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Posted: 1/21/2010 7:53:36 PM EDT
| I picked up about 10 boxes of XM856 Tactical Tracer Rounds made by Federal American Eagle and shot a bunch last weekend; orange tip and red tracer. After 300 meters or so the lit tracer would fly off in crazy directions making 45 degree turns into space or off to one direction into the woods. I know the bullet kept going straight because the keg we were shooting at had holes in it, but why is the tracer part breaking off and going haywire. Seems that this would be an issue for the soldiers if they couldn't track their rounds past this distance. I tried rounds from different boxes and they all did the same thing. What gives? |
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Its not the "tracer part" breaking off. It is the projectile itself ricocheting. I know what your saying but the lit tracer would sometimes do cork screws through the air after a while, they didn't stay in a straight line like a ricochet, plus we shot some into a wide open area that was dropping in grade so we could watch the tracer as far as possible so we knew they were not hitting anything, but again they started going haywire after a while. |
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Were you shooting these out of a 1:9 rifle? M856 is a very long bullet, and what you probably saw was the bullet itself becoming unstable. Your rifle's twist rate is too slow to stabilize the bullet over its entire length of flight. Yeah, I was shooting them out of a 1/9 carbine. I thought about that but just can't figure out why they cork screwed and did "S" turns in mid flight. Can an unstable bullet do that? I don't know too much about ballistics, just a recreational shooter. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Were you shooting these out of a 1:9 rifle? M856 is a very long bullet, and what you probably saw was the bullet itself becoming unstable. Your rifle's twist rate is too slow to stabilize the bullet over its entire length of flight. Yeah, I was shooting them out of a 1/9 carbine. I thought about that but just can't figure out why they cork screwed and did "S" turns in mid flight. Can an unstable bullet do that? I don't know too much about ballistics, just a recreational shooter. Yup. Once the bullet stops flying point-forward, all hell breaks loose. |
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Were you shooting these out of a 1:9 rifle? M856 is a very long bullet, and what you probably saw was the bullet itself becoming unstable. Your rifle's twist rate is too slow to stabilize the bullet over its entire length of flight. Yeah, I was shooting them out of a 1/9 carbine. I thought about that but just can't figure out why they cork screwed and did "S" turns in mid flight. Can an unstable bullet do that? I don't know too much about ballistics, just a recreational shooter. Yup. Once the bullet stops flying point-forward, all hell breaks loose. I saw a myth busters where they tried to curve bullets but even when they tumble they flew relatively straight, so I don't think a bullet can pull off the erratic turns that we witnessed. Has to be another answer. Is it possible that the flare portion could separate from the bullet? Someone else said that these probably were Gov't rejects. Sucks because I have about 8 boxes left. |
Once that bullet starts to tumble all bets are off as far as flight path is concerned.
I gave a friend some 75gr rounds to try in his 1x12 colt CAR. At 25 yds he had a 12in group and all impacted sideways I would not look to the Mythbusters for accurate firearms info. |
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Once that bullet starts to tumble all bets are off as far as flight path is concerned.
I gave a friend some 75gr rounds to try in his 1x12 colt CAR. At 25 yds he had a 12in group and all impacted sideways I would not look to the Mythbusters for accurate firearmsANY info. Fixed it |
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Quoted: I saw a myth busters where they tried to curve bullets but even when they tumble they flew relatively straight, so I don't think a bullet can pull off the erratic turns that we witnessed. Has to be another answer. Is it possible that the flare portion could separate from the bullet? Someone else said that these probably were Gov't rejects. Sucks because I have about 8 boxes left. Fail. This is not mythbusters. The path of the bullet can't be determined once it goes unstable. And yes -a bullet can do that. |
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I saw a myth busters where they tried to curve bullets but even when they tumble they flew relatively straight, so I don't think a bullet can pull off the erratic turns that we witnessed. Has to be another answer. Is it possible that the flare portion could separate from the bullet? Someone else said that these probably were Gov't rejects. Sucks because I have about 8 boxes left. Fail. This is not mythbusters. The path of the bullet can't be determined once it goes unstable. And yes -a bullet can do that. Sorry man but a bullet can't pull 90 degree turns several times in a row in mid flight. I guess I need to clarify. By "S" turns, I meant that the flare made several looping turns in different directions, traveling hundreds of feet between turns. This isn't a bullet tumbling issue, it's not possible. I am going back out this weekend and will film what I'm talking about. The rounds are on a line for 100-300 meters then the "flare" is splitting off the round and making zig-zags in the air. The round and tracer element have to be separating because we could still hear the "gong" of the empty keg when the rounds hit. This has to be a ammo manufacturing problem, maybe that is why these suddenly hit the shelves every where; they're shit. And FYI, the Mythbusters guys aren't exactly idiots, most likely more knowledgeable than us in the physics department, and they tried like hell to get a bullet to curve, changing the weight distribution of the rounds, everything they could, and although the bullets did tumble, they still followed a relatively straight path. |
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Were you shooting these out of a 1:9 rifle? M856 is a very long bullet, and what you probably saw was the bullet itself becoming unstable. Your rifle's twist rate is too slow to stabilize the bullet over its entire length of flight. Yeah, I was shooting them out of a 1/9 carbine. I thought about that but just can't figure out why they cork screwed and did "S" turns in mid flight. Can an unstable bullet do that? I don't know too much about ballistics, just a recreational shooter. Yup. Once the bullet stops flying point-forward, all hell breaks loose. Zhuk, nice catch, yeah the projectile flying off at a 45-degree angle can be a real problem. But it's possible that the tracer element is separating from the rear cup in the projectile and doing its own thing too. |
