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Originally Posted By 240shwag:
Originally Posted By Winn:
Originally Posted By 240shwag:
Originally Posted By Winn:
Originally Posted By 240shwag:
I have two 1-8 twist guns. One is 16" and the other is 20". One likes the 69g prvi, the other likes the 75g. The shorter barrel tends to stabilize the lighter loads better since it has 4" less twist. That's not really how it works. Care to elaborate how it does work? In a 16" bbl with a 1:8 twist, the bullet already has two full revolutions by the time it leaves the end of the muzzle ... and it's not going to get any more stable than that - even with "4 more inches of twist" ... The variances that you are seeing are more related to the fact that each (and every) bbl. is an "entity" unto itself. I see. Thank you. I take it most of the spin imparted onto a bullet is done in the beginning of the rifling? The spin is imparted when the rifling is engaged. A bullet that succesfully exits a 1 turn in 8 inch barrel will be spining at a rate of one turn in 8 inches of travel (see how neat the is). It does not matter if it is traveling a 3000 FPS or 50 FPS, they will still rotate at 1 turn in 8 inches. The only difference is the speed at which it reaches those 8 inches. |
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Originally Posted By itgoesboom: Any word on if the '09 lots are same velocity, or any faster? Thanks. Bought a case of the January 2009 manufacture lot, finally got to chrono it the other day. Accuracy was frankly, extremely dissapointing. Compared to factory federal 77 gr SMK, my 77 gr SMK reloads, and my 75 gr reloads using privi partizan bullets from wideners, the factory 75 gr ammo was simply not up to snuff. It was at 2-3 MOA, whereas all the other rounds were delivering performance around 1 MOA with my poor shooting skills off a bench. I'd say it's great zombie ammo, but definitely not match grade. I suspect the January 2009 manufacture date (in the post election panic) has something to do with the poor accuracy. Out of a 18" SPR barrel (Douglas blank, chambered by Compass Lake) with 1/8 twist, it was delivering 2600 FPS on average. My reloads with TAC at 24.0 gr (past Ramshot's published max) were at 2657, at 23.5 gr were at 2632.4 fps and at 23.2 gr were at 2617 fps |
I don't believe in safe queens, prada rifles, and weapons as fashion statements. YMMV.
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Originally Posted By BadassWeakling:
Originally Posted By itgoesboom:
Any word on if the '09 lots are same velocity, or any faster? Thanks. Bought a case of the January 2009 manufacture lot, finally got to chrono it the other day. Accuracy was frankly, extremely dissapointing. Compared to factory federal 77 gr SMK, my 77 gr SMK reloads, and my 75 gr reloads using privi partizan bullets from wideners, the factory 75 gr ammo was simply not up to snuff. It was at 2-3 MOA, whereas all the other rounds were delivering performance around 1 MOA with my poor shooting skills off a bench. I'd say it's great zombie ammo, but definitely not match grade. I suspect the January 2009 manufacture date (in the post election panic) has something to do with the poor accuracy. Out of a 18" SPR barrel (Douglas blank, chambered by Compass Lake) with 1/8 twist, it was delivering 2600 FPS on average. My reloads with TAC at 24.0 gr (past Ramshot's published max) were at 2657, at 23.5 gr were at 2632.4 fps and at 23.2 gr were at 2617 fps That doesnt sound right at all |
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Originally Posted By BadassWeakling:
Originally Posted By itgoesboom:
