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Posted: 8/19/2006 12:51:38 PM EDT
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I was at the range today and shot some of this stuff for the first time through my Armalite/Stag M4 franken rifle and had quite a few FTF. About 1 in 4 rounds got hung up on the feed ramp. The magazines used were 2 brand new DSG (D+H) with Magpul followers and stainless steel springs. Not sure if it was the mags or rifle but I suspect it was the hollow point getting hung up. Has anybody else had this problem with the WOlf hollow point ammo? JMN69 |
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Absolutely not. In an act of experimentation/revenge, I put over 4k of Wolf 55grn HP's through an Armalite M15A3 20 inch. This gun had a ton of gremlins and I could never get it just right, but it was reliable, so I decided to subject it to a test to see just how reliable AR's can be. I fired all of these rounds over the course of a month in a dirt parking lot, without a single cleaning. I did have a few bolt over base issues, but this was caused by the same defective magazine, not the weapon. Besides having to use the F/A, there wasn't a single problem, except the 3hrs it took to get the weapon clean. I have found Wolf to be some of the most reliable practice ammo availible and I can't recall a time where I have had a single issue with any Wolf ammunition, caliber/bullet type not withstanding. Has your "frankenrifle" had any feed ramp work? |
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Ive heard nothing but bad stuff about wolf ammo till the guys above post. Ive heard its dirty as hell, has a tendency for bad primers, load problems... and most indoor ranges i know of wont let ya shoot it on their range. but im a n00b with wolf as ive never bothered to buy a single round and wouldent even think of using it in my rifle for the simple fact that i care about my rifle and would be pissed if that dirty wolf crap screwed it up somehow. but if Ryno_the_wyno says its good practice ammo maybe ill have to pick up a box or two. i know the gander mountain near me used to carry it but stopped for some reason and hasent had a single box on their shelves sence. 
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| I have about 500 rounds thru my RRA tac entry. Only 1 bad primer, no other problems. Don't know if it's dirty or not, but I do a quick cleaning after every trip (nothing major - brush the chamber out and run a bore snake thru it. At the old prices (around $120 per 1000) it was good plinking ammo, but with the recent price increases, I've decided to go with the HSM range ammo at $170/k. I still have 500 rounds of Wolf left, and I'm not worried a bit about using it. I do run a mag of "good stuff" (AE223) before I leave the range. |
1) Have you tried other ammo through this rifle, keeping the rest of the components identical? If it works with other ammo, then it narrows it down to Wolf being the problem. If other ammo malfs, then you have more troubleshooting to do. 2) Put a single round in the mag and fire it. Does the bolt lock back? If not, your rifle is short-stroking. Do you have extra power recoil springs? Do you have a weaker spring you can try? It's a little too early to claim it's just the Wolf. Let me know some more details. |
I run into the same problem with my WOLF 62 Grain Copper FMJ. It turned out to be the two BRAND NEW mags I bought. Same as yours with the MagPul follower. Once the springs inside the mags got fully depressed a few times they worked flawlessly with the WOLF ammo. Try another mag. I bet that's all it will take for you to enjoy your wolf ammo. Only thing I didn't like about it is the cleaning, but that can be fun too  |
| My indoor range only allows HP or Sp ammo, so I almost always shoot Wolf in my AR's. I have fired well over 7,000 rounds with no ammo related problems. 6k of those rounds were the old laquar stuff, 4k rounds of that were fired from my wife's Bushmaster M4. I fired over 1k rounds through my Colt over the course of two days without cleaning. My wife fired 500 rounds back to back mags through my Colt in less than an hour once, the barrel was smoking hot, no problems. Please note that I have 7 AR's including Model 1 Sales and M&A builds, no trouble with any of them. |
It is the MAGS. Trust me. I have a ton of the D&H with the magpuls and stainless springs - and they all did that. They exhibited the behaviror worst of all with steel cased ammo. They have very sharp feedlips, and there were countless threads on this issue when the mag wars were going on and people were blowing out the D&H inventory. On the bright side - they break in after a few mags full, especially with steel cased ammo. You might have to debur the feedlip - it is sharp on the underside of the edge - where it contacts the ammo. You will notice it the most upon releaseing the carrier from the bolt release.... not typically as much during live fire. However, when we tried to use my mags to feed wolf through an M16 - we had tons of problems with the new mags. |
Please dont re-iterate what you hear.... There must be 10 threads a week that at some point break down to discussing the lovers and haters of ammo. Most people who consistently say it is garbage have never used it... and simply bash it because of what they hear - most of which is mytholigy.
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I bet they were D&H mags. My experience has been it isnt the springs - it is the feedlips breaking in - the sharp burr creates too much friction while stripping a fresh round from the mag. Then, as soon as the bullet tip comes into contact with the feedramp, this adds more friction because now the bullet would be guided up the ramp. The combination of these two activities overcomes the inertia of the carrier, and the bullet appears to hang on the feedramp. As soon as the burr is worn down, this behavior is reduced or eliminated. |
Well, i did not post entirly to bash Wolf as an ammo manufacturer. i just said i had heard nothing good about their products untill this thread. the only info i had on wolf came from ppl who used it as i had never. all the stories i heard about it being cheap and unreliable sounded like they could be founded in truth. hell... maybe its just the fact that its russian made and for some crazy reason i dident want to support the commies.  j/k. the only first hand experience i had with wolf ammo was when i worked in shipping and recieving at gander mtn. i handled hundreds of rounds of 7.62 wolf and after packing all those rounds and then seting them up on shelves my hands would be stained black and i decided i dident want that junk in my rifle. it was always cheep and i did hear it was a pertty accurite round but i guess i never bought wolf for them same reson i drive a chevy instead of a toyota.  i always buy remignton white box and for the first time in my life i actually broke down and bought a box of black hills because i was so pissed about the jump in ammo prices. im not really sure why i avoided wolf ammo i guess i deident wanna take any chances with a rifle i spend 800 hard earned dollars on only to buy bargin basement ammo to shoot out of it. that dident make sense to me somehow.  i always keep my rifle very clean so i guess wolf wouldent be much of a cleaning problem but id rather avoid any more malfunctions if i can help it. i picked up a few new D&L 20 round mags from 44mag.com so i guess ill have to watch for their feeding problems too.  thx for the heads up guys. 
