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Posted: 5/27/2006 6:54:45 AM EDT
| Theres a good write up in combat arms / G&A |
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Wolf and "combat arms". Talk about an oxymoron.... Who in their right ming would trust anything made by Wolf for self-defense??? Why are they wasting time trying to make all this fancy ammo when there is a huge demand for good, cheap, brass cased plinking ammo??? |
 You DO know that wolf doesnt make any ammo??? They are an importer, and have a wide range of ammunition from different locations all over the world.
You DO know Wolf *imports* cheap brass cased plinking ammo, that is also M193 spec? And that as an importer, they sell to all kinds of markets, from uber cheap Russian steel cased blasting ammo, to fringe high end specialty ammo, to really good .22LR. All from different plants and companies. |
Just becuase your prissy AR-shiteen can't use mil spec steel case that no reason to shit on the company of wolf. They Not only went out of thier way to improve their stuff as per customer feed back byt they also now sell other stuff as well besides russian steel case. They changed the laquer to a much better drying polymer base and elminated the red seal becuase it was gunking up the chambers (of AR-15's only). I've used thier stuff in 9mm, 7.62mm etc. without fail. belive me it's not the ammo, it's the gun. Is it the best shit mankind ever made? no. But for the price it's good. Also look at their catalog now, they also import stuff from Germany and Yugoslavia in brass case that is excellent. Their "match .22" is probably the best for the price. P.S. As per posting rules i have to inform you that I am an Ex-KGB agent who now works the private sector and has been hired to boost the image of all CIS ammunition. 
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Let's be fair:
LOTS of AR's wont run on Wolf Russian steel cased .223, because of the *fact* it is lower pressure and wont reliably cycle all AR actions out there.... so dont act like the gun is broke if it wont shoot ammo it wasnt designed for.
 What "mil spec" are you referring to?
THUS FAR - the brass cased M193 is FAR from "excellent". They have had burn rate and serious dangerous overpressure problems with this ammo.... and have had to accept a lot of returns. But, they have always made it right and I am sure will work out the bugs. But again, far from "excellent" at this stage. |
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Yes, I know Wolf is not the manufacturer, but that doesnt change my statement. Is anyone actaully going to use "Wolf" (PP) M193 as self defense or duty ammo, or even the 75g stuff, when there is high quality American made TAP around? Seriuosly, Wolf should stick to the cheap plinking ammo market. They will never compete with first rate American made ammunition for serious use. The PP M193 is higher in price than it needs to be for plinking ammo because of their attempt to make it to M193 specs. This is a uselss cost increase b/c I don't see many people at all using it for duty ammo. Even if it ran better than it is, would you trust ammo made in Serbia with your life??? WOLF: Just give us cheap, no-frills .223 that works pretty reliably and is brass cased!!! Shoot for $160/case or so and you would dominate the practice ammuntion market in no time. |
I think some American car companies said that about Japanese cars at one time. Things change. They (Wolf) appear to be listening to the market and responding. |
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I think that any company with the right equipment and "ears" to the market can compete. It is not that hard to correct a recipe. If they hear enough about it, they can make it right, make it work, sell the s_it out of it, and make lots of $ in the process. Looks like a great biz to be in right now! CB |
Really? Cause your "statement" is that
Since Wolf doesnt make anything, this seems strange you would stand by your original statement? It sort of discounts anything else you might have an opinion on. 
Absolutely - if they can prduce high quality ammo that is cheaper than domestic TAP.
I completely disagree.... please offer some basis for your opinion.
Got any proof to back that up?
If it could prove itself, absolutely. I would trust South African, and Guatemalan with my life, since I have seen the quality and results of the ammo.