Any word on if the '09 lots are same velocity, or any faster? Thanks. Bought a case of the January 2009 manufacture lot, finally got to chrono it the other day. Accuracy was frankly, extremely dissapointing. Compared to factory federal 77 gr SMK, my 77 gr SMK reloads, and my 75 gr reloads using privi partizan bullets from wideners, the factory 75 gr ammo was simply not up to snuff. It was at 2-3 MOA, whereas all the other rounds were delivering performance around 1 MOA with my poor shooting skills off a bench. I'd say it's great zombie ammo, but definitely not match grade. I suspect the January 2009 manufacture date (in the post election panic) has something to do with the poor accuracy. Out of a 18" SPR barrel (Douglas blank, chambered by Compass Lake) with 1/8 twist, it was delivering 2600 FPS on average. My reloads with TAC at 24.0 gr (past Ramshot's published max) were at 2657, at 23.5 gr were at 2632.4 fps and at 23.2 gr were at 2617 fps That is very bad news. I bought some from Feb or Mar. 2009. I haven't shot it yet... |
| I field tested two new RRAs @ 100yards (1/8 20" SS and 1/8 16" SS) with a 2008 lot of the PPU 75-gr OTM a few weeks back and was getting 1-to-1.5 inch groups from the 20" barrel using iron sights and a bipod and 1.5-to-2 inch groups from the 16" carbine barrel using my front vertical grip as a monopod. I'm sure these groups would improve if I was using a bench rest and scope. This ammo is g2g for my weapons, including my two Colt 1/7s with 20" tubes. I guess it all comes down to what your rifle likes and doesn't like. You can't argue with either the terminal performance and/or the relatively affordability of this PPU OTM ammo, which is half the price of the Hornady 75-gr TAP. I'd like to see some ballistic gel tests on the PPU 69-gr OTM and some of the Black Hills 68-gr OTM and 69-gr SMK just as a comparison to the 75-gr stuff. |
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Originally Posted By BadassWeakling:
Originally Posted By itgoesboom:
Any word on if the '09 lots are same velocity, or any faster? Thanks. Bought a case of the January 2009 manufacture lot, finally got to chrono it the other day. Accuracy was frankly, extremely dissapointing. Compared to factory federal 77 gr SMK, my 77 gr SMK reloads, and my 75 gr reloads using privi partizan bullets from wideners, the factory 75 gr ammo was simply not up to snuff. It was at 2-3 MOA, whereas all the other rounds were delivering performance around 1 MOA with my poor shooting skills off a bench. I'd say it's great zombie ammo, but definitely not match grade. I suspect the January 2009 manufacture date (in the post election panic) has something to do with the poor accuracy. Out of a 18" SPR barrel (Douglas blank, chambered by Compass Lake) with 1/8 twist, it was delivering 2600 FPS on average. My reloads with TAC at 24.0 gr (past Ramshot's published max) were at 2657, at 23.5 gr were at 2632.4 fps and at 23.2 gr were at 2617 fps You happen to have a Lot Number handy? |
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Originally Posted By BadassWeakling:
Bought a case of the January 2009 manufacture lot, finally got to chrono it the other day. Accuracy was frankly, extremely dissapointing. Compared to factory federal 77 gr SMK, my 77 gr SMK reloads, and my 75 gr reloads using privi partizan bullets from wideners, the factory 75 gr ammo was simply not up to snuff. It was at 2-3 MOA, whereas all the other rounds were delivering performance around 1 MOA with my poor shooting skills off a bench. I'd say it's great zombie ammo, but definitely not match grade. I suspect the January 2009 manufacture date (in the post election panic) has something to do with the poor accuracy. It could be something as simple as that particular barrel just doesn't "like" that particular load. That happens sometimes (which is why we reload  ). By any chance have you shot that lot of ammo from a different barrel?