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Quoted: Zhuk, nice catch, yeah the projectile flying off at a 45-degree angle can be a real problem. But it's possible that the tracer element is separating from the rear cup in the projectile and doing its own thing too. True, true. I would anticipate the velocity of the tracer cup to drop VERY fast - that thing is light and will drop out of the sky very quickly if it weren't left in the bullet. But maybe you're right... |
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Were you shooting these out of a 1:9 rifle? M856 is a very long bullet, and what you probably saw was the bullet itself becoming unstable. Your rifle's twist rate is too slow to stabilize the bullet over its entire length of flight. Yeah, I was shooting them out of a 1/9 carbine. I thought about that but just can't figure out why they cork screwed and did "S" turns in mid flight. Can an unstable bullet do that? I don't know too much about ballistics, just a recreational shooter. Yup. Once the bullet stops flying point-forward, all hell breaks loose. Zhuk, nice catch, yeah the projectile flying off at a 45-degree angle can be a real problem. But it's possible that the tracer element is separating from the rear cup in the projectile and doing its own thing too. That has to be the answer. Like I said, I know for a fact the bullets kept straight because we heard the report of them hitting the keg. My original question was that I didn't see how these would be helpful to our soldiers if the tracer part only stayed with the bullet for a limited distance during flight. So I guess the answer is that these are bad rounds. |
| +1...Maybe they didn't pass muster at Lake City, had a bad or rejected test batch or something, and then we get to buy the whole lot of them at $0.50 a round instead of Federal having to eat it and take a loss..."hey, we'll just repackage it and sell it to the public, what do they know? We'll make even more $." |
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Were you shooting these out of a 1:9 rifle? M856 is a very long bullet, and what you probably saw was the bullet itself becoming unstable. Your rifle's twist rate is too slow to stabilize the bullet over its entire length of flight. Yeah, I was shooting them out of a 1/9 carbine. I thought about that but just can't figure out why they cork screwed and did "S" turns in mid flight. Can an unstable bullet do that? I don't know too much about ballistics, just a recreational shooter. Yup. Once the bullet stops flying point-forward, all hell breaks loose. I saw a myth busters where they tried to curve bullets but even when they tumble they flew relatively straight, so I don't think a bullet can pull off the erratic turns that we witnessed. Has to be another answer. Is it possible that the flare portion could separate from the bullet? Someone else said that these probably were Gov't rejects. Sucks because I have about 8 boxes left. Now you have an excuse to buy a new rifle with a faster twist. 
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Were you shooting these out of a 1:9 rifle? M856 is a very long bullet, and what you probably saw was the bullet itself becoming unstable. Your rifle's twist rate is too slow to stabilize the bullet over its entire length of flight. Yeah, I was shooting them out of a 1/9 carbine. I thought about that but just can't figure out why they cork screwed and did "S" turns in mid flight. Can an unstable bullet do that? I don't know too much about ballistics, just a recreational shooter. Yup. Once the bullet stops flying point-forward, all hell breaks loose. I saw a myth busters where they tried to curve bullets but even when they tumble they flew relatively straight, so I don't think a bullet can pull off the erratic turns that we witnessed. Has to be another answer. Is it possible that the flare portion could separate from the bullet? Someone else said that these probably were Gov't rejects. Sucks because I have about 8 boxes left. Now you have an excuse to buy a new rifle with a faster twist. Yeah, +1 on that too. I sold off all of my 1/9 rifles a while back and just use 1/8s and 1/7s and don't have to worry about any of the heavier ammo I like to use. I never shoot the 40-gr stuff anyway. |
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Were you shooting these out of a 1:9 rifle? M856 is a very long bullet, and what you probably saw was the bullet itself becoming unstable. Your rifle's twist rate is too slow to stabilize the bullet over its entire length of flight. Yeah, I was shooting them out of a 1/9 carbine. I thought about that but just can't figure out why they cork screwed and did "S" turns in mid flight. Can an unstable bullet do that? I don't know too much about ballistics, just a recreational shooter. Yup. Once the bullet stops flying point-forward, all hell breaks loose. I saw a myth busters where they tried to curve bullets but even when they tumble they flew relatively straight, so I don't think a bullet can pull off the erratic turns that we witnessed. Has to be another answer. Is it possible that the flare portion could separate from the bullet? Someone else said that these probably were Gov't rejects. Sucks because I have about 8 boxes left. Now you have an excuse to buy a new rifle with a faster twist. Hey man, don't encourage me. The wife is already pissed off because I bought two new pistols this month and I promised her some blinds for the house. 
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I think you are seeing the round ricocheting after hitting the target. Light travels faster the sound. So I think you are seeing the ricochet first then hearing the sound of the bullet hitting the target giving you the illusion of the tracer flying off before hitting the target.
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| Dude the same thing happen to me. Last year at my grove, I was shooting from one side of my reservoir to the other side on the bank. The bullet would hit the embankment which is a mix of clay and sand and about half the time it would ricochet about 75 feet in the air and fly away. it would make all sort of weird flying pattern. I think that is when I realized how easily an accidental shooting could happen from ricocheting. Before I actually witnessed this I would have told you that the bullet gets buried in the embankment every time. Now I am even more careful. |
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