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Posted: 12/30/2007 6:02:03 PM EDT
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first post, yay, (i searched before i posted) anyways to make a long story short, i have a 20" bushmaster. it shoots brass ammo fine, and steel ammo such as monarch and brown bear. HOWEVER, it WILL NOT CYCLE WOLF. (62gr FMJ) it will eject the shells but the carrier does not come back far enough to grab the next round to be chambered. is there any remedy for this problem? (other than manually loading each round) the only thing i can think is that the wolf ammo has less powder than the other brands so it is not making enough pressure in the gas system to load another round. the wolf does work just fine in my brothers 16" AR, and i think that is because the gas block is further back behind the end of the barrel. i've been around AR type weapons for YEARS, but i've never had a problem quite like this. any help would be MUCH appreciated. thank you, eric |
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From what I've heard as far as the wolf is concerned is to not shoot any of it if at all possible,but, mainly stay away from and never shoot any of the stuff that has the coating on it. Kind of a lacquer coating. Think it is more of a water/weather proofing type stuff. Makes it still be good after years of storage. Keeps the powder and primer dry. Anyhow, I was told that when it is fired that stuff can and does melt off from the heat and expansion of the round firing and gets onto the chamber walls thus making the chamber walls sticky/tacky and leaves a residue making the chamber walls a little thinker over time/multiple rounds. Making the round have a little tighter fit and hinder ejection. That there is very close tolerances on them to start with. Eventually it causes the firearm to have ejection problems. That's what I was told anyhow. Now don't scold me for the words I'm about to use here all of you AR loyalist, please. lol I love my black rifle and enjoy shooting these other two I'm about to mention. And since I own the other two (Yes an AK and an SKS) I also inquired as to them and the Wolf ammo and when I inquired as to whether or not it did the same to them I was informed for some reason it doesn't seem to affect those as much or as often. I was told that if those types were not regularly or properly cleaned and maintained that over time it would more then likely also begin to affect them and cause ejection problems. I was also told that more then likely this was due to the tolerances on most of the "Eastern Block" countries rifles weren't or aren't as tight as they are on American made rifles. So it takes a little longer to affect them. Hope this helps. I only remember this because I just inquired to a few different dealers about this same ammo about 2 weeks ago because of a good price that was being offered on it. The only constant that came up about the Wolf ammo was the kind that has a green casing and appears to be coated with a lacquer type substance, all as mentioned above... Glock_Meister |
I agree with this 100%
This line however just gave me a horrble case of gas... 
This statement has been proven false and just internet rumor. Both Troy and Old Painless have proven that the polymer does not melt into your chamber. The steel case does not expand as well as brass and the "poly" you think you see is really carbon build up. When the case does not expand to seal the chamber the carbon get buy and sticks to the chamber. When it builds up too much the shell sticks. go here - Box O Truth and read it yourself. |
Well, I was going to post this, but you beat me to it.  To the Original Poster, if it won't shoot Wolf, don't use Wolf. Sorry, but them's the breaks.  |
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First off, I do not shoot Wolf on any sort of regular basis, I only keep a batch to test on any new upper I buy. I say upper because the lower has absolutely nothing to do with it except the buffer and spring. Here's my rule: I take a rifle to the range, break it in with 500 rounds. Than I take 10 mags with as many different types of ammo as I can get my hand on (a few would be Wolf of various vintage) and I dump all of it through the rifle. Either all that ammo gets dumped without problems or the rifle gets dumped. I've had uppers that wouldn't cycle PMC, other that did not feed Radway Green, some didn't like Wolf and they all have something in common: I do not own any of them anymore. Not the best answer I know, but I am unforgiving when it comes to stuff like that. The diet I feed my AR's comprises of 90% M855 so I use better ammo than most on this board. That said, if my rifles can't eat shitty ammo when I need it to, it isn't worth shooting my expensive ammo through either. Because, one day, when hell freezes over, I run out of M855 (or anything else decent) and have to defend my life with Wolf, I'd like to know that it wouldn't be a problem. |
Ya, I don't completely buy the Wolf is crap arguement. It's cheap ammo and it's dirty ammo I'll agree with that. But it runs 100% in my Colt's and LMT's and allows me to shoot A LOT more than if I only bought "good" ammo. I keep good ammo on hand for my SS barreled upper since these are precision uppers. All being said, Wolf is underpowered and if your upper won't cycle it try a lighter spring or buffer (if your using anything heavier than a Carbine buffer). |
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No more Wolf for me. If you get you weapon hot enough & leave a fresh round in the chamber it will usually stick. carbon or coating who cares. I have had a blown bolt & extractor with the stuff. The last straw was when a unfired cartridge was out of speck & stuck in a hot chamber. I spent 3 hours taking the weapon apart to safely remove stuck round. Since I stopped shooting the stuff I've been trying to get all the fowling out of the barrel. I'm on my third cleaning to get copper or what ever they put in the jacket material out of the barrel. It works ok in the AK, But still a pain to clean. |
+100. Thanks -- I was afraid I was going to have to post this AGAIN. 