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Member of the General Population
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Originally Posted By Shrike37:
Originally Posted By BadassWeakling:
Originally Posted By itgoesboom:
Any word on if the '09 lots are same velocity, or any faster? Thanks. Bought a case of the January 2009 manufacture lot, finally got to chrono it the other day. Accuracy was frankly, extremely dissapointing. Compared to factory federal 77 gr SMK, my 77 gr SMK reloads, and my 75 gr reloads using privi partizan bullets from wideners, the factory 75 gr ammo was simply not up to snuff. It was at 2-3 MOA, whereas all the other rounds were delivering performance around 1 MOA with my poor shooting skills off a bench. I'd say it's great zombie ammo, but definitely not match grade. I suspect the January 2009 manufacture date (in the post election panic) has something to do with the poor accuracy. Out of a 18" SPR barrel (Douglas blank, chambered by Compass Lake) with 1/8 twist, it was delivering 2600 FPS on average. My reloads with TAC at 24.0 gr (past Ramshot's published max) were at 2657, at 23.5 gr were at 2632.4 fps and at 23.2 gr were at 2617 fps That is very bad news. I bought some from Feb or Mar. 2009. I haven't shot it yet... Have you tested any from your rifle yet? |
All that is necessary for Trolls to flourish, is for good men to do nothing.
In God We Trust. Everyone else needs to post data.
In God We Trust. Everyone else needs to post data.
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Originally Posted By phoenix27:
I'd like to see some ballistic gel tests on the PPU 69-gr OTM and some of the Black Hills 68-gr OTM and 69-gr SMK just as a comparison to the 75-gr stuff. In bare gel, the Black Hills 68 grain OTM load had a penetration depth of 12.1", but had a smaller temporary cavity and the tiniest bit less fragmentation by weight compared to the 75 grain loads. (IWBA) The load is on Dr. Roberts' recommended list. |
All that is necessary for Trolls to flourish, is for good men to do nothing.
In God We Trust. Everyone else needs to post data.
In God We Trust. Everyone else needs to post data.
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Thank you very much for doing this testing. I've been looking for it for a while and it appears that it's been here all along. Sounds like a great terminal performer. I'm glad I bought a few battle packs. It shoots right about one inch at 100m out of my 16" 1:9" RRA M4ish barrel. Now I need to work on developing a handload that approximates the MV of the Prvi load for practice.
Molon, what is your opinion on this load's likely terminal performance from short barrels? |
Is it 2012 yet?
I owe nothing to my brothers, nor do I gather debts from them. I ask none to live for me, nor do I live for any others. I covet no man's soul, nor is my soul theirs to covet. - Ayn Rand
I owe nothing to my brothers, nor do I gather debts from them. I ask none to live for me, nor do I live for any others. I covet no man's soul, nor is my soul theirs to covet. - Ayn Rand
| Crimped in primers shouldn't be very important for civilian use. Frankly, it doesn't matter for the military that much, but the military wants to have the absolute most reliable stuff it can get, even if Joe wants to use it for a hammer. Their obsession really is extreme. I have fired many thousands of rounds of civilian ammo with no primer crimp and have yet to have a blown primer. Could it happen? Yes. Will it? Almost certainly not. There are many loads that are recommended for defensive use that do not have crimped primers. |
Is it 2012 yet?
I owe nothing to my brothers, nor do I gather debts from them. I ask none to live for me, nor do I live for any others. I covet no man's soul, nor is my soul theirs to covet. - Ayn Rand
I owe nothing to my brothers, nor do I gather debts from them. I ask none to live for me, nor do I live for any others. I covet no man's soul, nor is my soul theirs to covet. - Ayn Rand
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Originally Posted By Delta_666:
just wondering if anyone sees a problem using this as defensive ammo since as far as i know it doesnt have crimped in primers I have shot thousands of rounds of this stuff and have never seen a blown primer. The only blown primers Ive seen have come from reloads. |
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I chrono'ed some 75gr Prvi yesterday. The tag inside has the number 14 sideways and 0907 as the date code. I assume that means July of last year. The velocities out of a 16" barreled RRA with a Surefire FRA556AR suppressor measured between 2791 and 2831 for a five shot string. The rifle and ammunition were at about air temperature before testing. Sorry, I don't have all the numbers, just the top and bottom. Temperature was probably around 100 yesterday. I also compared a handload using 23.0 gr TAC under a Hornady 75gr BTHP (careful, that's near the upper end of SAAMI spec) and I got a range of 2618-2640 so a smaller extreme spread but about 150 fps slower. I've got some room before I hit the maximum charge, so I think I might give it another half grain and see if I can get closer. Although my 100 yard groups weren't as tight yesterday as they have been in the past (about two inches of vertical stringing) both loads were clearly the same POI. In the past I've gotten approximately one inch groups with that rifle and a 4x ACOG. I imagine the ammo is capable of better if I do my part. I think I've got a pretty decent training round here that will keep my costs even lower than the Prvi, allowing me to stock lots of Prvi for defense and SHTF.
