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Posted: 5/7/2006 9:18:22 PM EDT
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I have a newbie question here. I'm the new owner of a Bushmaster XM-15 M4 style rifle. I recently bought a large quanity of .233 ammo from someone here on this forum. All the ammo was boxed ammo, not bulk. Was an assortment of Olympic (some stuff made in Greece), Winchester (in a white box), Wolf, Winchester, South African then about 11 stripper clips with 10 rnd each on them. The 2 boxes of South African (brass shells I think) worked flawless. The 11 stripper clips worked flawless. Then we get to the Olympic crap and its JAM city. I'm talking every other round did something. Either the bolt wouldn't extract them or the bolt wouldn't close all the way. If the extractor wouldn't extract, I had to run a cleaning rod down the barrel and wack the little suckers out. If the bolt wouldnt close, it was jammed in the almost closed position but still wouldn't budge when I try to pull it back. Again, out came the cleaning rod and I would have to run it down the barrel, unlock the cocking handle then wack the cleaning rod to knock the live shells that wouldn't chamber out of the gun. The shells were non damaged and the bullets were straight. I figured it was just this ammo because if I switch over to some blue box Silver Bear crap from Russia, it feeds and extracts 100% flawless. After 2 days and 400 rounds of the Olympic bullshit and OVER 150 failed to extract or failed to chamber all the way (btw the foreware assist didn't work), the shit was gone. Then I move on to the Winchester stuff thinking yeah this is going to be good ammo, nope SAME issue. Now before someone says replace the extractor, clean the gun, check the extractor spring etc, with those cheap ass poly coated WOLF rounds or the zinc plated Silver Bear shit from Russia, I get 99.999% feed and extraction. Out of 600 rounds of those 2 brands, I got maybe 2 failed to extracts and or misfeeds. I've completed ripped the gun down, cleaned it, oiled it with Gunslick and then I tried CLP, taken it to a friend who happened to be a gun dealer and just got back from Iraq not to long ago and knows M4/M16's well and he has found the gun to be mechanically fine. Any thoughts? At this point only brass shelled ammo causes this problem. The WOLF poly coated rounds and Silver Bear zinc plated ammo again works flawless. Anything brass seems to lock my gun up about 40~50% of the time. My friend who just got back from Iraq even gave me new mags he brought back etc, nothing helps. I'd like my buddy I keep speaking of to come out and shoot it but he hasn't had time with work and military shit going on. ANY thoughts would be great. I don't even know where to start. For right now, I guess I stick with WOLF and Silver Bear. |
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Your new rifle is fine. Olympic has a well earned reputation for being some of the worst .223 ammo available. It should be avoided at all cost. If it is cheap, foreign and works, then it is not crap ammo. It is a bit unusual for the Winchester to not work in a Bushmaster. My Bushy has fired everything I have fed it with only a few minor issues. Sometimes guns are just a picky. Find out what works in yours and shoot it. Sarge |
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Thanks sgtmike and _DR.. I guess I'll just stick with the cheap WOLF and Silver Bear. Yeah, I had figured it was the Oympic until the Winchester has the same issues but maybe it was just a fluke. Thanks.
I prefer jam, thanks for taking the time to post. It was so helpful. |
Kdoggy, While Wolf and Silver Bear likely won't harm your rifle, you may still expect a few FTEs with them as Wolf is generally underpowered, and has been known to stick in the chamber. Shoot it if you want, on't blame the rifle if your shoot this russian stuff and it occasionally malfuctions. |
Get the Wolf Polyformance stuff. I dont think you will be dissapointed. My Bushy has NEVER malfunctioned with Wolf. I have had more issues with XM193 and Q3131 than with Wolf. Its not unusual for a rifle to have teething problems at first, it just needs to be broken in 
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kdoggy; Your rifle is fine - Waste olympic downrange, to get rid of it, I know it is a pain, it will help in breaking period. We have used WOLF poly and old laquer type with hardly any issues on M16's and Ar15's our group has. New preference goes to Poly when it become available. We stayed away from WOLF on HK USP .45 but with poly, we began without any issues, even under suppressed situations. It saves mula. While you did not have issues on SA, we have had some, so we reserve those for G36 and Augs, I am glad it worked fine on yours. The SA worked fine on the 20 inch AR15 but have not tried many rounds. We could usually feed a mag or so before issues. It is nice ammo to burn for us on other guns though. You find the AE .223, Guatemala IMG, XM193, and the some other commerial Remington UMC .223 will work good. I am suprised Winchester white box did not work out - What type was it off ? Care to give us the Ammo type information (numbers on it ?) - Was it Win, USA type - Avoid the others without checking on this site if you can. hoping it was not the Q3131 oe Q3131A. While I have had RAdway ammo, I have not hade the pleasure of trying some out yet that came in 10 rnd loaded clips. The Wolf laquer has gone down range plenty of time via the Beta drums on Bushmaster and Colt M16 without an issues. While others have issues with case getting stuck, we have had non. Welcome to AR15 fun ... hopefully you might also get an AK74/47 to enjoy as well, once the ammo becomes available. 2 cents worth, hopefully.  |
That's been my experience with Wolf, too. The ONLY time I had an issue with Wolf was after installing a WOLFF xtra power recoil spring. I would get some short-stroking with it installed. With a standard recoil spring, no problems. |
If you arent interested in learning the correct terminology, why are you here? |
I prefer FTE/FTF, it's much more specific. |
Good Question. 
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And even those are often misunderstood. I like to spell it out. Fail to extract - case is left in the chamber, such as a stuck case, or partially left in the chamber, extractor slipped off the rim. Fail to eject - case is extracted from the chamber, but was not ejected from the upper receiver, resulting in a mis/double feed. Fail to feed - all kinds of sub-categories, including failure to strip from mag, hung up on feedramp, doublefeed cause by above, jamming round into the barrel extension, failure to fully chamber the round, etc..etc... Fail to fire - bolt closed and locked, trigger pulled, no boom. |
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fed underneath and you can't remove the magazine or get the casing out easily. It a jam to me and I am a retired LE firearms instructor and got dumped on because I used that term. Sorry but thats what it was called at our Criminal Justice Academy. I was watching probably the discovery channel the other day and they had military personnel and firearm developers and they used the term JAM over and over.JRandyH |
When I was an Infantryman, we officially called it a "Stoppage" or simply "failure". But you will find that soldiers often do use the term "jammed" frequently. |
That is a doublefeed.
Which is fine.... however, "jam" is a general, non-technical term for pretty much ANY malfunction.... and is extremely non-descriptive. It is very commonly used in the lay-shooters world. It isnt "wrong" to use the term, it is just kinda pointless, because it doesn tell the reader anything about what really happened.
I really could care less about what the Discovery Channel shows.... or how other people use overly simplistic terms. Seriously, nothing to get dogmatic about.... there is just better terminology to use than "jam" and that is why it is often pointed out when someone uses it. Often like when someone uses the term "clip". We all know what you mean, but it just screams that you probably dont have a clue. |
I agree and very well put. I was just taught how to clear "jams" and "stovepipes" when in auto pistol instructor school. JRandyH |
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