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The newer, Laquer coated stuff doesn't have that problem anymore. The older, Polymer coated ammo had a tendency to stick in chambers. ETA - if it's carbon in the chamber then why does the newer ammo not exibit the same issues the older ammo did?? I had problems with the Polymer ammo, never had an issue with the new stuff.. |
+1 on this...I always break in my guns with decent ammo but after that whatever a I can get my hands on (Usually cheap wolf). Never have had a problem... |
I like your thinking.
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I dont think the issue is that people are telling him that it is crap ammo but the fact is that it is NOT working in his rifle and telling him it does in yours does not fix that problem. Like it or not Wolf is not top of the line ammo and if it works for you that is fine, but if it is not for him then he probably shouldnt be shooting it right? Or at least needs to get the problem fixed. |
So did you actually read my whole post before responding to me?? The last part tells him to try different springs and buffers to see if the ammo will cycle. Sorry if I offended you by telling him the ammo is not as bad as "ammo snobs" will lead you to beleive. Not everyone wants to waste M855 for plinking. |
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First off people having problems with stuck cases..no ones saying how they maintain and upkeep the weapon,chromelined chamber and bore?what kind of mags?old ones new ones?....too many variables.I use wolf in my 9mm buffered carbine with a CMMG chromelined soccom barrel..I ran a couple hundred rounds of good brass first and then the wolf...no problems.The problem with the older stuff wasnt the laquer but the sealent used at the case neck...never had any problems with the old stuff as long as I cleaned,maintained and lubed the rifle well. Not everyone maintains their weapons to the same degree or uses quality components so its a toss up when problems occur...I will say like a few others have said..if wolfs the only ammo available to feed a rifle in a bad situation..natural disater,zombies or you find yourself with will smith in lower manhattan..and it wont eat wolf..change components or change the rifle.I only use Colt MP bolts,x power springs and les baer chromed extractors..it works well in my carbines so I dont know about 20" rifles.The problem can be solved by them just powering up the ammo. |
Go read the post: Shooting Wolf in an AR Poly or Lacquer, makes no difference, as the "coating" isn't the problem. |
| With Wolf ammo, I've had trouble with fired cases sticking in a couple of my AR's that did'nt have chrome lined chambers. I built-up 2 with chrome lined chambers & bbls just for shooting Wolf thru, both (16"&20") run fine. With todays ammo prices, I'll plink w/Wolf and save the good stuff. JMO! |
| well everyone, i had an extra buffer and spring laying around so i took it out to the shop and chopped it down about an inch and a half, and it will now cycle wolf just fine. i guess when i shoot wolf i will just use my short spring, and then put the stock spring back in when i shoot "regular" ammo. i hope this helps anyone else who has the same problem. |
Good to hear. Like I said above, there is nothing wrong with shooting Wolf if your carbine will cycle it. I would rather shoot more often with Wolf, than once in a while with good stuff. Training with "crappy" ammo trumps minimal training with "quality" ammo anytime. |
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I don't think it's the ammo or your buffer spring. That being said I don't think you fixed the actually problem. I ran xm193 through one of my Bushmasters with no problems but when I switched to Radway it wouldn't cycle reliably, I ran through everything as in running it wet, making sure it was clean, making sure it wasn't the ammo, etc. I got sick of wasting ammo trying to figure out what was going on so I sent it in to Bushmaster for them to fix and it was a leaky gas key. They installed a new one, sent it back and all is well, it eats even that "horrible" wolf ammo up with no problem. If I were you I would send it in so that it can run like it's supposed to. It's your rifle with the problem, not the ammo. |
Not always the case, Wolf is UNDERPOWERED and is known to have issues cycling some weapons. Pretty good chance there is nothing wrong with the gun. |
Not sure what it has to do with chrome lining but both of the Bushmasters I have that I run Wolf through have no problem eating the stuff up and this is the black box type, not the MC. Those are both chrome lined. Again, the one I had issues with and thought it was the ammo until I sent it back and it's been fine. The other has only been fed Wolf right out of the box brand new without a single issue which I was surprised to be honest but only because of the whole break in thing. |
| My 20in 1/9 5.56 chrome lined Bushmaster will cycle everything under the sun except WOLF 55gr poly. My rifle short strokes every round. Bang... clik, tap/rack, Bang... click, tap/rack. It is good for failure drills now. That's what I use it for now. I have a buddy with a mini-14 I might unload the other 820rd on. |
I think you have that backwards. The newer steel cased Wolf ammo is gray, with a polymer coating. Older Wolf steel cased ammo is green, with a lacquer coating. It seems that both had a tendency to generate reports of sticking in chambers, but there seems to be enough evidence that it isn't due to the coatings. There doesn't seem to be any consensus on what the problem is. Chrome lined chambers seem to have less issues, as do 5.56 chambers. |
Your right, I've stated that so many times I got it backwards! |
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