I disagree. |
| Gotta chime in here. Wolf ammo works just fine for me. I have heard stories about Wolf not cycling/short stroking and many other horror stories. I gotta say, that I have shot thousands of rounds through various bushmasters that I own with no issues at all with the exception of a minor jam. That can be expected with any rifle and ammo. My good friend also shoot a DPMS and has never had an issue either. |
| I love wolf . anyone who has shot a live animal with it knows that the bullet does not have to fragment because the animals rib cage does. I would use it for self defense. Some people act like if it ant there super dooper ati zombie round it wont kill anything. If you get shot COM with wolf 223 you will most likely die. |
I will be as soon as I stop hearing about quality problems. Heck, I've shot some of the stuff already and haven't had a single glitch in my 5.56 AK or my AR-180B. It's pretty accurate as far as M193 goes too. Why would I choose Wolf over American made high quality ammo for self defense? Because it's cheaper, that's why- significatly cheaper. My wallet has more control over when I can shoot than my time does. |
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I STILL WONDER IF P.P. M193 ammo was made for the AK platform I have great results with PP/wolf m193 its to bad about the others problems guys had with PP/wolf m193? it was the most accurate and cleanest burning M193 I ever shot in my 41 years I wonder why no RECALL since all the trouble? For now I will just shoot LCM855 |
What are we in 2nd grade now? I think most people could figure out what I meant. You don't agree that adding M193 specs to ammunition increases the cost??? I don't forsee any military or police types using any of Wolf's stuff for serious use, no matter how much their marketing people try to make it look top-quality, "tactical", etc. I guess I forgot 99.9% of people on this site live in the fantasy shtf/zombie world. You must if you would trust your life with ammunition that is any way associated with the company "Wolf", made in countries where people crap in their drinking water. |
Sorry. I have to go on what you actually say.  It is a very common misconception that Wolf makes ammo, and since the Russian Wolf is really cheap, lower velocity, low pressure, and non-fragmenting, all their other ammo is "crap" too. Your post furthers that ideology, and is misguided. Try and use the correct words, between "made" and "imported" and we wouldnt have to have these discussions. We arent mind readers. If you cant deal with that, perhaps the internet forums arent for you?
You missed my point. I will try and talk slower for ya. You stated "The PP M193 is higher in price than it needs to be for plinking ammo because of their attempt to make it to M193 specs." You see - your whole argument relies on YOUR assumption that all Wolf ammo is for plinking only. Well - the market demanded brass cased M193 spec ammo, and PP/Wolf stepped up to meet that demand. It is very simple economics, and I wont get into that here. This isnt about whether it adds costs to ensure M193 velocity, sealed cases, and primer crimps. Of course it does. But your argument is baseless, since it hanges on your idea there is no market for cheap import M193, and all Wolf imported ammo should be for plinking only. Wolf ALREADY imports cheap .223 plinking ammo - in the form of the Russian steel case ammo. You assume the market would prefer something JUST like russian steel cased ammo, only in brass cases. I asked you to back that up.... which you still fail to provide any details other than your simple supposition. 
First, The Wolf PP M193 is a new product. Second, PP has made military ammo in the past. And lastly, they arent *marketing* this stuff to the .mil and police - it is being marketed to *regular shooters* (us lowly civilians... ) I dont need some government military or donut brigade to use a specific type of ammo before I want to buy it. I am perfectly capable of using the facts to make my own decisions in this area, arent you?
Do you have any facts to back up that number, or are you talking out of yer ass again?
Your intelligence in this matter is stunning. 
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Well in that case i was NOT talking about all thier brass stuff just the stuff that i have personally fired which was 7.62 39 & .22 match, 7.62x 54r. All of those calibers i would rate as excellent for the price. Again for me the reputation that wolf got was unfair simply because it was for the .223 stuff only. So why should all their ammo get a bad rap for one caliber? If you're afraid to shoot steel case through your gun you need a tougher gun! 