According to Hornady their 75gr TAP FPD does 2790 at the muzzle, but that's with a 24" test barrel. Hornady gives the muzzle velocity of the 75gr 5.56mm T2 load as 2660 with a 16" barrel. So this Prvi stuff is actually hotter than TAP. |
Is it 2012 yet?
I owe nothing to my brothers, nor do I gather debts from them. I ask none to live for me, nor do I live for any others. I covet no man's soul, nor is my soul theirs to covet. - Ayn Rand
I owe nothing to my brothers, nor do I gather debts from them. I ask none to live for me, nor do I live for any others. I covet no man's soul, nor is my soul theirs to covet. - Ayn Rand
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Originally Posted By bluefalcon:
I chrono'ed some 75gr Prvi yesterday. . . . The velocities out of a 16" barreled RRA measured between 2791 and 2831 for a five shot string. I find it extremely difficult to believe that 75 grain Prvi fired from a 16" barrel has a higher velocity than 5.56mm 75 grain TAP fired from a 20" barrel. 
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All that is necessary for Trolls to flourish, is for good men to do nothing.
In God We Trust. Everyone else needs to post data.
In God We Trust. Everyone else needs to post data.
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Originally Posted By BroncoMafia:
My chrono testing from 16" barrels is consistent with Molon's. Something very strange about those results BlueFalcon. Not sure if this would account for such a large deviation, but did the ammo sit in the hot sun for a while before shooting it? It did not sit in the hot sun, but it was in the back of the truck, cased for the ride out. It was about the ambient temp so about 100 degrees or less, not the extremely high temperature you would get if it were left in the sun. I forgot to mention that I used a Surefire FRA556AR suppressor. I'll add this to my earlier post, but I don't think the can would add more than 20-30 fps. I certainly didn't expect the results I got, but I know what I saw. The chrono belonged to another Arfcommer and he was present. I'll see if I can get him to come on here to verify my statement. Could it be that they upped the velocity again, past the '08 specs? I have some more of the same lot left. If anyone wants to recommend other testing procedures or test it themselves, I'm game. |
Is it 2012 yet?
I owe nothing to my brothers, nor do I gather debts from them. I ask none to live for me, nor do I live for any others. I covet no man's soul, nor is my soul theirs to covet. - Ayn Rand
I owe nothing to my brothers, nor do I gather debts from them. I ask none to live for me, nor do I live for any others. I covet no man's soul, nor is my soul theirs to covet. - Ayn Rand
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Originally Posted By Molon:
Originally Posted By bluefalcon:
I chrono'ed some 75gr Prvi yesterday. . . . The velocities out of a 16" barreled RRA measured between 2791 and 2831 for a five shot string. I find it extremely difficult to believe that 75 grain Prvi fired from a 16" barrel has a higher velocity than 5.56mm 75 grain TAP fired from a 20" barrel. It is true. I was there. We were at about 2000 ft above sea level and it was at least 100 degrees out. I guess the only thing we dont know from your charts is the distance the chronograph was from the muzzle. However a differnce of + or - 5 yards should not show signifigant velocity ranges. Again, this may be explained simply because of altitude and temperature. If you send us a box of the 75 gr Hornady, we will run them side by side at our temp and altitude and see what the numbers are.
