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Posted: 7/11/2004 5:25:34 AM EDT
| Wouldn't it cost less to buy the good stuff like Q3131A or XM193 and save the brass to reload than to keep buying wolf which you can't reload(or can you reload it?). I'm just curious about this, since I don't reload...atleast not yet. |
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Yes, you can load M193-spec ammo for slightly less than it costs to shoot Wolf. However.... You have to factor in the cost for the equipment as well. That's going to require quite a few reloadings before you've recouperated the costs. That's a one time expense only, so the decision is yours. Second is the time involved to reload 1000 rounds. You have to remove the primer pocket crimp. Tumble the cases. Lube, resize and deprime. Trim cases. Chamfer/debur case mouth. Clean lube off of cases. Charge cases with powder and finally seat bullet. Reloadig is a labor of love. It can be kind of fun, but I've never reloaded quantities like that though. I do 45ACP on my Dillon, and hunting ammo on a single stage press. Only you can answer how much your time is worth. Finally, there's the concern about making a mistake when loading, which can become very costly. Granted - there's lots of people who do reload and never make a mistake, but you're less likely to encounter damaging results from improperly loaded ammo when you're buying factory stuff - simply because commercial machines are very reliable. I've made the decision to buy cheap ammo. If Wolf ever gets to a point where it's expensive too, I'll reconsider. One thing I've though about is to hand load SHTF ammo - lower quantities than for plinking, say a couple of hundred rounds. Heavy OTM type bullets. The ammo for that is very expensive to buy and really makes reloading financially feasible. |
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Well actually I would rather just buy 5.56 than reload it. Due to the case lube etc. involved with reloading rifle shells it is just a pain to do. OTOH I have everything to reload every caliber I shoot sometimes it is cheaper to buy bulk ammo than to reload. I would rather buy the brass case ammo in any event and have the ability to reload it at some point rather than use the throw away Wolf. I have shot over 3000 rounds of Wolf in various rifles and I would much rather have XM193 or Q3131A than Wolf. Your mileage may vary. I have not tried the new crop of Wolf but the last I used was junk IMHO. Some folks use it exclusively, I have one rifle that only likes XM193/XM855 or Q3131A and most others will short stroke it. I save all of my brass and I buy reclaimed projectiles I have several thousand ss109 and M856 bullets and several thousand cases. |
| The savings that I have found in reloading my own ammo is that I can reload better quality ammo cheaper than what I can buy off the shelf. I can also tailor my reloads to unlock the accuracy potential of my firearms. If you were to count the labor invested as well as the equipment and components needed it would take awhile to recoup your initial investment if you were only to reload blasting ammo. Reloading can be an addictive hobby similar to the BRD. |
------------------------ If buying Wolf ammo means keeping a Russian employed and "IN" Russia, I'll continue to buy it rather than having them come here and live off my tax dollars. The Northeast is being inundated with them. There is a long enough chain of American financial benefit in the Wolf ammo import process to shed any guilt about buying a foreign product. Don't single out Wolf ammo as being a sole imposer of your guilt. You'd be hard pressed to find very many products that are NOT produced overseas. Take a look around next time you go for a drive and look at the millions of dollars worth of automobiles on the roads that were made overseas. |
| Keep in mind that one of the big sources of savings from reloading is the ability to reuse brass. If you're doing a lot of stationary shooting at a range, this isn't much of a problem. If your shooting involves a lot of outdoor dynamic activity, it's going to be pretty tough to track down your brass after you've fired 100 rounds while moving through a realtively large area. Just my 2 cents... |
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The last time I reloaded for .223 was over 10 years ago. At that time, Lee had a lube that would dry on the case and not breakdown powder or primer. This made volume loading on my Dillon 550B much easier. I also learned that it really wasn't necessary to ream the primer pocket of military brass. Still, you do have issues concerning case length and wear. It took me on average about 1 hour to load 150-200 rounds on the 550B. That was when everything was working well. At best, I'd be able to do 1000 rounds in 5 hours. I figured it out the other day and the cost of bullets, primers, and powder for 1000 rounds was going to run about $85 if I recall correctly. I currently make about $28 an hour as an IT professional. So I do the math (5 x $28) + $85 = $225. I can shoot new XM193 for less than that. My time is worth something when I'm reloading. If it's something I want to do and will enjoy, then the relative cost goes down. Otherwise, new ammo is more cost effective whether it's Wolf brand or Federal XM193. However, to beat the cost of Wolf ammo the enjoyment of reloading has to be *really* high. I can't honestly say I've had *that* much fun reloading. |
