good commonly available bolts). You can use all of your existing mags(Pmags!). Remington is doing things right with the launch and not killing the cartridge with licensing. For me, the prospect of having an AR in what is basically a .30-30 with cheap ammo is very appealing. For such a small investment there is a lot to gain. For LE you have the prospect of significantly improved terminal and barrier performance from short barrels. Barnes has already released a run .308 projectiles optimized for the low(er) velocities in .300 BLK. Look at the growing popularity of SBRs- this cartridge enhances the capability of SBRs for the role they are suited to. Thats where the real market is. Of course I'd by lying if I wasn't slightly disappointed that this wasn't a 7mm cartridge. I, personally, would like to see a higher veloctiy 6.8-7mm that didn't need a new bolt and different mags. |
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If it were to cost the same as what you can get M855 for, maybe I would consider this round for an AR.
Other than that, for the ballistics in terms of energy, an AK is a lot cheaper to run. Especially when you consider most people don't shoot over 100-150yds (definite AK capable range). When they do shoot longer ranges, they usually pick up a .308 or bigger. It'll be interesting to see how this round plays on out the market, definitely will keep an eye on it for the time being. |
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Any gel tests on the subsonic rounds? Would there be any terminal effect benefit over a suppressed 9mm (same diameter) or .45 same weight? .308 is not the same diameter as 9mm... Hard to compare to a 9mm or .45. A subsonic 9 is a mere 147 grains vs the 220 for the .300. Much greater section density than either the 9mm or .45. Until more projectiles tailored to the .300 BLK's lower velocity come out there won't be much realistic comparison. |
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Any gel tests on the subsonic rounds? Would there be any terminal effect benefit over a suppressed 9mm (same diameter) or .45 same weight? 147 gr. vs. 220 gr., but probably not too much difference at the muzzle. The REAL difference will be 200-300yds downrange, where the 220 gr. .300 BLK, with its .655 ballistic coefficient, will still be traveling near 900 fps. The 9mm loses steam WELL before that. ETA: The .300 BLK will also be WAY more accurate than a 9mm AR. Remember: This is basically the .300 Whisper standardized. So if you're wondering about performance, look at the results others have obtained from the .300 Whisper. |
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So I'm guessing this round is going to cost no less that $1 a round. So instead of shooting match grade ammo for the same cost, you can shoot 2 MOA accurate ammo. That totally outweighs having to buy a new bolt and a new mag..... It's the newest thing so everyone has to have it I guess. I read that it's good so it must be. Which calibre are you comparing it to? |
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So I'm guessing this round is going to cost no less that $1 a round. So instead of shooting match grade ammo for the same cost, you can shoot 2 MOA accurate ammo. That totally outweighs having to buy a new bolt and a new mag..... It's the newest thing so everyone has to have it I guess. I read that it's good so it must be. Which calibre are you comparing it to? Over on another site a Remington employee working on the project was saying that the basic ball ammo was going to be ~$12 a box. |
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What's too good to be true about it? Slightly better ballistics than 7.62x39? 2 MOA capable? I'm not impressed. Now 6.5 grendel, that's a good round and it's actually available. slightly better than 7.62x39, fits in my pmags and uses the same bolt and bcg thats in my AR right now, just need to change the barrel. Sounds pretty good to me But terminal ballistics of 7.62x39 kinda sucks...... |
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What's too good to be true about it? Slightly better ballistics than 7.62x39? 2 MOA capable? I'm not impressed. Now 6.5 grendel, that's a good round and it's actually available. slightly better than 7.62x39, fits in my pmags and uses the same bolt and bcg thats in my AR right now, just need to change the barrel. Sounds pretty good to me But terminal ballistics of 7.62x39 kinda sucks...... Terminal ballistics using ball ammo does suck. Using modern expanding ammunition they are quite good... |
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What's too good to be true about it? Slightly better ballistics than 7.62x39? 2 MOA capable? I'm not impressed. Now 6.5 grendel, that's a good round and it's actually available. slightly better than 7.62x39, fits in my pmags and uses the same bolt and bcg thats in my AR right now, just need to change the barrel. Sounds pretty good to me But terminal ballistics of 7.62x39 kinda sucks...... Terminal ballistics using ball ammo does suck. Using modern expanding ammunition they are quite good... correct |
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What's too good to be true about it? Slightly better ballistics than 7.62x39? 2 MOA capable? I'm not impressed. Now 6.5 grendel, that's a good round and it's actually available. slightly better than 7.62x39, fits in my pmags and uses the same bolt and bcg thats in my AR right now, just need to change the barrel. Sounds pretty good to me But terminal ballistics of 7.62x39 kinda sucks...... Terminal ballistics using ball ammo does suck. Using modern expanding ammunition they are quite good... True enough, but all the stuff I've seen shows it still inferior to the fragmenting 5.56mm loads. Do you have something that shows an advantage? |
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This is simply an improved 300 Whisper. 2nd Generation if you will. It has overcome alot of the whispers deficiencies in both platform and marketing / ammo availability.