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Originally Posted By Rifleguy81:
Originally Posted By Molon:
Originally Posted By bluefalcon:
I chrono'ed some 75gr Prvi yesterday. . . . The velocities out of a 16" barreled RRA measured between 2791 and 2831 for a five shot string. I find it extremely difficult to believe that 75 grain Prvi fired from a 16" barrel has a higher velocity than 5.56mm 75 grain TAP fired from a 20" barrel. It is true. I was there. We were at about 2000 ft above sea level and it was at least 100 degrees out. I guess the only thing we dont know from your charts is the distance the chronograph was from the muzzle. However a differnce of + or - 5 yards should not show signifigant velocity ranges. Again, this may be explained simply because of altitude and temperature. If you send us a box of the 75 gr Hornady, we will run them side by side at our temp and altitude and see what the numbers are.
IM your address to me and when I get a chance I'll send you a box of the 5.56 TAP for side by side comparison, in cooler temperatures. |
All that is necessary for Trolls to flourish, is for good men to do nothing.
In God We Trust. Everyone else needs to post data.
In God We Trust. Everyone else needs to post data.
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You realize it'll be quite a while before it's cooler here, right?
I think I'll go ahead and pick up a box of TAP FPD too so we can test some at ambient air temp, some after sitting in the sun, and some in a few months after temperatures cool down, all side by side with the Prvi stuff. I can also shoot with the can and without and through different barrel lengths. I'm interested to see what caused the higher velocity. As I mentioned, it's not what I expected, either. I'll be out of town for a couple weeks, though, so if I don't get it done next week, I won't have a chance until August at the earliest. Maybe Rifleguy 81 will get a chance before then. |
Is it 2012 yet?
I owe nothing to my brothers, nor do I gather debts from them. I ask none to live for me, nor do I live for any others. I covet no man's soul, nor is my soul theirs to covet. - Ayn Rand
I owe nothing to my brothers, nor do I gather debts from them. I ask none to live for me, nor do I live for any others. I covet no man's soul, nor is my soul theirs to covet. - Ayn Rand
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Originally Posted By bluefalcon:
You realize it'll be quite a while before it's cooler here, right? I think I'll go ahead and pick up a box of TAP FPD too so we can test some at ambient air temp, some after sitting in the sun, and some in a few months after temperatures cool down, all side by side with the Prvi stuff. I can also shoot with the can and without and through different barrel lengths. I'm interested to see what caused the higher velocity. As I mentioned, it's not what I expected, either. I'll be out of town for a couple weeks, though, so if I don't get it done next week, I won't have a chance until August at the earliest. Maybe Rifleguy 81 will get a chance before then. same here on the weather,no way i'm standing out there in the heat till at least aug.I bought a few hundred rounds of 69&75grn privi match,and have not had a chance to get out on a non windy day in the last few months,now I'll have to wait a few weeks more.off hand with the privr 69grn I've shot so far,it's one of the most reliable,and accurate for the price. |
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bluefalcon, Rifleguy81,
Manuf-model of Chrono? Time of Day the 2791 and 2831 readings were taken? I would bring all the same rounds and loads you chrono'd the first time and measure them again. Try measuring 5 of the Privis at an hour between groups, to see if the sun's angle has any effect on your sensors and then results. Also, you could pull two rounds from opposite sides of the box and weigh the powder charges, to see how consistent they are in the same box. |
"A man with one AR is like a man with one arm." -me (pun intended)
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Originally posted by bluefalcon:
Hornady gives the muzzle velocity of the 75gr 5.56mm T2 load as 2660 with a 16" barrel. So this Prvi stuff is actually hotter than TAP Using the same lot of 75 grain Prvi ammunition that I tested, Dr. G.K. Roberts obtained a velocity of 2468 fps from a 16" barrel. As previously posted, the velocity that I obtained with that same lot of ammunition fired from a 16" barrel was 2462 fps. I'm not saying that anyone is lying, but that there is something abnormal occuring for there to be an increase in velocity of over 320 FPS from the same barrel length (and more than a 130 fps higher velocity than 5.56mm TAP from the same barrel length). To make the claim that "this Prvi stuff is actually hotter than TAP" is simply imprudent due to all of the contradicting data available. |
All that is necessary for Trolls to flourish, is for good men to do nothing.
