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Posted: 6/28/2005 6:06:30 PM EDT
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i've recently seen offered (online collector auction) a 55-grain all-tungsten bullet 5.56 round from Lake City which were supposedly experimental military rounds. the bullets appeared to have no outer jacket, are a charcoal-gray colour and the headstamps ranged from LC-87 to LC-95. does anyone have any idea what these are, ie: nomenclature or specs? not only scanned the 'Oracle but the entire web and found no info. |
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Hoe this helps, here are a few links I found using google. http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/smallarms/Pizza.pdf (21 page adobe file, very good reading) http://www.familiesagainstcancer.org/?id=65 http://www.ausa.org/www/armymag.nsf/0/C29B7A7BA265E77385256B9E00717219?OpenDocument http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/infantry/rifle/556mm_ammo.html I did the search on "5.56 tungsten ammo" and found quite a few matches. |
Made them hot...good reading. That was the "Green Ammo" program. Seems like someone thought all that lead was an environmental "hazard". Like the billions of rounds in existing ranges were... Tungsten is a vital strategic material. It is stupid to use it for small arms ammunition. |
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thanks for the efforts you guys, +1 for Google i guess, i usually use MSN and always just got the usual "standard nomenclature" lists, or maybe if a result just said "green ammunition" i skipped it thinking it was an article on ss109, heh.. kind of like FN's labelling of some - but not all - of its ss192 5.7 ammo with the word "green" on the box but having neither green tips nor being lead free while none of their ss195 LF ammo is labelled green. anyway thanks again, i'm setting out to read the articles you've linked right now.. |
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ok, well! good reading for sure, but still not what these bullets are. received the following response this morning from Woodin which seems to be similar to what we've got here, the only divergence from Woodin's description is that the bullets in question have brass primers, not nickel. here's what they said: "The "green" ammunition program was started a few years ago to remove lead and lead alloys from bullet slugs to reduce the possibility of training range contamination. However, these rounds have a standard GM or GMCS FMJ and have the same outer appearance as standard ball M193 or M855 Ball rounds. The rounds that you describe appear to be something different--perhaps reloads using LCAAP cases? As an example, Black Hills Ammunition Co. has for a number of years reloaded LC cases with a "Moly" plated bullet which has a dark-gray finish. These reloads can be readily identified by the primer, which is usually nickel plated and has no visible waterproofing sealant. Rounds originally loaded at LCAAP will have a brass primer with purple or red sealant. Please check the primers on the rounds you describe, because LC cases with headstamp dates ranging from 86 to 98 have been noted being reloaded by Black Hills Ammunition Co. and perhaps other commercial reloaders." |
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the auction was actually brought to my attention by a collector friend who went ahead and got a few (as in 3) and i don't remember the site. it was an obscure one, not GA or GB. not Auction Arms either, but i'll see if i can get some pics. might not be right away but we're both of us stumped and wanting more info so i'm sure he won't mind me posting some, just have to wait on them. here's a question: those Moly-coated Black Hills reloads mentioned above would probably be lead, yes? and if so then a magnet wouldn't stick to them. but magnets stick to these, so there is every reason to believe they are what they're purported to be (some kind of experimental milsurp). we'd just like to know where they came from, what project they were part of, their specs, etc. it's cool to have a rarity but much more fun when you know the history behind it. BTW this is my first posting here and hope this isn't too off-topic. i noticed the forum was for "commerically loaded" ammo and this stuff's who-knows-what but that's what we're trying to find out.. |
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Somebody out there has been moly-coating M855 rounds and passing them off as AP ammo. Also, Tungsten is not magnetic, AFAIK. If this is what you're talking about, it's definitely Moly'd M855/SS109. www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?item=33889302 And don't forget P.T. Barnham. |
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this isn't the auction he got them from, and i don't think it came from Ohio, but this is *exactly* what the rounds look like. exactly. and the brass does look fired, too. so Tungsten's not magnetic, hmm? i never knew that and haven't infact ever come across any tungsten bullets before but this stuff sticks like glue and the "story" behind them is exactly what is being said in this ad. i'd like to cut one open just to put the question to rest if he'll let me. this is driving me nuts but it sounds like you've just solved the riddle, Brouhaha.. i found it hard to swallow simply for the fact that geniuine AP .223 is verboten if i'm not mistaken but i also know that sometimes one-off collector stuff is exempt so thought maybe this might have fallen into that category. the guy on GA, though, would probably be asking for trouble if the ammo was what he said it was. thanks for the heads-up.. |
Try this link and let us know if this is the ammo in question that you describe in this thread. http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m993.htm |
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i've never seen M995 for sale and if that's what it was it would probably fetch more money. earlier in this thread Brouhaha posted a link to an auction of it, which has pics of it. he thinks it's moly-coated M855 being passed off as something else and i'm inclined to agree. i've found someone who's willing to pull one, weigh it and cut it open for me. this will tell the tale and when i get the results i'll post the pics and info just to put the issue to rest. i have to mail it off so it'll take a couple weeks but we'll have the answer. |
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just got the results, no pics, but it's definitely M855. it's 62 grams, not the 55 i was told, and the core weighs and is shaped identical to ss109 core (ie: it *is* that core) and fits right into a dissected control sample of M855. mystery solved, and thanks to Brouhaha for the heads up.. gotta go, i have a Circus to attend, lol.. |
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