I will be interested now that the ammo concerns are resolved. I believe Dillon Precision is ready to make dies if they are not already. |
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This is simply an improved 300 Whisper. 2nd Generation if you will. It has overcome alot of the whispers deficiencies in both platform and marketing / ammo availability. I will be interested now that the ammo concerns are resolved. I believe Dillon Precision is ready to make dies if they are not already. Seems to exactly the case. I've seen the reamer prints for both, and there are very minimal differences. Once factory ammo & brass is available in quantity, then why will anyone bother with the other .300 Whisper & other variations of it like .300/221? |
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What's too good to be true about it? Slightly better ballistics than 7.62x39? 2 MOA capable? I'm not impressed. Now 6.5 grendel, that's a good round and it's actually available. slightly better than 7.62x39, fits in my pmags and uses the same bolt and bcg thats in my AR right now, just need to change the barrel. Sounds pretty good to me But terminal ballistics of 7.62x39 kinda sucks...... Terminal ballistics using ball ammo does suck. Using modern expanding ammunition they are quite good... True enough, but all the stuff I've seen shows it still inferior to the fragmenting 5.56mm loads. Do you have something that shows an advantage? Courtesy of Dr. Roberts: When one moves to a expanding/fragmenting design in 7.62 x 39 mm, terminal performance is significantly enhanced. The best 7.62 x 39 mm loads we have tested to date are the Winchester 123 gr JSP (X76239) and the Lapua 125 gr JSP. Out of a 16” barrel they perform somewhat like lightweight .30-30 loads: Lap 125 gr JSP Bare Gelatin: vel=2316 f/s, pen=17.3”, RD=.62”, RL=.43”, RW=122.6 gr Car Windshield: vel=2323 f/s, pen=14.8”, RD=.60”, RL=.40”, RW=110.6 gr Win 123 gr JSP Bare Gel: vel=2253 f/s, pen=14.4”, rd=0.56”, rw=90.1gr Pretty much the same results when going through car windshields. Of note, most of the “cheap” Russian JHP/JSP ammunition offers poor terminal performance. The one that seems to work is the 7.62x39mm Saspan 124 gr JHP (Ulyanovsk Machinery Plant; 8M3 bullet); from a 16” AKMS the data is: BG: vel=2297 f/s, pen=15.0”, Max TC=10cm@18cm, RD=0.63”, RW=100.5gr" Because of the larger permanent cavity and greater bullet mass, the 7.62 x 39 mm JSP’s offer somewhat better performance than the .223 bonded JSP’s, like the Trophy Bonded Bearclaw use in the Federal Tactical loads. These 7.62 x 39 mm JSP loads are a good choice for use against car windows and should also be outstanding for hunting deer and other similar size game. Keep in mind that the market for quality 7.62x39 is limited. With the different market and attention given to 300BLK(and the .308 instead of .311 projectile....) I believe there is more potential in the realm of terminal performance. |
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What's too good to be true about it? Slightly better ballistics than 7.62x39? 2 MOA capable? I'm not impressed. Now 6.5 grendel, that's a good round and it's actually available. I thought the 300 whisper was sub moa accurate? Why wouldn't/couldn't the 300BLK reach the same level of accuracy? |
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Interestingly enough, BRASSFETCHER has done a complete series of gelatin shots on this new round. Someone with quite a bit of financial backing appears to have sanctioned the tests. http://www.brassfetcher.com/index_files/Page422.htm |
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Interestingly enough, BRASSFETCHER has done a complete series of gelatin shots on this new round. Someone with quite a bit of financial backing appears to have sanctioned the tests. http://www.brassfetcher.com/index_files/Page422.htm so its basically only good for SBR's? |
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Interestingly enough, BRASSFETCHER has done a complete series of gelatin shots on this new round. Someone with quite a bit of financial backing appears to have sanctioned the tests. http://www.brassfetcher.com/index_files/Page422.htm so its basically only good for SBR's? I wouldnt say only good for SBR as much as designed around the fact that most rifles it will be used in are 16" or shorter. |
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Some of those .300 loads look pretty good despite using projectiles intended for rifles that throw them 700+ fps faster...