In God We Trust. Everyone else needs to post data.
In God We Trust. Everyone else needs to post data.
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Originally Posted By bluefalcon:
You realize it'll be quite a while before it's cooler here, right? Take all the time that you need. The standard temperature for velocity testing is 70 degress F, plus or minus 2 degress. Naturally, we can't control the ambient temperature when chronographing outdoors, but I usually wait until the temperature is between 70-80 degrees F to conduct my chronographing sessions. |
All that is necessary for Trolls to flourish, is for good men to do nothing.
In God We Trust. Everyone else needs to post data.
In God We Trust. Everyone else needs to post data.
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Originally Posted By chris65:
bluefalcon, Rifleguy81, Manuf-model of Chrono? Time of Day the 2791 and 2831 readings were taken? I would bring all the same rounds and loads you chrono'd the first time and measure them again. Try measuring 5 of the Privis at an hour between groups, to see if the sun's angle has any effect on your sensors and then results. Also, you could pull two rounds from opposite sides of the box and weigh the powder charges, to see how consistent they are in the same box. Rifleguy will have to tell you the make and model, it's his chrono. It was about 5:30pm and all rounds were fired with about a second or two between them. My main goal was to compare to my handload. I'm trying to develop a practice round with approximately the same POI. Next time we'll set up my awning over the unit so light won't be a factor. |
Is it 2012 yet?
I owe nothing to my brothers, nor do I gather debts from them. I ask none to live for me, nor do I live for any others. I covet no man's soul, nor is my soul theirs to covet. - Ayn Rand
I owe nothing to my brothers, nor do I gather debts from them. I ask none to live for me, nor do I live for any others. I covet no man's soul, nor is my soul theirs to covet. - Ayn Rand
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Originally Posted By Molon:
Originally posted by bluefalcon:
Hornady gives the muzzle velocity of the 75gr 5.56mm T2 load as 2660 with a 16" barrel. So this Prvi stuff is actually hotter than TAP Using the same lot of 75 grain Prvi ammunition that I tested, Dr. G.K. Roberts obtained a velocity of 2468 fps from a 16" barrel. As previously posted, the velocity that I obtained with that same lot of ammunition fired from a 16" barrel was 2462 fps. I'm not saying that anyone is lying, but that there is something abnormal occuring for there to be an increase in velocity of over 320 FPS from the same barrel length (and more than a 130 fps higher velocity than 5.56mm TAP from the same barrel length). To make the claim that "this Prvi stuff is actually hotter than TAP" is simply imprudent due to all of the contradicting data available. I agree, especially considering that I didn't test them at the same time. I know that temperature and silencers can increase velocity but I didn't expect it would have much effect. My initial conclusion was that Prvi had upped the velocity again. It seems that everybody considers that to be the least likely explanation so as soon as I get back in town, I'll grab a box of TAP and a box of '09 Prvi and see what I get. It won't be 70 degrees, but both will be tested at the same time, in the same conditions. Both may measure significantly faster, but the difference between the two should be relatively accurate. When it cools down I'll do it again. |
Is it 2012 yet?