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Big +1 right there. I've had friends that have bought new mags and never had a problem, but I always seem to have to make a little adjustment every once in a while on new ones. The sharp burrs on the bottom of the feed lips can make a fellow want to pull his hair and create new 4 letter words. I keep a couple of small files in the tool bag just for this. Also I've never had any real problems with Wolf. My Colt will gobble it up as fast as I can feed it. As a matter of fact I've used it on a lot of coyotes and hogs, and it knocks 'em down just like anything else (62gr HP). Now, I'm not a competition match shooter. If I was I'd be buying match ammo. The mags (any brand) are a much weaker link than the ammo. Just my .02 
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BravoMan5632 have a look at these two threads. Just my personal fun time with WOLF Ammo. WOLF .233 Rem 62 GR. Copper FMJ - Polymer coating ? (Range Report Added) WOLF 62 Grain Copper FMJ Steel Case - At The Range Some advice "make up your own mind and forget what people tell you" Now if you want to stay away from steel case then Academy Sports will sell you the Monarch Green Box for $3.86. See This Link... Hope this helps... |
thx frag... i got a box of black hills 62gr im gonna try out tomorrow, if my AR-180Bravo likes it maybe ill have to get more. i havent seen any wolf sold latly but if i do ill definatally have to pick up a few boxes.
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Thanks for the input. I realized it is due to the brand new DSA/D+H mags with the magpul followers and SS springs. I tried the 55gr HP with some old beater magsand it worked flawlessly. So much for these mags which are advertised on the DSA website as "high reliablity" . Do you recommend that I file the inner parts of the feelips with a file? JMN69 |
Naw - I'd run a couple mags worth and see if they work out. Otherwise - you can use some medium grit sandpaper to knock down the burred edge. |
The "small files" I keep for the minor burrs on new feed lips are the same small ones my g/f uses on her finger nails. Not the kind you use to sharpen an axe. LOL I used to use sandpaper, but if the burrs were really sharp, they'ed cut through the paper and cut my finger. |
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I went to the range today and my bravo worked great at first... then it built up a good layer of carbon and brass dust then it started catching empty cases in the bolt before it could close. so... i came home... threw jarhead in my DVD player and sat down for a good 2 hour strip and oil session. i tested the extractor afterwords with a few 5.56 snapp caps and a fresh D&H mag with a magpull follower and it spit out every round just fine.
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Jarhead ?!?!?!? When I clean my AR its always "Debby Does Dallas" except when I'm beat then it's "Missy Does Midland". Sheessshhh maybe that's why my gun is allways dirty 
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Well considering you have only been a member since April, it doesn't suprise me you aren't up to speed....but thats no excuse to be a dick. How ironic, you bash me for reccomending Wolf as practice ammunition but openly proclaim your love for the AR180B. Wolf originally got a bad wrap because of the laquer they used to seal the cartridges would melt off and cause damage to AR's. Wolf has long since changed to a polymer coating and the problem has been solved. There are guys on this site who shoot nothing but Wolf through thier AR's who have never had a single issue. I have fired tens of thousands of rounds of Wolf 9mm, .45 ACP, 12 gauge, 5.45x39,7.62x39,7.62x51, 7.62x54R and .223 and I have had excellent luck. In my experience Wolf has been economical and extremely reliable practice ammunition. I haven't found it to be dirtier or less accurate than any other types of practice ammunition, depending on the weapons system. Recently, a gun rag*can't recall which one* was testing a handgun and Wolf shot the tightest groups. Go figure.People who bash Wolf clearly aren't familiar with all the facts. Though a guy who admits to loving AR180B's can't be taken to seriously....
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d00d... what the funk is ur problem wyno??? at no time in my posts did i even attempt to bash u personally and u come back callin me a dick?? WTF mate?? all i said was ive heard nothin but bad stuff about wolf ammo, i even said ive never used it personally. maybe u should finish reading before u start being a dick urself. ur takin my negitive secound hand comments about wolf ammo like they are personal attacks. and whart the fuck is ur problem with the ar-180B??? its a fine rifle and i guarentee mine will out shoot any ar-15 u got asshole. so... if u got something negitive to say about the bravo u can stick it in your ear. i can find a half dozen ppl here who also say they love theirs more than any ar-15.  and for the record, i did finally shoot a handfull of wolf, an ar-15 user sitting next to me let me borrow a mag full and i wasent too impressed. it shot fine i guess but ive never seen so much carbon build up on my extractor sence ive owned the rifle. plus he got a wofl steel case stuck in his chamber and had to come to me to borrow a stiff cleaning rod to unjam it. that happend to him twice using wolf rounds that day so he finnaly gave up and fired a few remington shells outa my ar-180b and he said he lived it. so...
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| My Olympic 2005 Shorty loves the Wolf 55 and 62 grain POlymer FMJ as does my PreBan Norinco 84s AK which Is even More accruate than my AR with theWolf! Believe it or not! I have fried a lot a Wolf in my Olympic and Norinco 84S wiht no problems. But DID have problems with Wolf in my postban Bushmaster which shot everything else in 223. Bushmaster was traded for aPreban Unfired Norinco Underfolder which was a good deal for me as the Norinco is a 1100.00 rifle. |
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