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Well, this is kinda funny......so I will toss some info in here for MP906 Prvi Partizan is a major manufacturer of military ammunition. Do they make effective military grade ammunition that will kill lots and lots of people? Hmmm, why don't you ask the Bosnians or Croats. Their ammunition is used by militaries around the world. Tula Cartridge Works? They are one of the largest producers of military ammunition in the world. Ask the Chechens about their stuff. Wolf has some really interesting stuff on the horizon.....stay tuned... |
I would bet Wolf will continue to improve. I used to bash Wolf. My gun was especially picky about what would work in it. Wolf was the worst! Nothing but jams every shot. Stuck cases, feeding problems, and that damm lacquer warmed up and got stuck in the chamber. I decided never to use it again. Fast forward 6 years later. After an extractor mod I decided to try out a few different brands again. The newer Wolf Polymer grouped better than everything except the Federal and BH match ammo, not to mention not one jam up. Better than Radway, Q3131, Guat, and AE were beaten by the Wolf. |
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I have to play devils advocate here. Yea Wolf makes some good stuff. But some bad too. General consensus here is that the PP M193 isnt that great. To say "Well, it only works bad an an AR, and the AR is really picky aobut what works in it." is ludicrous. They deserve to get a bad rap for that M193 ammo. In this country its a given that M193 type ammo is primarily for an AR type rifle. If you plan on marketing M193 ammo in this country you should be sure it will work well in an AR. If it doesnt, then you deserve some bashing. |
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It is intersting how most of the comments supporting Wolf have been something like: "They are getting better" "Wolf is improving." That is because they have an earned reputation for putting out bottom-quality ammunition in the past and present. Their M193 is reportedly far from being good ammo. Their steel cased stuff is just that, steel cased. If Hesse Arms suddenly started marketing high-end "tactical" sniper rifles, would you jump on one??? |
God I get tired of all this AK vs AR crap.. the original poster does not want to know how much you love your damn AK, they are nice weapons so are AR's...... here is the original post: "Theres a good write up in combat arms / G&A" I dont see anything about AK's being able to eat the ammo better than AR's.... dont click the AR-15 tab if you do not have anything to contirbute...... |
I was one of the FIRST to order a case of NNY/PP M193 In both my CARBEANS a LMT M4 and Bushy A1 shorty #1 the ammo was Accurate than all m193 I have shot in my life #2 the cleanest of M193 of all my life #3 100 percent reliable Now if I never JOIN AR15.com I would still be BUYING the PP/NNY M193  although I found it to be OUTSTANDING M193 I ever tried COMPARED TO PMC 5.56 M193 IMI M193 XM193 Q3131 I do think that there is truth to all the BAD reports! and Im still dont truely understand how some have GREAT RESULTS while some have horrible results BUT if they do change the powder type I might buy more until now I cant wait for the 75gr MPT |
So now Yugoslavia is a 3rd World Country? Gee...that is news to me. |
You wouldn't say that if you owned a Swiss K31. Swiss surplus 7.5mm is very hard to find, and pricey too. Wolf Gold won't beat up your K31, and it offers decent accuracy, allowing you to save your GP11 for matches or w/e. |
You're right, Wolf Gold does have a lot of C&R calibers! I didn't buy any K31s or the CZ-52s because of the C&R calibers... they're either hard to find, available in limited/finite quantities, or expensive. I just hope they don't get rid of the regular Wolf line of ammo... I'm addicted to their .223 Rem, 9mm Luger, and 7.62x39
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yes massa, whatever you say massa. R.I.F - This was never an AK vs. AR thread, read it again. Yeah sure i shot steel through my AK but i also shot it through the following guns with no problems- #1 Glock 19 #2 friends 1919 LUGER! #3 Mauser 98k #4 Mosin Nagant 91/38 #4 SKS #5 Mini-14 All of these in diferent calibers AND not just Steel wolf but all Milspec steel from Romania, China, Germania, Barnaul, Albanian etc. etc. Never heard of any steel cases being a problem until the .223 was made for the AR. So is it the Steel cases or the gun? Or maybe a little bit of both? The Russkis are'nt dumb you know, they probably made .223 then tested it through AR's they had in the hundreds of rounds to see if it worked and for the most part it probably did, then they made millions of rounds that got fed through all kinds of AR with all types of makers and lengths and the problems started. Any hand loader will tell you the >223 is a tricky round to reload, combine that with the AR's complex Gas system and you got a right old mess. But at least they made the attempt and as far as i am concerned ALL their non .223 is as good as any other "budget stuff". Considering the horror stories I've heard about Indian .308 or Greek 5.56 or maine cartridge or whoever else Wolf is better and cheaper than a lot of surplus youre bound to come across. |
That's because you can't bumpfire worth a shit. Take some lessons from 
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Quite a few of my rifles wont bumpfire Wolf. Bump firing absorbs a lot of the recoil of the action in how it works, and using an underpowered ammo like Wolf makes the action short cycle when bump-firing on some rifles. That's one way I cheat. When doing my full mag dumps, I always use Q3131A or other hot M193. |
LOL. That is funny in a sick kind of way! I would be interested in the 75g from the write up. It maybe a much cheaper alternative to BH 77g. I think Wolf is working on improving their offerings. They are still going to make cheap blasting ammo in Russia. |
lets hope its cheap |
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