I owe nothing to my brothers, nor do I gather debts from them. I ask none to live for me, nor do I live for any others. I covet no man's soul, nor is my soul theirs to covet. - Ayn Rand
I owe nothing to my brothers, nor do I gather debts from them. I ask none to live for me, nor do I live for any others. I covet no man's soul, nor is my soul theirs to covet. - Ayn Rand
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Originally Posted By phoenix27:
Yeah, I'd love to know how to differentiate the sloooow '07 ammo from the faster '08 75-gr OTM lots. The boxes appear the same and so do the bullets. Any ideas out there on how to tell 'em apart? I would also like to see how fast the newer 69-gr PRVI OTM ammo is compared to the 75-gr OTM stuff. I think Molon has that one on the radar screen for testing in the Spring when the weather breaks up in MI, but I'd like to get some info before the price goes up or they run out of stock and would really like to know what I'm getting. Seems like no one has any info on the PRVI 69-gr OTM ammo, other than it kills hogs effectively as per another post. I just shot some 69gr. Prvi out of my 16" barreled Larue Stealth upper yesterday. It was 74 degrees outside and very windy with low humidity. Out of a 10 shot string, this is what I got: High: 2629 Low:2581 Avg: 2615 Extreme Spread: 48.22 Standard Deviation: 16.70 ETA: lot 0905 14 |
Over the valley, across the lake, through the window, 472 yards... Nothing but neck! Sniper H.O.R.S.E.
| Don't want this to slip into the archives. I still plan on doing a side by side chrono of the Prvi and the TAP. This time of year would be ideal temperature but I've been very busy and haven't had any time to get to the range. |
Is it 2012 yet?
I owe nothing to my brothers, nor do I gather debts from them. I ask none to live for me, nor do I live for any others. I covet no man's soul, nor is my soul theirs to covet. - Ayn Rand
I owe nothing to my brothers, nor do I gather debts from them. I ask none to live for me, nor do I live for any others. I covet no man's soul, nor is my soul theirs to covet. - Ayn Rand
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Originally Posted By Forgetfull:
Originally Posted By Brahmzy:
New box design. I just got 600rds of it. Haven't been able to get out with it yet... Please look closely at the crimp. Is it uniformed? Jagged? Looks like poop? The case-to-projectile crimp on the PRVI 69-gr and 75-gr OTM match rounds I inspected from various 08 lots seems to be faceted, like a hexagon or octagon, not uniformly round like the norm...anyone else out there observe that? |
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Originally Posted By phoenix27:
Originally Posted By Forgetfull:
Originally Posted By Brahmzy:
New box design. I just got 600rds of it. Haven't been able to get out with it yet... Please look closely at the crimp. Is it uniformed? Jagged? Looks like poop? The case-to-projectile crimp on the PRVI 69-gr and 75-gr OTM match rounds I inspected from various 08 lots seems to be faceted, like a hexagon or octagon, not uniformly round like the norm...anyone else out there observe that? Yes, I have two boxes of the 75 gr. sitting in front of me. Both boxes have 6 sided crimps. |
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Originally Posted By supergee:
Originally Posted By phoenix27:
Originally Posted By Forgetfull:
Originally Posted By Brahmzy:
New box design. I just got 600rds of it. Haven't been able to get out with it yet... Please look closely at the crimp. Is it uniformed? Jagged? Looks like poop? The case-to-projectile crimp on the PRVI 69-gr and 75-gr OTM match rounds I inspected from various 08 lots seems to be faceted, like a hexagon or octagon, not uniformly round like the norm...anyone else out there observe that? Yes, I have two boxes of the 75 gr. sitting in front of me. Both boxes have 6 sided crimps. I have two boxes of the 69gr from AIM that are uniform round. The ticket inside the box, the old one, not the blue, has 1002 9 printed on it for those that can decipher that. |
Most people are right some of the time, some people are right most of the time, and then some people are just always wrong.