------------------------------------------------------- I guess thats why they put BRASS pistons and rings in automobile engines cranking at 3000 rpms or higher huh? NOT! God please make it stop!!!! Have you any idea how much harder a chamber, a bolt, an extractor, a firing pin, are compared to a steel casing of a round of Wolf ammo? MAGNITUDES HARDER! There is no "steel on steel" in the gun. Its polymer against steel, just like its a micro thin film of oil against steel in an auto engine operating at extreme temperatures and torques. You couldn't fire enough Wolf ammo in your lifetime to produce significant wear on a gun if you tried. Christ....when is this bullshit going to end? A Wolf case is less than 2 points harder than a piece of cartridge brass on a Rockwell scale....AND its coated with a modern polymer that provides lubrication and rust protection. there is NO....repeat NO contact of steel on steel using Wolf ammo. Why do people insist on perpetuating this line of BS? |
Indeed, my reloads may be more accurate (I've never compared them to any commercial ammo). But I'm not shooting PD's at 300 yards or more. I'm trying to place rounds CM on a human silouette at 100 meters. My experience with Wolf and XM193 indicate they do that just fine. Reloading is a labor of love. I will not argue it's cost effectiveness in generic terms, as that is why I started in the first place (long before Wolf ammo became available). I will also admit it can be enjoyable. But whether or not it is totally cost effective is an individual matter. For me, at this time, I rather spend the time with my grandsons or even shooting, rather than reloading. However, I ain't sellin' that 550B, either. 
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How much more accurate is it, and how accurate does it have to be for plinking? Psst: Check the ammuition review poll - Wolf is rated higher than UMC. |
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I reload .308 for my target rifle (modified Remington 700VS), which I can shoot sub MOA group all day (best group to date, .25MOA at 100 yrds). In that case, I find reloading does worth my time. About Wolf... Well, that's a different story. I shoot XM193 in my AR, understanding that there used to be reliability/quality issues with Wolf, and the fact that I live in Kaliban, I really can't afford to shoot anything that would possibly go KABOOM in my AR which may screw up my gun, because I can't buy another one to replace it  For those who live in free states, I envy you for ability to buy new stuff in case anything really go wrong, but that's not my scenario here. To me, mass reloading M193 alike for plinking takes too much time for too little enjoyment, I will stick with XM193/Q3131, but stay away from Wolf till I can move to free states.
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If you think other types of ammo can't cause a KB then you may be in for a suprise. |
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I just love this site! So many interesting subjucts being discussed here. I have been reloading for 35yrs. Back in my salad days, the only way for me to shoot in any quanity was to reload. Today I have a few firearms that I have to reload. Anybody buy any factory .416 Rigby cartridges lately? You can buy a lot of 5.56 for what one box of 20 .416's will cost you. How about 9.3 x62mm....or 577-450 Martini-Henrys. All that being said, there are some rifles I seldom reload. I don't reload for my Maadi AKM. Just shoot that nasty Russki stuff. Works quite well as a matter of fact. Same with my Hi-Power. However since I am an inveterate brass scrounger, I am of two minds about reloading for my AR. For serious work I am stocking up on Q3131a as it shoots better than XM193 in my rifle. My reloads for the rifle shoot as well as the Win. I use the reloads for practice as I don't care if I find them all. I have yet to chronograph my reloads but will do so in the future. So if my reloads velocitate the same as Q3131a, other than the fragmentation effect, what's the difference for practice sessions. IMHO, nada. So when you get down to the nuts and bolts of the matter, it is only a question of your personal preferences. Winter is when I do most of my reloading. Gets a little chilly in Pa. in the winter so I don't get out quite as often as I would like. So reloading is a way to spend some productive time doing something other than watching the crap on TV. Snowing outside, well it's down to the basement, put a CD in the player and reload. BTW, factory ammo can give you some surprises too. Sometimes I carry a little Kel-tec 32. Generally use Federals in it. Was loading a mag one doy. I always check the rounds before loading the mag. Well, to my surprise there was a real custom round there. The primer was seated sideways in the primer pocket. I contacted Federal about it and they sent me a new box of Hydoshocks free of charge. The lesson...no matter what manufacturer, always check the ammo you are using to keep your butt in one piece. |
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