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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - XM193 review..PICS (Page 1 of 3)
Posted: 1/4/2009 2:38:35 PM EDT
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Some of you may be following the stickied thread over in troubleshooting.
My agency is having major issues w/ XM193 in our 10" CMMG guns. Main problems: primers not popping, primers falling out and jamming gun badly, poor accuracy. I headspaced my gun and it did not close on a Colt field guage. Here is XM193 and Federal AE .223 side by side. XM193 on the left... This is 25 yards, using my range bag as a rest for my VFG, about 2-seconds per shot pace. 
This test proves there are issues with the ammo, not just our guns. It may be a combination of the two. Not sure yet. FYI |
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You guys must have ended up with the most fucked up batch of XM193 ever. Yeah no shit I have not seen XM193 being shot and hitting like that. Well at least you know it is not the guns. if you can you need to see what can be done from your supplier to fix the problem like replacing all the ammo at their cost. |
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We have been having this problem over a year. It is not one batch. (We use TAP for duty ammo!) Well that is good to know, at least you don't have to worry about this ammo getting you or one of your team members hurt or killed. Wolf Military Classic groups better than that for me at 100 yards! That is insane! I would switch to TAP (depends on what your department allows you all to use, obviosuly)... |
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We get low-bid American made 55gr FMJ from "reputable manufactures" per the bid specs. In the past we have been issued Federal AE, Hornady 55gr practice, S&B, but for the last year or better it has been XM193 getting the bid. It takes quite a feat to get something off the bid list, especially when it is the cheapest. We got HSM off a few years ago, after a few guns blew up. I have shot XM193 on my own dime since 2000. I have always had success. I don't know what is up recently... |
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That's strange. I just got a new AR and after sighting in got a group within 2.5 filled the red in the center. 10 shot group, not one out of the red. Just braced my elbows on the table when shooting.
Just came back from the range about 2 hours ago and did the same exact thing. Big ragged hole in the center. XM193 is rated at 2-2.5" at 100 yards out of a military barrel. Mine is a Stag barrel with 1/9 twist. The rifle isn't truly broke in yet, would be if it was warmer out there. I figure little less than 200 rounds thru it. |
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We tested 5 more guns today (CMMG 10"). All results similar. Groups 10+" at 75 yards w/ XM193. 3" or less w/ American Eagle. Also had several primers not pop and 2 guns went down due to primers falling out and wedging b/n the bolt carrier and inside of the receiver. You have to then take the stock off to get it fixed...
However, we did run XM193 through 4 LMT 14.5" uppers and had no issues. No primer problems and good accuracy. This is gun and ammo combination issue. I'm a little stumped. We are calling CMMG tomorrow. This isnt reloads or junk ammo, it is Federal. I think the guns should be able to shoot it. Agree? |
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We tested 5 more guns today (CMMG 10"). All results similar. Groups 10+" at 75 yards w/ XM193. 3" or less w/ American Eagle. Also had several primers not pop and 2 guns went down due to primers falling out and wedging b/n the bolt carrier and inside of the receiver. You have to then take the stock off to get it fixed... However, we did run XM193 through 4 LMT 14.5" uppers and had no issues. No primer problems and good accuracy. This is gun and ammo combination issue. I'm a little stumped. We are calling CMMG tomorrow. This isnt reloads or junk ammo, it is Federal. I think the guns should be able to shoot it. Agree? Agree. Did you shoot a lot out of the LMT's just to make sure? Strange problem for sure. |
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Wow so I'm not the only one with popped primers and below average accuracy using XM193 in my expectations atleast.
I thought that the primers not igniting was due to the light weight JP FCG springs, but the ones the same ones would not ignite in my buddies LMT. My grouping were about 2'' @ 50 yards at an indoor range off a bipod. The black target and dim lighting made it hard to see the center. I was initially disappointed at the rifle/me. But when I switched to Wally World Remington .223, it was about half of that and on more than one occasion. However outdoors I managed to get 2 groups of 3 all touching with the XM193 due to the much better lighting. I was using a home built AR with a CMMG SPR 18'' chrome lined 1/8 twist bbl, FF hanguard, glass is a Millet DMS-1. Ammo Lot # P 49 W609. |
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Maybe too-fast twist combined with very short barrel. That wouldn't explain the popped/loose primers, though. I was wondering the same thing...could using a 55 grain ball in a 1:7 twist 10" barrel be a factor? I believe all CMMG's are chambered for 5.56 but since .223 works better I'd double check that too. |
| I think I would get the headspace checked (not just the field reject Gage). What do the primers that fell out look like? Sounds like an excess pressure situation. If the 193 works well in the non-CMMG guns I think you may have a very important clue right there. Chamber dimension, short throat, measure the length of fired cases as compared to new unfired ammo. Keep digging until you find the answer. |
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no crap, this is why i've stopped shooting the XM193 black box tacticrap, it shoot like 4 inch at 25 yards comparing to privi at 1 inch. Plus i had 4 primers that popped from the 400 rounds i shot. I shot a 100 rounds of Federal Tactical 5.56 with iron sights at 100M and had groups like your good 25yrd shots. My shooting buddy was surprised at how accurate it was. This was fired from my Colt 6400 with a 1/7 at 15 degrees F on New Years day. I have only fired 200 rounds of this ammo and didn't have one failure. I did however have 1 in 20 rounds that seemed to be off by 6-9 inches but I attributed that to my iron sights and my rushed shooting. If it's way worse than privi I don't want to pay $9 a box o 20. 
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I have shot various batches of the newer AE/Federal Tactical black box 5.56mm ammo thru a variety of Colt 1/7, RRA 1/8 and Bushy 1/9 AR platforms with no issues whatsover and excellent accuracy. This is my fav "available" M193/5.56mm ammo and IMHO is second only to WIN/IMI Q3131A which is the top dog with a lot of folks on this forum (but unavailable to us commoners).
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Carbine gas system. CMMG advised to clean it really well..we'll go ahead and do that I guess. They also stated some batches of XM193 are made for longer barrels and some for shorter...??? I've never heard of that. I think we'll end up having them look at the rifles eventually. Something aint right. I'll let you know what happens next. |
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Carbine gas system. CMMG advised to clean it really well..we'll go ahead and do that I guess. They also stated some batches of XM193 are made for longer barrels and some for shorter...??? I've never heard of that. I think we'll end up having them look at the rifles eventually. Something aint right. I'll let you know what happens next. CMMG is full of doo doo on that one. There is one and only one spec for M193. If the M193 shoots in your other guns fine, then there is something wrong with your gun. If it's bad in all guns, it is the ammo. It's not that hard to troubleshoot, I don't think... |
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Seems to me that the problem is CMMG and not the ammo. I just fired some sub 2MOA groups with this stuff today. 10 shots at 200 yards in 4 inches. 10 shots at 100 yards under 2 inches. My primers looked fine with no signes of over-pressure. +1 Yep. I've fired several thousand rounds of the BB XM193 through a few guns (14.5, 16 and 20") without a hitch. Get yourselves a refund and some new weapons that run. |
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Carbine gas system. CMMG advised to clean it really well..we'll go ahead and do that I guess. They also stated some batches of XM193 are made for longer barrels and some for shorter...??? I've never heard of that. I think we'll end up having them look at the rifles eventually. Something aint right. I'll let you know what happens next. 
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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - XM193 review..PICS (Page 1 of 3)
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