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Originally Posted By phoenix27: Originally Posted By Forgetfull: Originally Posted By Brahmzy: New box design. I just got 600rds of it. Haven't been able to get out with it yet... Please look closely at the crimp. Is it uniformed? Jagged? Looks like poop? The case-to-projectile crimp on the PRVI 69-gr and 75-gr OTM match rounds I inspected from various 08 lots seems to be faceted, like a hexagon or octagon, not uniformly round like the norm...anyone else out there observe that? Yup I did. I'm not too happy about it. |
RIP >Chelsea King-------- http://www.facebook.com/chelseaslight?ref=mf
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I'm sorry, but I still haven't gotten around to side by side testing with the TAP, but I did chrono some more 75 gr PPU. I think the other numbers may have been due to a hotter lot or something. I'll dig back through the thread and see if I posted what the lot number was so I can see if I have any more of it. The high was 81 degrees the day of testing so temperature might have had an effect on my earlier results. Rifle was the same a 16" RRA with Surefire FA556AR mounted. Chronograph was the basic Chrony model. Anyway, here are the numbers:
2,643 2,647 2,699 2,676 2,648 _____ Avg: 2,670 I also fired a round through ballistic gelatin but the results aren't very useful because the block had been shot several times already and it had likely warmed up a bit from when the calibration was done. Nevertheless, if you're interested, here are the numbers: Penetration: 14" Max diameter: 0.594" Min diameter: 0.355" Weight: 46.4 gr Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
"I have always believed that real political discourse in the houses should involve fisticuffs. Otherwise, you have a bunch of co-conspirators or apathetic mouth breathers." - ValleyGunner
I tested this in ballistic gelatin from my 11.5" SBR. I do not use proper 250A bloom photographer's gelatin as I presume that Molon does, but my block is calibrated with a .177 BB immediately before shooting. My penetration results are almost identical to Molon's and the velocity from my 11.5" with the newer (ca. '08) batch is similar to his velocity from a 16" with the older stuff. There is no doubt in my mind that the newer 75 gr PPU is hotter.
.223 Rem Prvi Partisan BTHP fired from 11.5" AR-15 with Surefire FA556AR suppressor through 4 layers of denim. Impact velocity: 2,522 fps Penetration: 13" Temporary stretch cavity: about 4" Retained weight: 19.0 gr Can someone else please confirm the velocity of the newer stuff? |
"I have always believed that real political discourse in the houses should involve fisticuffs. Otherwise, you have a bunch of co-conspirators or apathetic mouth breathers." - ValleyGunner
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Originally Posted By CodyMitchell:
I shot the new "blue box" stuff out of my Larue 16in Stealth w/ LW bbl. got a avg of 2697 fps. Hope this helps. CM Thanks. That sounds almost identical to what I got out of a 16" barrel, accounting for minor differences in barrel and, of course, temperature. I'm glad to hear they haven't toned it back down. Hope it doesn't blow up anyone's true .223 Rem, though. That's gotta be pretty hot for .223. |
"I have always believed that real political discourse in the houses should involve fisticuffs. Otherwise, you have a bunch of co-conspirators or apathetic mouth breathers." - ValleyGunner
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I think one of the experts tested the PPU 69 gr BTHP but I don't have a link to it. Hopefully someone else can link to that test, but here's my own results on the 69 gr load. While other folks have reported better accuracy with it, it does not appear to be suitable for defense with the shallow penetration of about 11". Before completely discounting it though, I'd like to see what Doc Roberts or another professional got.
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"...Just like Costas knows OJ didn't do it because only guns kill people... with stab wounds." - A Facebook friend
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Originally Posted By bluefalcon:
I think one of the experts tested the PPU 69 gr BTHP but I don't have a link to it. Hopefully someone else can link to that test, but here's my own results on the 69 gr load. While other folks have reported better accuracy with it, it does not appear to be suitable for defense with the shallow penetration of about 11". Before completely discounting it though, I'd like to see what Doc Roberts or another professional got.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrxyuNWFrAwI bet he would say that 75gr TAP or MK262 is okay for urban envoriments, like long range open shots without any barriers. Have you looked at the nice ATK website they have geltesting of there 69 and 77gr loads as well as the better barrier loads One reason I gave up heavy OTM is that I have no control over the BG and he may use cover. I also have no problems using 5.56mm or 223rem barrier blind loads for HD. Since they dont penetrate much more than my pistol |
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