It will be great if Remington releases some basic soft point ammo designed for the correct velocity range. Barnes released a small lot of .308 TSX ammo designed for lower velocity expansion for the .300BLK but I haven't seen any actual gel tests using it. |
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Up to now I filled my subsonic SBR niche with 7.62x39mm. Sierra, Speer, and others make .311 versions of most of their .308 bullets so it hasn't been difficult to handload, for example, 180gr subsonics..
The real problem going subsonic is the need for increased twist rate to stabilize the heaviest bullets: You'd need at least 1:8" twist to shoot a pointy 220gr .30" bullet like AAC shows. But I have yet to see factory .30" barrels cut any faster than 1:10". So it's cool that AAC worked around the issues with .300 Whisper, but at this point I think it's more a question of who's going to put out the faster barrels and for which cartridge they'll cut the chambers. |
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Up to now I filled my subsonic SBR niche with 7.62x39mm. Sierra, Speer, and others make .311 versions of most of their .308 bullets so it hasn't been difficult to handload, for example, 180gr subsonics.. The real problem going subsonic is the need for increased twist rate to stabilize the heaviest bullets: You'd need at least 1:8" twist to shoot a pointy 220gr .30" bullet like AAC shows. But I have yet to see factory .30" barrels cut any faster than 1:10". So it's cool that AAC worked around the issues with .300 Whisper, but at this point I think it's more a question of who's going to put out the faster barrels and for which cartridge they'll cut the chambers. The barrel I have from Noveske is 1:8. I ordered it specifically for that, as I'm in 300 BLK specifically for the subsonic capabilities w/ heavy, high BC projectiles |
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Up to now I filled my subsonic SBR niche with 7.62x39mm. Sierra, Speer, and others make .311 versions of most of their .308 bullets so it hasn't been difficult to handload, for example, 180gr subsonics.. The real problem going subsonic is the need for increased twist rate to stabilize the heaviest bullets: You'd need at least 1:8" twist to shoot a pointy 220gr .30" bullet like AAC shows. But I have yet to see factory .30" barrels cut any faster than 1:10". So it's cool that AAC worked around the issues with .300 Whisper, but at this point I think it's more a question of who's going to put out the faster barrels and for which cartridge they'll cut the chambers. I have a .300/221 (or .300 Whisper as it's basically the same!) with a 1:8 twist barrel from PacNor. |
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Quoted: Interestingly enough, BRASSFETCHER has done a complete series of gelatin shots on this new round. Someone with quite a bit of financial backing appears to have sanctioned the tests. http://www.brassfetcher.com/index_files/Page422.htm There is a staggering amount of industry support behind this round. |
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Quoted: ok so a few questions, are we going to see affordable prices on this ammo and availability, and also is the only change needed a barrel swap cause if so to those i may just have a reason to get a tax stamp to make an sbr It's just a barrel swap. Magazines and bolts are totally compatible. |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - .300AAC BLACKOUT (Page 1 of 2)
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